IAP Political Forum

What do you think is better for career advancement?

Changing jobs every few years looking for better opportunities which could mean more money and better position now as no one will leave their current job for a worse job, or staying with the same company and working your way to the top, which may take more time, i.e is slower but more secure because you know your company inside and out, you have a solid history with company.....


Please note that I delibirately did not add the self-employment option. This poll is strictly about being an employee.

I am still in college... so I can't say anything. But I *DID* want to monitor this, so I'm adding a reply.

I have been with the same company for 9 years. This is the only company I ever worked for.

On the plus side, I am very respected, my job has become a second nature to me even though it is not what you call routine as I am the business development manager (new title :) ) and I am very respected by the management.There is also job security as I know if they ever decide to downsize, I will be the last one to go.

However, I feel I have reached my limits. Like if I stay in the company for the rest of my career life, there won't be much more advancement, except maybe money wise, but slowly though.

Changing companies means an instant raise of at least 50%, if not more, better package but the risk of not liking the new environment, having to prove myself again, to fit in, remember a career change now means joining another company as an instant manager, and many people within the department would have been hoping for that position....

Surely your progress, title and the respect you had at your old buisness will transfer? I mean, when you change companies don't you have to put people as contacts of prior employment? Won't they talk to your old managers? Old coleagues? Plus, your resume' will look great.

It's not a total "reboot", is it?

I think changing jobs every few years, in general. But it depends on the person and the company, some companies offer great benefits for staying with them.

But like i said generally speaking, shop around. At least until you find one of those employers worth sticking with.

I would say it's preferable to stick with the same job, but only if you're getting what you want out of being employed there. I would say most of the growth I've experienced on a professional level occurred at a point when I had been working with the same people for a while. It's easier to learn necessary skills for a trade from more experienced co-workers once you feel comfortable with them.

Of course gaining employment is a vital skill in and of itself. The ability to present a good case for why a potential employer should hire you comes with experience.

I think the best is a combination of the two, but to be willing to stay put if conditions are good. I've had a few jobs that very easily could have led to quick advancement, had I not been stricken with the desire to move around so much and live in different places.

I think it depends on the person and their stage in their career. I'm mid-level (about 10 years as a professional web developer). At least in this industry it is hard to find people who stay at a company more than a year. My present employer is great, however I feel to get a raise would mean moving on to another company.

I have friends who jump every 6 months, and are now making quite a good salary. I typically stay around 2 years w/o a significant bump in salary before I venture onward.

On the other hand, I'm sure there are people out there who are "go getters" -- people oriented schoozers or who can climb the ladder rather quickly.

In the end it is your responsibility to set a goal -- determine and prove to your boss how you can effect the bottom line and justify your raise...otherwise, start looking :)

I agree chovy...there are a lot of variables that need to be taken into acct.  Industry is prolly the most important factor IMO.  I would think that working in the software industry allows for the most company jumping.

I would prefer to work for one company that treats me right for my entire life, but thats pretty idealistic.

So would I -- but what I want, and what I am offered are rarely the same.

I would suggest staying with the same company especially if they offer a real  pension not just a 401K. Your time with the company will add to your pension payouts. If I stay with my current company I can retire at 55 and live a comfortable life. I would like to retire earlier but I don't think that is possible unless I hit the lotto or make a lucky investment.

I wish I was in an industry w/ a pension...fire + police get around 90% of their salary from what I've heard...I'd be stoked with that.

Unfortunately, in most companies there is no pension in my field (tech)...and my only hopes is a 401k that could/could not have a positive return.

Could you find work in a "traditional" company doing tech work, rather than just a tech company?

anything is possible...typically though from what I've seen is that traditional companies that aren't focused on the web (my field) don't have a lot to offer.

Relaly good topic Cedar  ;D

Okay, first thing we need to know are your long term and medium term goals, career wise.

This is important, because IMO there are three reasons a person is an employee

1)To learn/gain experience in chosen field
2)Because they love working there
3)For financial remuneration.

Okay, if people are at their work for option 3 then it is a really bad choice. Short term okay, but you will not become wealthy by being an employee for any length of time. Self employment/business ownership is way to go for that.

Which then brings us back to option 1 and 2.

Which ties back in with the goals question I asked you. Is your current job providing you with valuable experience and knowledge for what you want to do later in life? Is your current job something that you have a passion for and enjoying spending time there?

If the answers to both of these questions are no, then you are only passing time in your current employment and need to re evaluate your life goals, and strategy on how to get there.

Anyway, that is just my opinion on it. I must profess to being biased against employees against self employment from a financial perspective. Please take that into account haha.

It is true that it is not total reboot, but you still have to justify your employment, to prove that you are as good as they thought you are when they hired you, whereas this is something I have for granted now.

And this means longer hours at work, because each company has its own culture, to familiarize with the environment. In my line of business, it is very important to know how things work, and the procedures within each company are different, the back office, the IT systems...I am in business development and unconventional projects. The most important thing in my function is to know as much as you can the points of strength of the company and the constraints you face. These differ from company to company. So even though my experience is valuable, it depends on factors that I can't transfer from comapny to company. It has taken me years in my current company to reach this level of internal knowledge about the company.

Now I just ask set the procedures without having to turn to the IT departement or the accounting or the technical department....i.e. I tell them what I want, not ask them if this is feasible because I know our strength and weaknesses.

I don't know if I explained myself properly  :-\

Here is the thing Fort. I agree with you about self-employment but this not currently an option considering the situation in Lebanon.

