IAP Political Forum

Political Discussions => United States => Topic started by: Abraxas on October 17, 2007, 11:45:31 AM



Title: Flat out lie...
Post by: Abraxas on October 17, 2007, 11:45:31 AM
Quote from: Breitbart.com
US President George W. Bush said Wednesday that he had warned world leaders they must prevent Iran from getting nuclear weapons "if you're interested in avoiding World War III."
"We've got a leader in Iran who has announced that he wants to destroy Israel," Bush said at a White House press conference after Russia cautioned against military action against Tehran's supect atomic program.

"So I've told people that, if you're interested in avoiding World War III, it seems like you ought to be interested in preventing them from having the knowledge necessary to make a nuclear weapon," said Bush.

LINK (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=071017154505.rci3xjja&show_article=1)

With all due respect, Mr. President, we've heard this before and your powers to fortell the future are no "beuano".

"Knowing these realities, America must not ignore the threat gathering against us. Facing clear evidence of peril, we cannot wait for the final proof -- the smoking gun -- that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud."
- President Bush (Monday, October 7, 2002 in Cininnati, OH) in reference to Iraq's WMD programs

Carriers in the Persian Gulf, bases in Iraq, political sabre ratteling...

If WW III starts, it's cause we didn't stop President Bush from starting it*.








*Overly dramatic, I know... but you get my point.


Title: Re: Flat out lie...
Post by: Opmod on October 17, 2007, 11:49:18 AM
Quote from: Breitbart.com
US President George W. Bush said Wednesday that he had warned world leaders they must prevent Iran from getting nuclear weapons "if you're interested in avoiding World War III."
"We've got a leader in Iran who has announced that he wants to destroy Israel," Bush said at a White House press conference after Russia cautioned against military action against Tehran's supect atomic program.

"So I've told people that, if you're interested in avoiding World War III, it seems like you ought to be interested in preventing them from having the knowledge necessary to make a nuclear weapon," said Bush.

LINK (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=071017154505.rci3xjja&show_article=1)

With all due respect, Mr. President, we've heard this before and your powers to fortell the future are no "beuano".

"Knowing these realities, America must not ignore the threat gathering against us. Facing clear evidence of peril, we cannot wait for the final proof -- the smoking gun -- that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud."
- President Bush (Monday, October 7, 2002 in Cininnati, OH) in reference to Iraq's WMD programs

Carriers in the Persian Gulf, bases in Iraq, political sabre ratteling...

If WW III starts, it's cause we didn't stop President Bush from starting it*.








*Overly dramatic, I know... but you get my point.

Dude, lay off the smoke, it will rot your brain.

you honestly believe that Bush is more of a threat the Amrinagotanfedupname in Iran?


Title: Re: Flat out lie...
Post by: Dog Face 11B on October 17, 2007, 11:52:56 AM
Quote from: Breitbart.com
US President George W. Bush said Wednesday that he had warned world leaders they must prevent Iran from getting nuclear weapons "if you're interested in avoiding World War III."
"We've got a leader in Iran who has announced that he wants to destroy Israel," Bush said at a White House press conference after Russia cautioned against military action against Tehran's supect atomic program.

"So I've told people that, if you're interested in avoiding World War III, it seems like you ought to be interested in preventing them from having the knowledge necessary to make a nuclear weapon," said Bush.

LINK (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=071017154505.rci3xjja&show_article=1)

With all due respect, Mr. President, we've heard this before and your powers to fortell the future are no "beuano".

"Knowing these realities, America must not ignore the threat gathering against us. Facing clear evidence of peril, we cannot wait for the final proof -- the smoking gun -- that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud."
- President Bush (Monday, October 7, 2002 in Cininnati, OH) in reference to Iraq's WMD programs

Carriers in the Persian Gulf, bases in Iraq, political sabre ratteling...

If WW III starts, it's cause we didn't stop President Bush from starting it*.








*Overly dramatic, I know... but you get my point.

Dude, lay off the smoke, it will rot your brain.

you honestly believe that Bush is more of a threat the Amrinagotanfedupname in Iran?

Of course he doesnt...but the democratic party wants you to be afraid of a fellow American more so than a terrorist.....


