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Political Discussions => United States => Topic started by: jpn of Seattle on September 03, 2008, 01:59:13 PM



Title: Palin and Troopergate
Post by: jpn of Seattle on September 03, 2008, 01:59:13 PM
Since this is a story with lots of legs, that will be around for the entire election, I thought it deserves it's own thread. Of all the criticisms of McCain's bizarre choice for VP, the one that I find most damning is this. Of course I oppose every one of her stands on social policies, but hey, she's a Republican. This, however, appears to be exactly like the kind of sleezy, incompetent, dishonest, and arrogant maneuvering that we've come to expect from the Bush Administration.
We hardly want another four years of this slime.

Here's the latest:
Quote
Palin Wants Independent Trooper-Gate Probe Called Off
By Zachary Roth - September 3, 2008, 10:09AM
In the latest sign that Sarah Palin's promised cooperation with the Trooper-Gate investigation is failing to materialize, her lawyer is now demanding that the entire case be taken out of the hands of the independent prosecutor hired by Alaska lawmakers, and given over to a state personnel board -- whose three members were appointed by the governor herself.

In an unusual "ethics disclosure" filed last night, along with related documents, to the state Attorney General, Palin's lawyer, Thomas Van Flein, asked the personnel board to look into the firing of Walt Monegan, the former public safety commissioner at the center of the case. Van Flein also asked the legislature to drop its own investigation, contending that only the personnel board has jurisdiction over ethics. And he suggested that if the legislature didn't agree to hand the matter over to the personnel board, Palin would not be made available for a deposition.

Sen. Hollis French, the Anchorage Democrat in charge of the legislature's investigation, immediately told the Anchorage Daily News that the probe would go ahead as planned. French has said before that he is willing to issue subpoenas if necessary.
source: http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/09/palin_wants_independent_troope.php


Title: Re: Palin and Troopergate
Post by: Reaganite on September 03, 2008, 02:37:43 PM
lets get this straight.. she fired a guy who serves at the will of teh governer...

ok

sounds like umm sour grapes.



Title: Re: Palin and Troopergate
Post by: jpn of Seattle on September 04, 2008, 05:20:03 AM
Yes indeed, let's get this straight. Palin ordered a public official, Monegan, to fire someone not for job-performace reasons, but in order to pursue a personal vendetta. Monegan, to his credit, refused. She fired him. What she did is probably illegal, and that's why an official investigation is being conducted.

Oh, she also originally lied about it. The state police had a recording of one of her deputies pushing Monegan to fire Wooten. That evidence forced Palin to change her story.

Get it now?

No, didn't think so.

--source: talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/211769.php


Title: Re: Palin and Troopergate
Post by: Reaganite on September 04, 2008, 07:17:03 AM
Yes indeed, let's get this straight. Palin ordered a public official, Monegan, to fire someone not for job-performace reasons, but in order to pursue a personal vendetta. Monegan, to his credit, refused. She fired him. What she did is probably illegal, and that's why an official investigation is being conducted.

Oh, she also originally lied about it. The state police had a recording of one of her deputies pushing Monegan to fire Wooten. That evidence forced Palin to change her story.

Get it now?

No, didn't think so.

--source: talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/211769.php

A cop that was suspended for death threats and using a stun gun on a ten year old for fun...

Yea I guess democrats want to make that guy their hero....


Title: Re: Palin and Troopergate
Post by: jpn of Seattle on September 04, 2008, 07:45:26 PM
A cop that was suspended for death threats and using a stun gun on a ten year old for fun...

The following is from the article I linked to above. Presumably Reaganite read it, but then he likes to ignore facts that he finds uncomfortable.

==============================================
Let's review what happened.

The Palin family had a feud with Wooten prior to her becoming governor. They put together a list of 14 accusations which they took to the state police to investigate -- a list that ranged from the quite serious to the truly absurd. The state police did an investigation, decided that 5 of the charges had some merit and suspended Wooten for ten days -- a suspension later reduced to five days. The Palin's weren't satisfied but there wasn't much they could do.

