IAP Political Forum

Actor Will Smith is saying that Adolph Hitler was not a deliberately bad person, only misguided. He will most likely be ridiculed, but some believe Hitler a mere figurehead (especially after 1934) for sinister and evil butchers like Goering, Himmler and Heydrich. Keep thinking for yourself Will!

OswaldTheOsprey

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/wenn/20071223/ten-smith-hitler-was-a-good-person-c60bd6d_1.html?printer=1

The way Hitler was "misguided" was very, very, very deliberately bad.

But at least he wasn't justifying what Hitler did.

I agree, in his sick twisted way he was doing what he considered was good but sometimes the end doesn't justify the means and genocide of a people was just plain wrong.  The same could be said of terrorist, to them they are doing good in the name of God, we consider them evil since we can't comprehend how a sane individual could come up with terror as being a solution.

Good points. I still say that even if Hitler were simply misguided, Goering, Himmler and Heydrich were not-they were pure evil. Sinister butchers.

OswaldTheOsprey

No one can justify what happened. No sane person.

OswaldTheOsprey

From Hitler's perspective, ultra-nationalism was necessary to revive the power and pride of his country. Unfortunately nationalism was expressed in a very violent way during the Holocaust.

Violent and unforgivable. Do not confuse Social Fascism with Hitler anymore than Democratic Socialism with Stalin. Between Hitler, Stalin and Mao they unfortunately made the word Socialism anathema to many people. Damn them!

OswaldTheOsprey

and what difference it makes?

It makes a difference of millions of dead people. Butchering swine hiding behind socialism.

OswaldTheOsprey

It makes difference for dead ? Uhm,, you right ... Yes dead ppl really have an argument there in "heaven/hell" about whom to blame , Hitler or group of 3 other Nazis who misguided Hitler but still Hitler made the call...

I know where you diggin though, seen hawks like you in my life...

Their deaths make the arguments where final justice is concerned. Hawk? Hardly. Try antiwar.

OswaldTheOsprey

This reminds me of the plead to insanity arguements.  If Hitler was insane when he orchastrated the Holocaust, then he is innocent.  What an excellent defense for evil people.

Fortunately, he saved us that trouble.

OswaldTheOsprey

I see what Will was saying. Hitler thought his actions were good, but in reality they weren't. He should have used different words, though.

Agreed. Welcome aboard!

OswaldTheOsprey

You fit this forum just fine

Indeed.

OswaldTheOsprey

Misguided? Like hell. My GPS pointing me to WalMart when I specifically asked for the organic co-op is misguided.

Hitler was a deliberate perpetrator of evil, not some dupe. He advocated for, and put into practice, policies of genocide and destruction. Will Smith needs to get a f'ing life and get off that Hollywood ego-teat that passes for intellectualism.

Smith was implying, IMHO, that he felt his actions were for the good-not that they were good. Of course they were evil in the extreme.

OswaldTheOsprey

Earl Ofari Hutchinson, at The Huffington Post, states that Smith is being tarred with the same brush as Louis Farrakhan. Another example of silencing someone by sanctimonious outrage.

OswaldTheOsprey

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/earl-ofari-hutchinson/will-smith-got-the-farrak_b_78300.html?view=print

How pathetic is that? Smith shoots his mouth off and says something utterly stupid, and he's being defended with the bigotry card?

Nah, if he said Hitler was right in doing what he did and more that would be utterly stupid and anti-Semitic even.

But he should pick up a history book and know Hitler was doing this for his own benefit.

I guess it goes to show that some people cannot speak without a cue card.

A not uncommon condition in Hollywood! ;)

OswaldTheOsprey

Dennis Prager, columnist and radio talk show host, thinks the various media distorted what Will Smith said. From worldnetdaily.com.

OswaldTheOsprey

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/printer-friendly.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59485

The point he was trying to make was probably that no one believes themselves to be flying the black banner.


There are VERY few people who purposly do what they consider evil. In Hitler mind genocide, aggressive war and eugenics were justified because of a master race. However it is right to point out the insanity (aka mental dilusion) of this ideology. This understanding also does not take away the fact that we must fight against those who do evil.




Evil actions are accidentally taken by "good" men daily, a persons character is based upon what they accomplish not what they believe.

OswaldTheOsprey, you must agree with that Will shouldn't be speaking about stuff like WWII and his IMHO's on the subject, especially when noone is sure about his education and knowledge onthe subject. I can say imho Stalin was nice man and ppl around him misguided him like you do but you never been there so am i to claim such things.

so let's keep imho for stuff like "this t-shirt is cool, imho"  and not something that historically written by millions of different sources

now, i haven't seen what Will said exactly so i'm arguing with you protecting possible stupid statement by Smith but again i'm familiar what media capable of to distort words of ppl.


you as any victim of conspiracy fallen into deepest hole in your life trying to find new that are 99% different from other sources and believe those sources to be true... when neither of sources sayin truth but just trying to gain attention for commercial or fame purposes.

Indeed, I fully agree with you that people would be better off thinking before they speak and know whereof they speak. Many Hollywood figures love to run their mouths on issues. However, the First Amendment guarantees the right to open one's mouth and insert one's foot.

OswaldTheOsprey

Same as anyones right to criticize or blame for anything. i'm not familiar with American law but there are some limitations of what you can and what you cannot say while you are a public person. Anyway i was speaking about morals and not lovely American game of "raping democracy"

I am not an attorney but I believe the limitation is on public figures' right to sue and not to speak. There are libel and slander laws of course. You are quite right in re morals.

OswaldTheOsprey

What a steaming intestinal sculpture !

The question is: So what if, when awakening, Hitler didn't say, "Let me do the most evil thing I can do today."? It's an irrelevancy that cuddles the obvious into a quivering jelly. And in fact, how do we know that Hitler didn't know he was being evil? And even if he didn't think his decisions and actions were "evil," so what? It is ideologies/religiosities such as Smith's that inevitably lead to stupid comments because it requires the redefinition or reconnotation of commonly used words like "good." Smith apparently made this quotation based on a belief that all people start out "basically good." Well IMHO that's crappola! Some people, maybe when they were toddlers, were basically good. But Hitler was NOT good when he was a man. Did HE think he was doing evil? Irrelevant. That is to judged by others ... and I think the consensus opinion there is that Hitler was NOT a good person.

It would like the following: I'm a fan of Pol Pot. I choose to redefine democracy to contain an aspect of fatal authoritarianism as practiced by Pol Pot. And then I say during Pot's reign, "Cambodia is a most democratic nation." You can't redefine words and then expect to be taken seriously. Whether someone is good or not is not something judged by the person being judged. History, other people, even winners decide that ...

Way to necropost!

most nationalism leads to ethnocentrism which allows for room for violence

Hello People

I guess this might be going off topic slightly, but its kind of irrelevant wether Hitler & The Henchmen were consciously evil or not. Five, ten, twenty men cannot a world war or a holocaust make. There were millions of people in several nations complicit in the precipitation of the war and the subsequent holocaust.

The problem is not if Hitler intended evil, its that very few people around him had any concept of good, save those who resisted with their lives. Today's society is no smarter or morally better. We have exchanged military warfare with social and economic warfare, demanding of our governments cheap food, fuel and materials no matter what the cost to other nations or peoples. All so we can throw half of it out for such trivial reasons as "there's a new version out".

There is an absolute goodness, an absolute truth, but society, democratic or otherwise, is not yet ready to learn what that is. So, unfortunately, there will be blood...