Title: Re: Flat out lie...
Post by: Abraxas on October 17, 2007, 11:55:08 AM
He's the one throwing around the WW III speech. If anyone is being overly dramatic it's him.

My only point is that I hope people look at the compelling evidence AGAINST invading Iran. Not only is there ANY proof that Iran is developing nuclear weapons, but an invasion would most certaintly be the WORST way to promote democracy.

It's a lose-lose.


Title: Re: Flat out lie...
Post by: zukiphile on October 17, 2007, 12:01:20 PM
He's the one throwing around the WW III speech. If anyone is being overly dramatic it's him.

My only point is that I hope people look at the compelling evidence AGAINST invading Iran. Not only is there ANY proof that Iran is developing nuclear weapons, but an invasion would most certaintly be the WORST way to promote democracy.

You seem to believe that the purpose of an action against Iran would be to promote democracy there, and that US or other action proposed would take the form of an invasion.

I see little evidence of either.


Title: Re: Flat out lie...
Post by: Hillary08 on October 17, 2007, 12:02:48 PM
Democrats want people to believe that Iran which sits on unlimited power supplies need nuclear power for peaceful reasons...   ::)

When Iran gets and uses a nuke they will rush to blame Bush for it, but until then they rather just sit and let it happen.

BTW..

You say "Flat out lie..." what is the lie here?

Are you syaing that becaue Saddam did not have the wepons the world thought he had means Iran does not also?  Is that why the president of FRANCE is fighting to stop Iran?
 



 


Title: Re: Flat out lie...
Post by: Opmod on October 17, 2007, 12:03:50 PM
Agreed but where was the flat out lie?

Let me go back and read it again maybe I missed it.

Nope still didn't ses it.

Now I happen to AGREE that military action outside of strategic air stricks would be stunningly ignorant.


Title: Re: Flat out lie...
Post by: Abraxas on October 17, 2007, 12:10:14 PM
He's the one throwing around the WW III speech. If anyone is being overly dramatic it's him.

My only point is that I hope people look at the compelling evidence AGAINST invading Iran. Not only is there ANY proof that Iran is developing nuclear weapons, but an invasion would most certaintly be the WORST way to promote democracy.

You seem to believe that the purpose of an action against Iran would be to promote democracy there, and that US or other action proposed would take the form of an invasion.

I see little evidence of either.

Promoting Democracy, no.

But what's the point of the bases? What's the point of the carriers?

Democrats want people to believe that Iran which sits on unlimited power supplies need nuclear power for peaceful reasons...   ::)

like a drug dealer, Iran knows NOT to use their own stash.

The less oil they have to use, the more they have to sell.

Quote from: Hillary08
When Iran gets and uses a nuke they will rush to blame Bush for it, but until then they rather just sit and let it happen.

I would rather let the IAEA tell me if Iran is building nukes, considering THEY ARE THERE and BUSH ISN'T. So far, the IAEA has recomended the US refrain from it's "Iran wants a nuke" speeches.

Quote from:
BTW..

You say "Flat out lie..." what is the lie here?

Are you syaing that becaue Saddam did not have the wepons the world thought he had means Iran does not also?  Is that why the president of FRANCE is fighting to stop Iran?

It means the president's powers of preception have been flawed in the past... the result of which was the present war in Iraq. If his judgement is flawed this time, you can expect a bigger problem.

Russia wouldn't look to kindly on the US if they started making trouble. Neither would China (a country already pissed at us right now) so why compound them?


Title: Re: Flat out lie...
Post by: Hillary08 on October 17, 2007, 01:27:28 PM
Ohh, ok so there is no LIE by Bush, and your title is the actual LIE?


Title: Re: Flat out lie...
Post by: Delta Nine on October 17, 2007, 01:41:00 PM
I wouldn't mind if Iran and Israel nuked each other. At least we wouldn't have to support the idiot jews anymore.


Title: Re: Flat out lie...
Post by: Abraxas on October 17, 2007, 01:49:00 PM
Ohh, ok so there is no LIE by Bush, and your title is the actual LIE?

Yeah, cause you've never said anything hyperbolic before ::) .


Title: Re: Flat out lie...
Post by: Dog Face 11B on October 17, 2007, 03:13:29 PM
Ohh, ok so there is no LIE by Bush, and your title is the actual LIE?

Yeah, cause you've never said anything hyperbolic before ::) .