When Palin became governor they went for another bite at the apple. Palin, her husband and several members of her staff began pressuring Public Safety Commissioner, Walt Monegan -- a respected former Chief of the Anchorage police department -- to can Wooten. Monegan resisted, arguing that the official process regarding Wooten was closed. And there was nothing more that could be done. In fact, during one of the conversations in which Palin's husband Todd was putting on the squeeze, Monegan told Todd Palin, "You can't head hunt like this. What you need to do is back off, because if the trooper does make a mistake, and it is a terminable offense, it can look like political interference."

===============================================

So Palin went on a witchhunt. Competent authority reviewed the results, and suspended the cop for five days. Among people with respect for legal processes, that should have been the end of the story. But Palin apparently doesn't have this respect for legal processes. Once she became governor she decided to screw legal processes and just have the guy terminated. Period. 'Cuz you don't mess with Sarah Barracuda. 

And this person you want in the White House? No wonder you idealize Reagan, a man with a similar contempt for legal processes. But not as much contempt as Geoge W Bush, of course. Maybe you think Palin will break even Bush's record for contempt of the rule of law? Is that what you're hoping to see? Because she sure seems to fit the bill.


Title: Re: Palin and Troopergate
Post by: jpn of Seattle on September 04, 2008, 07:48:23 PM
Here's the latest:

Quote
Alaska police union files complaint against Palin
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 3:11 PM ET
Filed Under: Politics
By Aram Roston and Amna Nawaz, NBC News producers

The GOP candidate for vice president, Gov. Sarah Palin, may be facing yet another ethics investigation back in her home state of Alaska. An ethics complaint obtained by NBC News was filed Wednesday by the police officers union in Alaska, requesting a probe into possible wrongdoing by the governor or her office. It was brought on behalf of state trooper Mike Wooten, an ex-brother-in-law of Palin who is at the center of the "Troopergate" scandal.

The complaint alleges that the governor or her staff may have have improperly disclosed information from Wooten's personnel records. The complaint alleges "criminal penalties may apply."

John Cyr, director of the union that filed the complaint, told NBC News, "It seems obvious to us somebody has improperly accessed [Wooten's] personnel file."

source: http://deepbackground.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/09/04/1347737.aspx

Let's see, I wonder if Palin, with her obvious contempt for legal processes and just common decency, is behind this? Gosh, do you recken?


Title: Re: Palin and Troopergate
Post by: Reaganite on September 04, 2008, 09:07:09 PM
again...

He stun gunned his 10 year old step son......

what will he do to some poor black guy that is caught speeding in AK.......

Cant we all just get along?


Title: Re: Palin and Troopergate
Post by: jpn of Seattle on September 04, 2008, 09:16:50 PM
again...

He stun gunned his 10 year old step son......

what will he do to some poor black guy that is caught speeding in AK.......

Cant we all just get along?

Again. The people who were authorized to investigate it did so. Palin wasn't satisfied with that and apparently used extra-legal means to carry out a personal vendetta. And lied about it?

Can't we just all have responsible government?

Not with people like Palin in government and people like Reaganite supporting them.


Title: Re: Palin and Troopergate
Post by: Reaganite on September 04, 2008, 11:02:09 PM
again...

He stun gunned his 10 year old step son......

what will he do to some poor black guy that is caught speeding in AK.......

Cant we all just get along?

Again. The people who were authorized to investigate it did so. Palin wasn't satisfied with that and apparently used extra-legal means to carry out a personal vendetta. And lied about it?

Can't we just all have responsible government?

Not with people like Palin in government and people like Reaganite supporting them.

anyone that tortures a child with a stun gun should not be a cop...  this is easy to understand... I guess to you torture is only bad when its a terrorist being tortured :)


Title: Re: Palin and Troopergate
Post by: bactrian on September 05, 2008, 06:39:31 AM
Has anyone noticed that "jpn of Seattle " backs up his position with references to documentation while "Reaganite" just makes an unsubstantiated allegation.

