IAP Political Forum

Should Turkish women be able to wear head scarves while they go to school?

Only if it doesn't cover up their whole face, I don't see the problem. I'm assuming you're meaning if they move to western countries, though. There are lots of muslim students at my old high school who would wear them and it wasn't a big deal at all.

In Turkey?  Or here?

I don't know what anyone else's high school was like, but there was a Muslim girl at mine who wore a headscarf. Yarmulkes were also exempted from the restriction on hats and head coverings.

if you allow head scarves then you must allow yamakas then you must allow bandannas and hats...its just a slippery slope IMO.  I don't know about where you live but in the US hats and bandannas are screaming for gang violence.

IMO its a no go...it you daughter needs to wear a head scarf then go to a private school that will allow it.  Its just not manageable in the public system.

Neo mate,

There is a big difference from gang related and/or hats to a religion mandate. At least it is clearly delineated from my perspective.


Warm regards
Terry

I meant in Turkey.  Sorry.  ;D

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Hi Gojira,

Hope you and your family are well. My answer to your thread still remains the same. I think of Turkey as sort of a bridge between the East and the West. Do Turks view Turkey that way. Correct me please if I am wrong!  :)


Warmest regards
Terry

Thank you Terry, I wish you the same!

Turkey definately is the bridge between the East and West.  And I think that this issue is of a much more broader issue; one that threatnes Turkey's secular government.

Many believe that by allowing headscarves, Turkey becomes more threatned to become more of a Fundamentalist state as Islamic values become more intertwined in government institutions.  However, I am a man of personal freedom, religion being part of those freedoms, and no one should be denied an education if they have a specific religious belief that may warrant them to be denied. 

However does this personal freedom have a direct or indirect effect on the nation?  A direct effect no.  No one gets hurt directly from one wearing a headscarf.  However, the indirect effect may be that Turkey will lose their secular government.

Yet my family has visited Turkey and has spoke with many.  Believe it or not, whether a traditionalist or as a progressive, both believe in their government being secular. 

So I would say, let them wear their headscarves as should any other religious symbol that could be worn.  As long as it doesn't directly effect anyone else.  However, the indirect effects must be watched closely. 

One might say it probably would be better to not take the risk and ban them all together.  But I have a heart and if I was placed in a Turkish women's shoes who was strong to her personal beleifs about her religion, I might say otherwise. 

Wise words indeed Gojira! I look forward to more interaction with you. I am so glad you are on the Board, even if we have growing pains!

Kind regards and respect
Terry

If there are school rules against hats or scarves already no exception should be made.

That would be sensible before joining a school and being presented and told that no religious attire either would be permitted...

Easy for you to say, your lively hood isn't determined by a piece of cloth over your head.

Absolutely Gojira, and more than that even. Faith.   ;)



Warmest regards
Terry

Shouldn't ones religious beliefs be honoured and respected?

I am not sure as to why the women wear scarves for covering their heads but I think that regardless of where this is taking place that there should be  respect up held to them.

In a secular society the rules apply equally to everyone regardless of religion.

No I disagree. Religious attire should be allowed as long as it doesn't break some other rule. There should be no rules against religious attire per se.

No. They should be tolerated but no special rules should be made.


It's got very little to do with religion and a lot to do with male dominance. The Koran says women should dress modestly and the hadith indicates that the wives of the prophet wore veils. The hadith also indicates that Mohammed had sex with a nine year old girl though I doubt you are saying that that should be allowed.

Gojira,

Let them wear headscraves. If turkish youth want to look like arabs, why not?
If they want to be closer to Iraq, Syria and Saoudi Arabia, that's their choice.
Maybe the next logical step for these young women would be to push for a driving ban for women... :D

What I mean is that the underlining problem is not the piece of cloth, but the direction the Turkish society and the turkish mentality is taking.
It's even not the question of worrying or not. If they are happy disguising themselves as arab, that's good. Why should we worry when poeple are happy?
If the ideal model for the young turkish poeple is a mix of Pakistanese, Sudanese and Yemenite models and that the headscarve is only the visible reflection of that, then they will join the happy club of the Syria-Iraq-Iran-Afghanistan quranic belt (Allah-U-Akbar!).
Banning headscarves won't stop that. not banning them would at least reveal the true intention of the new generation.

Gojira had it right from the beginning, I fully agree and understand. One should see what Saudi Women go through (we have a book about a Saudi Lady called "Princess"). Actually, I'm mad enough about how all women are  treated in the Mid-East and are considered 'chattel' (property).

Let the bloody men fight their wars and die, give them a dose of reality before they go home if they survive!

The ladies in the ME deserve so much better. Now, I know there are good, functional families and good husbands as well.

By the way, our favourite family are from Egypt and are Muslim. Hisham and Sophia are brother and sister to us and we to them.

Salaam Aleikum
Terry

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I never said that there should be anything special extended to them because of their beliefs and their choices.  I simply stated that we should extend respect towards them.




Obviously that is your inturpretation of their beliefs and regardless of whether or not there is truth in that, people believe that to be what they need to do in order to honour their respective beliefs.  Shouldn't we then still respect their decsions and their choices in life?

Arabs are not the only ones who wear headscarves. Iranians do too. And so do many Muslims in Turkey. This is NOT an Arab thing, this is a Muslim thing. Unless in your mind Freddie, Arab and Muslim is the same thing, then I don't see why you called me a Christian Arab in another thread. Or do we all come in one block to you...unless we agree with you of course  ;)

I say they should be allowed to wear the veil if they so wish. It is about religious freedom, and has nothing to do with politics.

Separating politics from religion works both ways. Religion should be out of politics, and religious beliefs should be personal. The state has no right to interfere with the religious beliefs of individuals unless they become threatening.

Some religious beliefs are apparent such as the veil, whereas others are not, such as praying.

Suppose that during the holy month of Ramadan, a turkish student doesn't want to fast. He/She has the right to eat during the day, right? because this falls under freedom of belief. So he is given the freedom NOT to live according to the teachings of his religion. In the same way, a student who wants to cover her head must be allowed to do so because this also falls under HER right for freedom of belief.

Why would freedom of belief apply to those who don't believe and not to those who do?

I think everyone is mixing up the difference between 'religious freedoms' and 'inherent customs.' The United States advocates religious freedom - the right to worship as you see fit. But - the trouble comes into play depending on where you live in this country. In some areas - Christian customs do not always look kindly on Muslim practices. Yet - in larger metro areas - where there is a greater percentage of immigrants - people tend to be a little more tolerant. Because in those areas - there are so many different cultures and customs living together side by side. For example - take a Muslim family and move them to a predominantly Baptist neighborhood and you're going to have problems. But - that same family living somewhere in New York City - would have less to consider.

America and Turkey are two completely different countries. 

The only comparison I can see is that we both are fighting for secular states; one against fundamentalist Islam and the other fundamentalist Christianity.

I said "if they want to look like arab" as an example but they can also look like Iranian, Pashtun or Nigerian if they prefer those fashions. I said "arab" because arabs are the most pototypical of all muslims.

But they will not look like modern XXIth century women. And they won't be because such dress, while inofensive, reflects a deeper turn in their religious mentality and retarded reactionism. It's the tip of the iceberg (or of the dune should I say ;)).

There's a difference between respecting their right to believe what they want and respecting the beliefs themselves. I do te former but not the latter.


There is no explicit command in Islam saying that a veil of any kind must be worn. How you get from "modestly" to "put on a tent" is beyond me.