About employment, of course no one can know everything about their jobs, but I feel that the pressure is bigger than the reward in my case, both financial or experience wise. For example, let’s say we are launching a new product. We have to study market demand (done a zillion times), meetings with the lawyer (another zillion times), the IT system (same), the brochures, the contracts, the proofreading, the printing…. Consider the proofreading. I have done it a million times, but each time there is the risk of mistake that would cause us to throw thousands of dollars worth of printed materiall. So even though there is no major new thing to learn, the pressure is always the same. This is one example of course, sometimes the projects involve much bigger risks.

2)Because they love working there
I have to admit that I love my company. I have been there for a long time, and most of the people there are my friends. Even though they get on my nerves sometimes, and I feel I am going to just quit and start over, this feeling never lasts long ;D So yes this is one of the major reasons that keep me there.

3)For financial remuneration
As for remuneration, as you said, there is only so much money you can make from being employed, so, again, the best option for those who want to make good money is to start their own business. I can do better if I look elsewhere, but then again, once I told my GM that I wasn't happy with my pay and got an instant raise (a pretty significant one). So I can get a raise now without having to leave.

I am not sure what I want honestly. What really makes me wonder is whether I want to stay in the same company until retirement. If I am able to start my own business I would definitely go for it. In fact I can do it now if it hadn’t been for the situation in Lebanon. But otherwise, do I want to spend my whole life in the same company? I know I can’t go much further than what I have now, and actually I am not sure there is a better career path in other company as well. I mean top management is not accessible because most companies in Lebanon are family businesses, even the big ones, and family always comes first. So...

After reading through some of my responses I want revise my advice. I think it is important to change jobs a few times before settling down with a company. 1) It gives you a vital cross section of experience in your field 2) It lets you know what different companies have to offer 3) Done at the right time you can increase your income. But in the end I do believe you need to settle down with a company to obtain a maximum benefit. For example the younger you start with a company the younger you can retire, also, many company increase you yearly vacation time the longer you have been with them.

Thief, what is the goal or main reason you work for the company?

My main reason is because it allows me to use my skills(electronics) for a greater purpose. My company manufactures cell analyzers and cell sorters. they are use in in clinical environments to diagnose health problems like HIV, leukemia and lymphoma. They are also used to look for cures and more effective drugs to treat these diseases. It feels great to be a part of that even in my small way(I just fix them when they break). That alone is enough to make me stay with the company but they offered me a lot more than that. The Financial renumeration is good, benefits pensions etc are all outstanding. I like the people I work with an the opportunity for advancement is good too(a VP, a director, an various levels of management all came from my same position.   

That is really good  :)I am happy for you. Job satisfaction and enjoying the surroundings are probably the most important elements to work. You have it in abundance. Well done  ;D

Flow cytometry or something like that?

Excellent guess!!! You nailed. I fix flow cytometers. Most people have no idea what they are so I usually just say medical equipment. I noticed you said you are a Phd in Biotech. Where do you work? Send a pm if its too personal for the forum.

I get way too bored if stay anywhere very long.  I've been with my current company for about 4 years and I'm getting pretty depressed. I'm only holding out for the stock options.  If that works out I'll start my own thing. 

Don't work for money, work for what you can learn.  I view all the jobs I've had as paid apprenticeships.  School is great but you'll learn a million times more on the job.  After you've learned all you can learn, move on to the next job or start your own thing.  Avoid getting too buddy buddy with your coworkers.  It's easier to leave when you don't really care about anyone you work with.  Remember, first and foremost, you're there to learn.  Avoid jobs where there isn't much to learn.

Good post!

I agree completely. I've looked at almost every job I've ever had as a learning experience. Most were shit jobs, but I've got some skill (more than my years of experience would suggest) now in many shit job fields and a few good ones.

When I was building houses, I even got books on methods, materials, codes, etc. After two years, I moved, got a new job, and I found myself the most experienced carpenter on one crew. I quit very shortly afterwards and got on a crew where the most experienced guys had decades on me. I actually took a pay cut to go on the more experienced crew, but it was worth it.

And now you're a carpenter and no one can take that away from you. You have the ability to build things. You learned all this while someone was paying you! What a deal.

found some good job sites out there:

http://www.telecommutejoblist.com/

Also, if you're hiring: http://jobthread.com offers a free posting.

I have to go with changing jobs and my only reasoning is...

If I was at my first real job, I would still have no benefits, no vacation/personal time, and no respect.  I have been fortunate enough to experience first hand that some companies will only pay you just enough to get by and usually never pay you based on your experience and loyalty.   

Which would be a moderate plus with the managment types but to the plebian workers she would be stepping "over: thier heads.

I decided a loing time ago that I could not be concerned with how others will feel about the decisions I make. I need to do whats best for myself.

I would say you sell your self short, don't live up to your potential if you stay where you at at Ceder. Just based on what you posted.

I agree -- I am discovering that "loyalty" is a destructive ideology.

Do whatever it takes to make you feel good, or to fit your budget.
For me it was every year a new job, until 5 years ago I landed this pretty good environment job, where I am today. I can tell you that I am bored to death, but I make fair enough money and I am tired of repeating the same scenario over again. All the companies are same crap, politics everywhere you go. Just get my paycheque and get the hell out of there by the end of the day.In other words "In and out" :)

IU completely disagree and so do the stattictics. I recall reading where people live longer if they have job satisfaction.