IAP Political Forum

Factinista, I think for the most part you are right.

Having said that, too many children are using games not appropriate for their age group and thus get a very wrong impression of real life, death, killing and such. IMHO

-Terry

Are you kidding, those 10 year olds can kick my ass at UT.  I say we stop them all so I have a chance again.

 :angel:

But what are they learning about reality?

Who cares?

But what are they learning about reality? I mean, they come away with the concept of that is how the real world works. 'Virtual reality' does not exist as well as being 'unreal' (pardon the pun).


-Terry

I think you're making the broad assumption that kids today can't dissociate reality from virtual reality.

I think this is a mistake.

You said youself that video games don't promote violence (which I totally agree with)... so why pretend like we have an epidemic of kids trapped by video games? I think people just get obsessed and find little reason to join the real world when they are even happier in the virtual one.

I'm talking about WoW players here.

It's not that they don't know better... it's just games today play to a different drum. It's all about user interface and making it more "real" because some kids don't like the real world much. Granted, it's a small fraction of gamers, but I think your reasoning is flawed when you try to diagnose their problem.

And if you incorectly diagnose the problem you can't possibly find the propper antidote.

I strongly disagree. How can an eight or ten year old distinguish between reality and virtual? I remember a case in Chicago where the Police said it IS a real problem, forcing them to have to choose between shooting a child or getting killed themselves.

Just because you obviously are a gamer, albeit an OLDER one, you cannot possibly make your judgement stick when it comes to a child..

What I am trying to say is that it is a very real problem with children playing violent games above their age, so much so that Police departments are having issues with it.

As a leader, you should NOT recommend that children play games designed for a more mature user. That would be irresponsible IMHO.

I think these concerns are contrived, personally.


As a "leader" I'm not gonna lie in order to placate a false idea that video games promote violence.

Will I keep my kid away? Probably. I think every parent should, but I'm not gonna be a video game Nazi because people don't understand the real problems.

Abraxas, I'll just have to agree to disagree. Personally you cannot compare yourself with 99.9% of the children out there. After all, why do the games have ratings? Because there have been problems.

I find your viewpoint reprehensible and unsubstantiated. If you were a responsible parent, you would know better.

Kids see far more violence in television and movies, and it's a lot harder to tell that those are not real versus a video game.

This is total rubbish. Why exactly would kids mix up video games with reality?

That's what the police would love to know. An eight year old in Chicago was killed by a policeman some time ago. The kid (who was a gamer) had a loaded weapon aimed at the policeman. Bad situation. You cannot compare adult logic to a child, as most parents know.  ;)

Of course he was a gamer - most kids are! On what basis can you say that his gaming caused this and not some other factor (psychological problems would be my bet)?

You still offer no proof that the reason a kid would hold a gun to a cop is because he plays video games. You just assume that.

Ditto you!
.. I'll believe the cops, ty.  ;)

Yeah, who needs proof or any line of reasoning, when you can just take somebody's word for it?

I haven't seen you prove your hypothesis Terry.  Were you going to back it up, or is bluster the best we can expect?

Biker, you are just playing the devil's advocate mate,

I gave the report from the Chicago Police say violent games DO influence young children. As far as I am concerned, it it up to others to prove that children using games rated higher than their age level do not influence their virtual/reality views.

I don't have to prove a thing, the evidence is out there, those here have to prove that violence in games (unmonitored by parents) does not influence their childs behaviour towards it.

What is so difficult about that?

All you lot have to do is call your local Police, and ask them. Must I lead you by the hand like the kiddies you talk about?  ;)

I don't have to prove a thing

All you lot have to do is call your local Police, and ask them. Must I lead you by the hand like the kiddies you talk about?

Now, now children..

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WJB-45PMFD3-7&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=c44f465dcfb35ae359d7a074298914b7

Now piss off.  ;)

Biker, you are just playing the devil's advocate mate,

I gave the report from the Chicago Police saying violent games DO influence young children. As far as I am concerned, it it up to others to prove that children using games rated higher than their age level do not influence their virtual/reality views.

I don't have to prove a thing, the evidence is out there, those here have to prove that violence in games (unmonitored by parents) does not influence their childs behaviour towards it.

What is so difficult about that?

-Terry

Abstract
Evidence of the effects of playing violent video games on subsequent aggression has been mixed.

LOL

If I played 10 minutes of basket ball I would probably have elevated levels of aggression too. Does this mean kids should stop playing sports?

Jeez! No sports. No video games.

What ever will our young people do to stay occupied?

No Terry, you provided some anecdotal evidence.  You do understand the difference don't you?  Repeatedly saying something doesn't make it any more true.

And this is from YOUR source...


Hardly the ringing endorsement of your position eh?  In fact, further review reveals that the authors were also studying the effects of sex on violent behavior.

This hardly constitutes you 'winning' this argument, and certainly does not warrant you extremely childish behavior in this thread.  Have you been playing violent video games Terry?   ;D

So, Terry, what position are you taking?  It looked like you were of the position that games should be censored or banned, and according to your last post it appears that you feel the responsibility lies with the parents.  I am of the mindset that the government should not be telling me what my kids or myself should or should not play/watch/listen to.  If I feel that it is inappropriate for my child to play/watch/listen then I will make that call as every responsible parent should.

Now, as to your article/abstract.  It is a very shabby piece of work.  It details how people feel after 10 minutes of playing a game and it appears that it is right after the games are completed.  It leaves a lot open for interpretation.

