IAP Political Forum

I favor public education but I am hoping with the advent of Charter schools, public schools will clean up their act. It may take awhile and it may be painful but public education is horrible in some areas. I am impressed with Elementary schools for the most part they have really turned up pace since I was a kid. My daughter can read much better in second grade and I could in the 5th grade, But High School seems to be lacking. They don't seem to push the kids anymore(of course this is only referring to the schools I see). A real lack of any higher math beyond algebra, their US history is abysmal no western civ or eastern civ at all. And good lab science like Biology and Chemistry are the same things I did in middle school. English and Literature seem to be OK but seem to emphasize more contemporary writings and not so many of the classics. Lets not even get into electives like basic music theory and art(they should at least teach different kinds of art styles).
If I was education king I would require the following:
Maths: Algebra 1 & 2, Trig, Geometry, Trigonometry, Calculus
History: US History. Western Civ, Eastern Civ
Science:Biology, Chemistry, Physics(all lab sciences)
Languages: 2 years of any 2 consecutive but must have at least 3 years of any.
English/Literature: American lit, English lit, Foreign Lit(a collection of classical literature translated to english(i.e the great russian authors, maybe sections of the Koran,Epic of gilgamesh etc) feel free to add because I am always looking for some good reads.
Health and Personal Finance-I can stress personal finance enough credit score mortgage type etc kids get screwed by not knowing this information and it takes them 10 years to get rid of negatives on their credit reports and we could have avoided this whole housing mess.
Music/Art appreciation- At least a half a year of each detailing basic music theory and instrument types, As well as a look into some of the more famous composer and musicians past and present(Jazz, blues, Classical, Maybe even early rock), As well as the same format for art and artists.
Computer Science(1 year)-I am almost hesitant to put this on here. But Kids need to learn that the internet wasn't created for myspace and get a basic grasp of the protocols and languages used that brought the internet together.

I realize that sounds like a tough schedule but the responsibility of our public schools should be to educate our children for anything they may encounter in life, I don't expect all kids to be scientist or mathematicians but they need exposer to all these things to be a well rounded adult. I would almost add in a politics and media class to look at varying views of the same issues and how information is presented to us from the media and maybe tack on a look at advertisement. 

A fine curriculum indeed.  Quite rigorous but I am sure many prestigious private schools offer it.

Would physical education be included with health? Physical education is important and should be included.

Why is physical education important? Do kids really need to know how to play wiffle ball?

So we don't have obese scholars. 

Kids need to learn how to exercise their body, learn proper nutrition and general leisure activities that are healthy...like wiffleball.  What do you got against The Whiff?

That's the problem every public school should offer it.

Regarding PE
I agree I would add PE to that list. There is so much junk science out there regarding diet and exercise a good exposure to a variety of sports. Especially cardio and weight training(bulk vs. strength vs. enduarance). I would even go so far as to make it 3 days a week.

Thief, that seems to be quite a fine curriculum. To what extent are these being taught in average public schools?

In my opinion history, literature, the social sciences, and economics are very important.

1. The cirriculum as stated above is fine for someone headed to a collegiate environment but lets face it, not every child is headed to college and that is something that as a society we should reognize and try to chenge in our thought patterns. Just becuase someone did NOT go to college does not mean they are stupid or even garentee they will not make good money.

I know for a fact that there are manifacturing companies that are wanting for good manchinists here in the KC Metro area. Several of the companies that service my site have menitoned if I know anyone, send them thier way. The problem is that too many kids are getting pigeon wholed into the college mold and forced by thier parents to go someplace where they are set up for at best mediocrity and at worst. failure. Many times, once that child has experienced that failure it sets into thier outlook on life and sours them to trying.

While if at the saame time, we had reconigzed that this child has strong apptitude in "X" but lacks the mental discipline to be succeful in college they could have been steared towards something more suited to them and that would have benefited soiciety.