Reaganite obviously subscribes to the philosophy "Throw enough mud and some of it will stick"


Title: Re: Palin and Troopergate
Post by: freethinker on September 05, 2008, 07:11:51 AM
 Bonzo supported torture boy Alberto and the fireing of the US attournies. Who serve, as they LOOOVE to say, "at the pleasure  of the president" ...this ass clown misses the entire point that they are sworn to the constitution and  not to a man. IMO this is an extention of the exact same argument.  Bonzo is unlikely to see any differently now than he did then...he's just too ignorant,stupid and partisan.
(http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:zH_D41a0KptysM:http://img.metro.co.uk/i/pix/2007/01/chimpanzeeAP_175x125.jpg)


Title: Re: Palin and Troopergate
Post by: Reaganite on September 05, 2008, 07:53:39 AM
Bonzo supported torture boy Alberto and the fireing of the US attournies. Who serve, as they LOOOVE to say, "at the pleasure  of the president" ...this ass clown misses the entire point that they are sworn to the constitution and  not to a man. IMO this is an extention of the exact same argument.  Bonzo is unlikely to see any differently now than he did then...he's just too ignorant,stupid and partisan.
(http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:zH_D41a0KptysM:http://img.metro.co.uk/i/pix/2007/01/chimpanzeeAP_175x125.jpg)

again.. so torturing a boy of 10 years is OK with a stun gun?  There is no denying it as its one of the reasons he was suspended.

I just want you on record agreeeing with ...


Title: Re: Palin and Troopergate
Post by: Reaganite on September 05, 2008, 07:54:57 AM
so torturing a boy of 10 years is OK with a stun gun?  There is no denying it as its one of the reasons he was suspended.

I just want you on record agreeeing with ...


Title: Re: Palin and Troopergate
Post by: jpn of Seattle on September 05, 2008, 06:20:05 PM
so torturing a boy of 10 years is OK with a stun gun?  There is no denying it as its one of the reasons he was suspended.

I just want you on record agreeeing with ...

Reaganite, I just want you on record agreeing with the proposition that lying to the state police is wrong.

Waiting.


Title: Re: Palin and Troopergate
Post by: jpn of Seattle on September 05, 2008, 06:26:08 PM
Here's the latest bulletin.

Quote
Delicate Dance
The investigators up in Alaska have come out with their press release announcing how they plan to deal with Gov. Palin's stonewalling of the trooper-gate investigation. It seems Palin has now gotten seven others to also refuse to speak to the investigators (they all signaled their refusal to testify post-Palin announcement). And they've now decided to meet on September 12th to decide whether or not to issue subpoenas to compel testimony. However, they will not issue a subpoena for Palin herself. Why? The press release from the investigators says it's because: "She has told the public that she intends to cooperate with the investigation, indeed, she has told the public that she welcomes the investigation and I have every faith that she means it."

Now, this is a bit artful since just two days ago Gov. Palin made clear that she will not cooperate with the investigation.

It turns out that obtaining the truth is going to be difficult if Palin continues to refuse to tell the truth or cooperate:

Quote
The point-man for the committee which voted to start the probe is Democrat Hollis French. However, the committee, that voted unanimously to begin the probe has a Republican majority.

So what if Palin just absolutely refuses to testify and continues to stonewall?

TPMmuckraker's Zack Roth just spoke to GOP Rep Jay Ramras, also a member of the committee. And he says no, that even if Palin refuses to cooperate, compelling her to testify would be "inappropriate conduct given the unique political circumstances" and "disrespectful."

I bet Republicans everywhere are sighing with relief. The investigation is being controlled by fellow Republicans! No need to worry about a fair and honest investigation now! Weeee! Aren't they moral!?! It must be a product of all that small-town, heartland of America influence!

Source: talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/214041.php


Title: Re: Palin and Troopergate
Post by: jpn of Seattle on September 05, 2008, 06:54:18 PM
At least one national paper is demanding that Palin stop hiding from the public:

Palin's stall
Governor is stonewalling the Troopergate investigation
Published: September 5th, 2008 12:11 AM

Gov. Sarah Palin is taking the wrong approach to Troopergate. She should be practicing the open and transparent, ethical and accountable government she promised when running for governor and boasts about now that she's on the national stage.

Instead, Gov. Palin has begun stonewalling the Legislature's attempt to get the bottom of allegations that she, her family or staff violated ethical or state personnel rules.

As a result, the Troopergate allegations hang over Palin's future and cloud her candidacy for vice president.

The allegations are that she, her family or administration improperly pressured then-Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan to fire Gov. Palin's ex-brother-in-law, state trooper Mike Wooten, who had been in the middle of a custody dispute with Palin's sister.