And how many times have you called me a partisan hack.....love how the hypocrisy flows out.....

Like you havn't never called someone what you really are..... ::)


Title: Re: Flat out lie...
Post by: Toaster on October 17, 2007, 03:39:27 PM
If you think we are in Iraq to spread Democracy, you are hopelessly naive.


Title: Re: Flat out lie...
Post by: Abraxas on October 17, 2007, 04:15:19 PM
Ohh, ok so there is no LIE by Bush, and your title is the actual LIE?

Yeah, cause you've never said anything hyperbolic before ::) .

And how many times have you called me a partisan hack.....love how the hypocrisy flows out.....

Like you havn't never called someone what you really are..... ::)

I'm right to life, pro-guns, supporter of small government and a huge fan of the free market.

If I'm a partisan Democrat, than you're a fluffy pink bunny.


Title: Re: Flat out lie...
Post by: -And Justice For All- on October 17, 2007, 04:24:28 PM
You're right Abraxas, if anyone is going to start WW3 it's George W and his neo-con buddies. If they just quit making threats and keep on with diplomacy, Iran may eventually give up their nuclear research like North Korea. But as usual Bush is impatient and wants to rush into stupid decisions.


Title: Re: Flat out lie...
Post by: chevive on October 17, 2007, 06:07:46 PM


you honestly believe that Bush is more of a threat the Amrinagotanfedupname in Iran?


bush has shown that he is much more dangerous. he started two wars in base of lies and economic interests. thats a fact. like it or not


Title: Re: Flat out lie...
Post by: neue regel on October 17, 2007, 06:34:15 PM
Quote
bush has shown that he is much more dangerous. he started two wars in base of lies and economic interests. thats a fact. like it or not

Interesting talking point. I'm sure you can prove this or you would have never leveled such an accusation.

Perhaps you contact Harry Reid with this information and ask him to start impeachment proceedings immediately.


Title: Re: Flat out lie...
Post by: Cabrini Green on October 17, 2007, 06:51:19 PM
Bush loves his fear mongering, doesn't he?


Title: Re: Flat out lie...
Post by: 2112 on October 18, 2007, 05:12:44 AM
This war in Iraq has already gone on longer than WWII, and it doesn't look like it's going to end any time soon.


Title: Re: Flat out lie...
Post by: neue regel on October 18, 2007, 05:18:04 AM
We ended WW2 with a bang. Is your suggestion to take the gloves off now?


Title: Re: Flat out lie...
Post by: 2112 on October 18, 2007, 05:29:21 AM
We dropped a lot of bombs before dropping the big bomb, the war was pretty much over before we dropped the first atomic bomb. Do you think that another country should alleviate the U.S. of its weapons?


Title: Re: Flat out lie...
Post by: neue regel on October 18, 2007, 05:59:27 AM
We forget what REAL wars look like.

Stats from WW2....

The Soviet Union lost the most with 25 million deaths, but only about a third were combat related.

China's death toll is incomplete but estimates are between 15 and 22 million.

Poland had 6 million deaths including 3 million Jews, roughly 20% of its prewar population.

Germany lost 4 million soldiers and 2 million civilians, many of them women.

Japan had 1.2 million battle deaths and another 1.4 million soldiers listed as missing, almost 1 million civilians were killed in the bombing raids between 1944 and 1945.

Over 1.7 million Yugoslavs and 500,000 Greeks died in the war.

France lost 200,000 soldiers and 400,000 civilians.

Italy lost 330,000 people.

Hungary lost 147,000 men in combat.

Bulgaria lost 19,000 in combat.

Romania lost 73,000 in combat.

Great Britain lost 264,000 soldiers and 60,000 civilians in bombing raids.

The United States lost 292,000 soldiers.

The Dutch lost 10,000 soldiers and 190,000 civilians.

Australia lost 23,000 men in combat.

Canada lost 37,000 soldiers.

India lost 24,000 men in battle.

New Zeland lost 10,000.

South Africa lost 6,000.

These totals do not include the 6 million Jews who perished in the Final Solution of Nazi Germany or the 17 million dead as a result of Japan's policies in Asia from 1931 to 1945.

__________________________________________


The US doesn't have the fortitude to fight like this anymore. Could end up being our undoing.