2. PE is fine as long as it is not forced and is not graded. I have heard of entirely too many kids screwed over by some vindictive, muscle brained PE teacher.

My one main gripe...we should have year round education except for farming communities.

The cooling bills in summer in much of the coutry would be outrageous, heating in Winter is bad enough

I agreed with you until this point.

The kids who fail gym are the ones who:
A) Skip Class
B) Simply don't dress for gym

I've been to numerous school districts, both private and public. As long as you dress for gym you'll pass.

And I say PE should infact be required, but it should be a lot more intensive than what it is now.

And participate.  As long as you are not graded for making layups.  Although I don't know how anyone can't make a layup but low and behold I have been surprised.  Some kids can't even hold a basketball.

Right. I've never met a gym teacher that graded skill. They grade you on effort.

I don't care how horrible you are at sports, everyone can atleast put forth some effort. And if kids actually try in somewhat of an intensive class, they will actually see big physical changes. I've seen it happen.

Most kids don't dress or don't try because they feel awkward and embarrassed that they suck. It's not like English, where you're either trying or being lazy.

If you suck at a certain sport, you play with the other kids who suck. That's what I did for basketball in the winter. But hey, when spring came and they did soccer, ultimate frisbee, etc I'd just go join the elite games. That's what you gotta do man. It doesn't take a braniac to figure that one out.

Play in the elite games if you're skilled. Play in the bad games if you're bad. Then it all works out.

For a pimple-riddled kid who has no friends and can't play any sports, it doesn't resonate.

I'm sure they can excel at atleast one thing. One of my mates was horrible at all of the main sports. But when they pulled out the ping pong tables, he was #1 (and I hate to do the stereotype, but yes he was asian lol).

And even if you are utterly horrible, they grade on effort as I said. So skills don't really matter.

I don't know what to say about this.  Should we accommodate them and make life all fluffy so that their feelings are cared for or show it to them like it is...life is a bitch and then you die.

And then they shoot up the school...

Then again, didn't the boomer's go through the non-PC gym class, in which dodge ball was the game of social separation and identity?  Last time I heard they didn't go shooting up schools.

It's a shame they got rid of dodge ball after elementary school. Good times, good times.

Dodge ball is necessary for finding ones own identity.   No one learns from themselves more than having to face line drive balls coming at you from every angle.   And then having the opportunity to return the favor.  :police:

I'm saying that PE is worthless. If you're just basing it on effort, and kids don't give effort because they feel uncomfortable, then a kid gets a bad grade for being socially awkward.

Sorry, I don't find "uncomfortable" as an excuse for lack of effort.

OK, then I'll draw it out for you.

A kid, with no friends, who feels awkward around others, shakes every day before 4th period because that's when gym class starts. Every time he tries to muster up the courage to actually play, he just ends up sitting still in the corner, not doing anything. Grades, come out, he has a D in gym, and his father tells him to get a better grade. All of this makes him feel even worse about himself, drawing him further away from ever participating, and making him even more of an outcast.

All so we can teach kids how to play ping-pong.

I disagree to an extent. Kids who think they may not be college bound in high school may change their mind later in life, and regardless if they go to college or not a well rounded high school education will help them in life even if it has no immediate or obvious benefits.

On a more global note, I hate being know as a nation of idiots. That people of other countries call into question our IQ's and education, It wouldn't have happened 40 years ago, we have let ourselves go and we need as a nation to get back on track.

And I disagree. I think PE should be an elective actually. HEALTH CLASS, now thats different. Teach basic or even advanced nutrition and such.

Some kids are NEVER comfortable dressing out, infact some of the brightest minds of tomorrow fall into this bracket. Don't punish them because they ared not athletic.

I think the secret is letting kids decide (say, as Juniors), what sort of curriculum they want.  The biggest problem I remember in high school is that I didn't really have a desire to learn.  Nothing really kept my interest, and I'm sure that hasn't changed for kids now.