Note to all you lot. You can't handle the full length research article, so the abstract got posted, even though you have absolutely no sources. Where are YOUR sources? So who is childish? I can post bunches of scientific papers but it wouldn't do anything because you don't have the background to fully comprehend if you never understood my premise.

Like I said,"Beware of thin skinned moderators."
..It fits.

The only decent post in this thread is right below mine, the view of which I said all along. That parents need to pay heed to the ratings, and they are responsible for their childs access to violent games.

So who is the fool Biker?

Exactly, you.  ;)

Carry on.

Bloody Mods, you'd last 10 minutes in my forums. Past tense now, though I keep the domain and the shell up.

Can video games make kids more violent? A new study employing state-of-the-art brain-scanning technology says that the answer may be yes.

Researchers at the Indiana University School of Medicine say that brain scans of kids who played a violent video game showed an increase in emotional arousal – and a corresponding decrease of activity in brain areas involved in self-control, inhibition and attention.

Does this mean that your teenager will feel an uncontrollable urge to go on a shooting rampage after playing “Call of Duty?”

Story continues below ↓
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Vince Mathews, the principal investigator on the study, hesitates to make that leap. But he says he does think that the study should encourage parents to look more closely at the types of games their kids are playing.

“Based on our results, I think parents should be aware of the relationship between violent video-game playing and brain function.”

Mathews and his colleagues chose two action games to include in their research -- one violent the other not. 

The first game was the high-octane but non-violent racing game “Need for Speed: Underground.” The other was the ultra-violent first-person shooter “Medal of Honor: Frontline.”

The team divided a group of 44 adolescents into two groups, and randomly assigned the kids to play one of the two games. Immediately after the play sessions, the children were given MRIs of their brains.

The scans showed a negative effect on the brains of the teens who played “Medal of Honor” for 30 minutes. That same effect was not present in the kids who played “Need for Speed.”

The only difference? Violent content.

What’s not clear is whether the activity picked up by the MRIs indicates a lingering — or worse, permanent — effect on the kids’ brains.

And it’s also not known what effect longer play times might have. The scope of this study was 30 minutes of play, and one brain scan per kid, although further research is in the works.

OK. But what about violent TV shows? Or violent films? Has anyone ever done a brain scan of kids that have just watched a violent movie?


 iscuss: Do violent video games make teens more violent?
More On the Level
 


Someone has. John P. Murray, a psychology professor at Kansas State University, conducted a very similar experiment, employing the same technology used in Mathews’ study. His findings are similar.

Kids in his study experienced increased emotional arousal when watching short clips from the boxing movie “Rocky IV.”

So, why is everyone picking on video games? Probably because there’s a much smaller body of research on video games. They just haven’t been around as long as TV and movies, so the potential effects on children are a bigger unknown. That’s a scary thing for a parent. 

Larry Ley, the director and coordinator of research for the Center for Successful Parenting, which funded Mathews’ study, says the purpose of the research was to help parents make informed decisions.

“There’s enough data that clearly indicates that [game violence] is a problem,” he says. “And it’s not just a problem for kids with behavior disorders.”

But not everyone is convinced that this latest research adds much to the debate – particularly the game development community. One such naysayer is Doug Lowenstein, president of the Entertainment Software Association.

“We've seen other studies in this field that have made dramatic claims but turn out to be less persuasive when objectively analyzed.”

The ESA has a whole section of its Web site dedicated to the topic of video game violence, which would suggest that they get asked about it — a lot.

And they’ve got plenty of answers at the ready for the critics who want to lay school shootings or teen aggression at the feet of the game industry. Several studies cited by the ESA point to games’ potential benefits for developing decision-making skills or bettering reaction times.

Ley, however, argues such studies aren’t credible because they were produced by “hired guns” funded by the multi-billion-dollar game industry.

“We’re not trying to sell [parents] anything,” he says. “We don’t have a product. The video game industry does.”

Increasingly parents are more accepting of video game violence, chalking it up to being a part of growing up.

“I was dead-set against violent video games,” says Kelley Windfield, a Sammamish, Wa.-based mother of two. “But my husband told me I had to start loosening up.”

Laura Best, a mother of three from Clovis, Calif., says she looks for age-appropriate games for her 14 year-old son, Kyle. And although he doesn’t play a lot of games, he does tend to gravitate towards shooters like “Medal of Honor.”  But she isn’t concerned that Kyle will become aggressive as a result.

“That’s like saying a soccer game or a football game will make a kid more aggressive,” she says. “It’s about self-control, and you’ve got to learn it.”

Ley says he believes further research, for which the Center for Successful Parenting is trying to arrange, will prove a cause-and-effect relationship between game violence and off-screen aggression.

But for now, he says, the study released last week gives his organization the ammunition it needs to prove that parents need to be more aware of how kids are using their free time.

“Let’s quit using various Xboxes as babysitters instead of doing healthful activities,” says Ley, citing the growing epidemic of childhood obesity in the United States.

What’s not clear is whether the activity picked up by the MRIs indicates a lingering — or worse, permanent — effect on the kids’ brains.

Here is the problem, if you scan straight after playing a game requiring aggressive behaviour it is only natural that there would be an increase in aggression. The same would most likely be true of aggressive sports like rugby or American football. I doubt very much that you or Terry could produce a study showing a long term link between violent games and violent behaviour (not just a correlation but a proper causal link).

I found one study trying to link violence with video games. Although it is more of a study between video games and brain study. I have to also say, that I am sceptical on most types of studies like this. But maybe it might be relevant to this topic which is why I posted it.

Iamme, this was my post before I posted the link to the study  :)