In July, when legislators started talking about conducting an investigation, Palin denied any wrongdoing and said she welcomed an investigation.

"Hold me accountable," she said.

The Legislature took her up on that offer. But this week, she basically told the Legislature, "Never mind."

Source: Anchorage Daily News: http://www.adn.com/opinion/view/story/516641.html




Title: Re: Palin and Troopergate
Post by: illy on September 06, 2008, 09:28:51 AM
Wooten sounds like a real ass-wipe. I would have been in favor of canning this guy, but the rule of law needs to be respected.

The claim that Wooten tortured his stepson with a taser is unsubstantiated and frivolous. It shows a terrible lack of judgement on Wooten's part, but claiming it to be torture is just sensationalist BS.


Quote from: Anchorage Daily News
One day -- maybe a year or two before the investigation -- Wooten showed his stepson his Taser. He had just been to Taser instructor school. Wooten told Sgt. Wall that the boy was fascinated and pleaded to be tased.

"So we went in our living room and I had him get down on his knees so he wouldn't fall. And I taped the probes to him and turned the Taser on for like a second, turned it off. He thought that was the greatest thing in the world, wanted to do it again," Wooten told the investigator. The boy flinched but nothing more, he said. The boy was about 11 at the time.

In his interview with troopers, the stepson said it hurt for about a second, according to Wall's report. The boy said he wanted to be tased to show his cousin, Palin's daughter Bristol, that he wasn't a mama's boy. The probe left a welt on his arm, he said. His mother was upstairs yelling at them not to do it, the boy said.

Link (http://www.adn.com/politics/story/476430.html)

I agree this this makes a poor case for giving Wooten weapons and a badge, but torture? This is more akin to roughhousing. Foolish but not malicious.


Whether or not you like the outcome, that matter had been decided. Wooten' status as a Trooper is not at issue here. The issue here is whether Governor Sarah Palin used her position of power to carry on personal and family vendettas.


Quote from: Washington Post
Anchorage Superior Court Judge John Suddock reviewed the complaints filed by Palin and her family. At trial on Oct. 27, 2005, the judge expressed puzzlement about why the family was trying to get Wooten fired, since depriving the trooper of a job would harm his ability to pay family support to Palin's sister.

"It appears for the world that Ms. McCann and her family have decided to take off for the guy's livelihood -- that the bitterness of whatever who did what to whom has overridden good judgment," Suddock said in an audio recording from the trial on TV station KTUU's Web site.

Link (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/30/AR2008083002366.html?hpid=topnews)

If the Wooten case was motivation for Palin's decision to dismiss Monegan, then she acted highly inappropriately.


Title: Re: Palin and Troopergate
Post by: freethinker on September 06, 2008, 09:37:38 AM
Has anyone noticed that "jpn of Seattle " backs up his position with references to documentation while "Reaganite" just makes an unsubstantiated allegation.

Reaganite obviously subscribes to the philosophy "Throw enough mud and some of it will stick"




                                       I noticed.


Title: Re: Palin and Troopergate
Post by: freethinker on September 06, 2008, 09:46:03 AM
 Thank you illy for the truth about these unsubstantiated allegations.
 No doubt Bonzo will continue to refer to Wooten as a child torturer in defense of Palin's personal vendeta against him.  But one must remember Bonzo is thinking and reacting with the little head here...
 
lol.. she is kinda hot... heh..  She has 5 kids.. MILF  heh


Title: Re: Palin and Troopergate
Post by: Reaganite on September 06, 2008, 10:54:23 AM
So if the 11 year old asked to be shot in the leg with a 9mm would wooten do it?

This guy seems to be a moron who does not deserve a badge...

Keep fighting for him guys ...


Title: Re: Palin and Troopergate
Post by: Biker Dude on September 06, 2008, 11:15:47 AM
Keep doing your best to keep the focus on him.  Because everybody knows that Palin can't handle having this examined closely. 


Title: Re: Palin and Troopergate
Post by: freethinker on September 06, 2008, 11:17:31 AM
So if the 11 year old asked to be shot in the leg with a 9mm would wooten do it?

This guy seems to be a moron who does not deserve a badge...

Keep fighting for him guys ...

