IAP Political Forum

How could Adam and Eve ever have sinned if God had actually created them perfect, even if they did have free will?  If God created them imperfect, how could a perfect omnipotent being create anything imperfect?

Don't try to think about it. Christian dogma collapses into a singularity of nonsense when you try to apply reason to it. The whole Adam and Eve story is retarded and makes no sense.

1. God is an all good, all perfect being who can see into the future, essentially, since he's absolutely omniscient.

2. This all good, all knowing entity deliberately places two trees within short distance of people he KNOWS are going to get tricked into disobeying him, yet he takes the time to tell them not to do it anyway.

3. Knowing they're going to do it, he walks off and does God shit somewhere else. The "rule" is broken, which makes him get angry, as if he's surprised or some shit. Upon this time, he punishes both Adam and Eve for something he already knew was going to happen and did nothing about.

4. What's even more absurd is he is tried to prevent them from accessing the tree of...knowledge. That's right. Knowledge. So bad, isn't it? It's ironic that one of the core stories of the Bible is God preventing man from attaining knowledge about the world--of reality. They are promoting ignorance already in the first story. When you violate the rule against learning reality, you are punished to a hard, torturous life.

5. Then they try to say "well, God wanted to preserve free will!" Well, that's bullshit too, since God routinely interferes in human affairs all throughout the Bible from helping them win battles, wiping out enemies, to sending cataclysms to kill everyone. The whole "cares about free will" nonsense collapses in on itself pretty quickly, since it's obviously God really doesn't give a shit about free will, maintaining human autonomy in the Bible.

The most logical answer is that he's a sadistic fuckwad who gets his rocks off by making flawed creations, setting them up for failure, and then freaking out and punishing them for shit he already knew they were going to do ahead of time.  This mentality is reinforced in the story of Job, where God virtually enters into a bet with Satan to see if Job will reject God after horrendous torture. God knows he won't, but he goes along with it anyway allowing Satan to torture him, actually encouraging him to try. Pure sadism. He's an asshole. Period. You guys worship an evil false God and pass him off as some bastion of morality. He's the metaphysical equivalent of a school yard bully and wife beating husband , and you have stockholm syndrome. 

Is it your definition of perfection?  The bibles?  The translator of the bible?  Care to show us what perfect means in the bible?  Is it all encompassing or limited to certain aspects (physical versus spiritual).

Why don't you research all of that, and then when you get it narrowed down, I 'll send you a quarter so you can call.

Why is it that atheists who don't think there is a reason for anything are obsessed with finding a reason behind something they don't even believe in?

The problem herein is the question of Gods perfection and the conflict between perfection and free will. Furthermore any discussion of an omni-God is a foolish conversation because it is discussing infinity and people rarely realize that most philosophical questions stem from improper use of infinity. Infinity is a stupid adjective because it is self-contradictory and language confuses the issue further. Consider infinity and other philosophical questions.

The problem of infinite regress?

Could God create a rock to which he could not create a force strong enough to lift?
If things are eternal all things shouldve occured?

What is matter made of, if it is infinitely divisible?

If their were an infinite # of causes before the big bang, then one of those causes must have been a pink fairy because if its not one of the causes, the chain isn't infinite.

Xenos Paradox

and many more... If one eliminated all the infinity problems within philosophy, we would reduce the number of philosophical questions to a great degree.

I agree, it is very clear that infinity has no real component in our world for the reasons you mention and many more. 

Perfection does not seem to have this problem and neither does free will. 

As to the "omni" nature of God, it is interesting that scripture does not use this term in describing God.  Theologians have however used  this term for many years as a summary of many descriptions of God in scripture.  It may not be appropriate for you to assume that these descriptions from scripture are intended to indicate infinite characteristics in the sense you describe.

By that logic 0.1111111111111111... is not an infinite decimal.

I had a thread to this effect on IAP1.0 - it was infernoed immediately.

BTW, you weren't Bobby on IAP 1 were you? You remind me of him an awful lot.

No, I wasn't bobby =D I am pretty new here.

This is just a fairy tale (IMHO). There were people on Earth before God placed Adam and Eve on the planet. Science has proven this....
Not to mention Adam died at the age of 930.

Do you guys really believe in this stuff?

I don't but the president of your country does.   Yes, people actually elected someone that believes that.

Yes, why couldn't he be more like Stalin.  ::)

At least you'd be dead.

Why couldn't he have been more like Stalin? Well, he'd just be switching from evangelical protestantism to Eastern Orthodox. Not that much better. It's a mistake to think Stalin was atheism or that atheism had anything to do with him being bad. Your confusing Atheism and Communism again. They're in fact different things. Soviet atrocities weren't due to atheism, but Communism. 

Good job mods.  Keep the civility flowing.

Nice try, but Stalin established atheism as the religoin of the state.  A tenet of communism is atheism.  I am not confusing it, I am simply stating how a certain type of atheist acts, an avowed evangelical atheist (much like you boys on this forum) acts.

Delta nine helped me make that point.