Title: Re: Flat out lie...
Post by: Opmod on October 18, 2007, 06:01:52 AM


you honestly believe that Bush is more of a threat the Amrinagotanfedupname in Iran?


bush has shown that he is much more dangerous. he started two wars in base of lies and economic interests. thats a fact. like it or not

1 war nad there is NO evidence he lied and was not honestly misinformed like the greatest majority of people at the time.

Afgahnistan bright it on itself.


Title: Re: Flat out lie...
Post by: Opmod on October 18, 2007, 06:08:38 AM
We dropped a lot of bombs before dropping the big bomb, the war was pretty much over before we dropped the first atomic bomb. Do you think that another country should alleviate the U.S. of its weapons?

Actually Japan refused to surrender. It would have cost literally millions more lives to capture the Japaness mainland.


Title: Re: Flat out lie...
Post by: Toaster on October 18, 2007, 06:26:06 AM


you honestly believe that Bush is more of a threat the Amrinagotanfedupname in Iran?


bush has shown that he is much more dangerous. he started two wars in base of lies and economic interests. thats a fact. like it or not

There is plenty of eivdence that he lied and that his administration lied for him.

There was no threat of a nuclear bomb from Iraq.

There was no threat of "fleets of aerial drones spraying chemical death on US cities".

Iraq's WMDs were not a dire threat to the National Security of the USA.

As late as July of 2001, the official Bush stance on Iraq was that Iraq was contained, Iraq was unable to project military power and its WMD programs, while still coveted by Saddam, had not amounted to anything and that any stockpiles he had, would be chemical artillery shells of expired chemical weapons.

Since this has turned out to be clearly true, and as has been said over and over, no new data was discovered in the months leading up to the war, the truth is:

The Bush administration cherry picked minority report data, presented it as vetted and factual and sold it to the American public not as minority theory, but fact.

In short, the lied like Al Gore lied in Inconvenient Truth or Michael Moore in Farenheit.

There was no threat from Saddam's defunct WMD programs or expired chemical shells.

The rocket tubes were no suitable for uranium enrichment.

The fleets of aerial drones and payloads of chemical death did not exist.

When Fox announced WMDs were found, but it turned out to be poorly tested water samples, they were lying.


1 war nad there is NO evidence he lied and was not honestly misinformed like the greatest majority of people at the time.

Afgahnistan bright it on itself.


Title: Re: Flat out lie...
Post by: gkferris on October 18, 2007, 10:55:09 AM
We dropped a lot of bombs before dropping the big bomb, the war was pretty much over before we dropped the first atomic bomb. Do you think that another country should alleviate the U.S. of its weapons?

Actually Japan refused to surrender. It would have cost literally millions more lives to capture the Japaness mainland.

Yeah, but did we really have to hit Nagasaki? 


Title: Re: Flat out lie...
Post by: gkferris on October 18, 2007, 10:55:49 AM
Quote from: Breitbart.com
US President George W. Bush said Wednesday that he had warned world leaders they must prevent Iran from getting nuclear weapons "if you're interested in avoiding World War III."
"We've got a leader in Iran who has announced that he wants to destroy Israel," Bush said at a White House press conference after Russia cautioned against military action against Tehran's supect atomic program.

"So I've told people that, if you're interested in avoiding World War III, it seems like you ought to be interested in preventing them from having the knowledge necessary to make a nuclear weapon," said Bush.

LINK (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=071017154505.rci3xjja&show_article=1)

With all due respect, Mr. President, we've heard this before and your powers to fortell the future are no "beuano".

"Knowing these realities, America must not ignore the threat gathering against us. Facing clear evidence of peril, we cannot wait for the final proof -- the smoking gun -- that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud."
- President Bush (Monday, October 7, 2002 in Cininnati, OH) in reference to Iraq's WMD programs

Carriers in the Persian Gulf, bases in Iraq, political sabre ratteling...

If WW III starts, it's cause we didn't stop President Bush from starting it*.








*Overly dramatic, I know... but you get my point.

Dude, lay off the smoke, it will rot your brain.

you honestly believe that Bush is more of a threat the Amrinagotanfedupname in Iran?

Of course he doesnt...but the democratic party wants you to be afraid of a fellow American more so than a terrorist.....

Ever thought about using some of that GI Bill money for an education?