 No I highly doubt he would ...
 If you moronically insist on arguing the absurd, it would be obvious to almost anyone else that a 9mm would do permanent damage, a one second tasering , as the article revealed, left "a welt on his arm".  
 Your inability to admit that Palin's desire to terminate the trooper was personal in nature leads you down this absurd road of exaggeration fabrication and lies Bonzo.
 It may be true that Wooten is a jerk, it may be true that he deserved to get fired. The only case I have heard to support that though is this made up crap about torturing a kid with a taser. We now know that that is a lie. If there was more I suspect we would have heard it by now.
  BTW Which head thought up the 9mm line? ;D


Title: Re: Palin and Troopergate
Post by: bactrian on September 06, 2008, 11:44:47 AM
What is clear about this event is


a. Those who support Palin  accept that it happened.
b. Wooton probably is not a nice guy.
c. The proper authorities investigated the matter  and found that a small sanction was appropriate.
d. Sarah Palin  felt that the  proper authorities  finding was too lenient
e. Sarah Palin (ab)used her position in an attempt to have Wooton fired.

It seems that if Palin is to be Vice President that she will  continue the same Government by Vendetta  exemplified by the Bush administration.

So much for McCain stealing  Obama's thunder  on "Change"


Title: Re: Palin and Troopergate
Post by: freethinker on September 06, 2008, 11:53:47 AM
What is clear about this event is


a. Those who support Palin  accept that it happened.
b. Wooton probably is not a nice guy.
c. The proper authorities investigated the matter  and found that a small sanction was appropriate.
d. Sarah Palin  felt that the  proper authorities  finding was too lenient
e. Sarah Palin (ab)used her position in an attempt to have Wooton fired.

It seems that if Palin is to be Vice President that she will  continue the same Government by Vendetta  exemplified by the Bush administration.

So much for McCain stealing  Obama's thunder  on "Change"

 bactrian; You left out  f. Palin had a pesonal family related vendeta against the trooper and she had no problem with abuseing her official power against him.


Title: Re: Palin and Troopergate
Post by: jpn of Seattle on September 08, 2008, 03:05:24 PM
Also left out is Palin's promise to fully cooperate with the investigation, followed by lies and obstruction.

Quote
It is our belief that the even the perception of public cooperation is ending. 

Palin's attorney, Thomas Van Flein, is unlikely to agree to depositions, forcing the Alaska legislature to issue subpoenas for Palin and other present and past Alaska state employees.  At that time, Van Flein will either move to quash the subpoenas, likely claiming the legislature has no jurisdiction to authorize the inquiry and that subpoenas for records violate the Alaska Constitution’s right to privacy or, those subpoenaed will refuse to appear, forcing the state legislature to seek judicial enforcement of the subpoenas.  The delay will push the conclusion of the investigation past November 4, 2008.

That is the same strategy employed by the Bush adminstration to prevent the congressional testimony of Josh Bolten and Harriet Miers. 

[http://www.]citizensforethics.org/node/33987

How Bush-like can she possibly be???


Title: Re: Palin and Troopergate
Post by: Reaganite on September 08, 2008, 03:11:39 PM
So if the 11 year old asked to be shot in the leg with a 9mm would wooten do it?

This guy seems to be a moron who does not deserve a badge...

Keep fighting for him guys ...

 No I highly doubt he would ...
 If you moronically insist on arguing the absurd, it would be obvious to almost anyone else that a 9mm would do permanent damage, a one second tasering , as the article revealed, left "a welt on his arm".  
 Your inability to admit that Palin's desire to terminate the trooper was personal in nature leads you down this absurd road of exaggeration fabrication and lies Bonzo.
 It may be true that Wooten is a jerk, it may be true that he deserved to get fired. The only case I have heard to support that though is this made up crap about torturing a kid with a taser. We now know that that is a lie. If there was more I suspect we would have heard it by now.
  BTW Which head thought up the 9mm line? ;D

does waterboarding cause permanent damage?


Title: Re: Palin and Troopergate
Post by: freethinker on September 08, 2008, 03:38:19 PM
 Here's something just for you Bonzo. When I saw it I immediately thought of you. You can put it on your nightstand next to your bed...
(http://www.sarahpalinactionfigure.com/img/superhero.jpg) http://www.sarahpalinactionfigure.com/