I have proposed that a "written-in-stone" curriculum is good for the first two years of high school, and then when students start their Junior years, they have a choice of what to "Specialize" in.  It is almost like universities where you do general studies for the first two years and then major in something for your last two or three years.

So, you could have the first two years doing general studies (two english, two math, two history, etc.) and then as a Junior, you choose a specialization in one of the following (for example):

Science and Engineering
Linguistics and Cultural Studies
General Studies

Obviously, depending on money, you could break this up further and do a better job of "specializing" in a particular area.

So, for the Science and Engineering (S&E) student, you may get the following schedule:

Junior
  1)  Computer programming
  2)  Calculus I
  3)  Chemistry
  4)  Discrete Mathmatics
  5)  Electronics
  6)  American History
  7)  Any Elective (music, art, PE, etc)
  8)  Any Elective (could be another technical course, or something else)

Senior
  1)  Calculus-based physics
  2)  Calculus II
  3)  Statics and Dynamics (fundamental mechanical engineering)
  4)  Technical writing
  5)  Intro to Computer Science
  6)  European History
  7)  Technical Elective (could be something in biological sciences or another math course)
  8)  Any Non-technical elective (music, art, language, history, anything)

Obviously, the linguistics and cultural studies kids would be heavy on the literature, history, and foriegn language.  But it is important to note that they wont escape some math and science just as S&E kids won't escape some history and literature. 

It would be tough to pull off as you would need teachers that could actually teach those subjects.  But if at Graduation these kids received diplomas and certificates in their "major" areas, I think that would get a lot more kids excited about learning.  I know I would have been all about the science and engineering path, and would have had a much better start once I started college.

Hate to burst anyones bubbles as I WISH these plans could be implemented. 

But there is that rotten thing called NCLB...

Switch around programming and comp sci......

Agreed fully.

A well rounded education is fine and I agree with your statement. What I am refering to is the requirement for students to take Math and English every year in High school. Leading the students to take whats is esentially the SAME CLASS 3 or 4 years running. If they haven'g moved upto high end math by Sophmore year, they aren;t going to. That time would be better spent in something that will benefit the child more.

Your reference to stupidity is actually about kids learning basic things. I have a friend who is a teacher who has students who graduate high school and don't know how to count out change. Tell time on a non-digital clock face. Balance a check book.

You want to raise the acedemic excelence, I just want to see them come out of high skrewl (Ihate using a Rushism but it is SO appropriate) with the basic skills to survive.

Puplic education can be challenging if your up for the task.
Exp: heres my junoir schedule:

Ap Bio
Ap Us History
Ap Lit. and Comp.
Hon Calculus
Gym
Chorus
career dev.
Adv. health and wellness

perspective senoir year:

Ap Physics
Ap Government
Ap English
Ap Calc. or stat
Ap phychology
International relations
Chorus
Gym

(i already have 3 consecutive years of French (thank god im done with it ;D))

No but at the same time you should not possibly impair thier future becuase YOU think fitness of the body is as important as fitness of the mind. At the end of the day a smart man with the right degree can make a good living and be woefully out of shape.

You would not force a straight a student to take a acedemic class they know they will get a bad grade, like say a math wiz forced to take AP English, would you? Then why is it different for PE?

I believe that PE is important for 2 main reasons
1)PE exposes you to different types of sports that you would not usually play(I was pretty good a field hockey LOL)
2)PE could teach how to exercise properly
Lets face it there is a lot of junk science on ab burners and all that worthless crap. Kids should be taught that that stuff is worthless. You don't loose your gut by doing 100 situps a day you loose your guy by good cardio.

And seriously no one should fail PE in the perfect curriculum; you dress, you pass.

Fine, you dress you pass, but I know for a fact that is not always the case. I have known people who had to conest with the school board to have PE removed from thier transcipts becuase of some self important over muscled jock teaching the class.

And I told that teacher what i though as well.