IAP Political Forum

Check out this email I received from a Republican friend yesterday about the new movie that's coming out soon, The Golden Compass.


I would say, having read the books, that it really didn't occur to me throughout the books that they were anti-religious, but then I'm not religious so I guess I just didn't pick up on it. The end of the last book where they kill God, I did not see coming, and I actually think it didn't fit in with the rest of the books, it seemingly came out of nowhere. As far as I am concerned, these books are great science fiction for children and I would have been more than happy to read them if they were around when I was a child. Something about the Narnia books always seemed so boring, I never could read them even when we were required to in class, but these His Dark Materials books are much more interesting.

And anyway, I think it's a sad world that still needs religion to be moral. Why can't a Christian or Catholic entertain for even one moment that God could be the bad guy (science fiction..)? It's just a spin on the way things are, supposedly. It's fantasy, not religious doctrination.

I haven't read the books but if they stay popular I probably will.  If they are anti-Christian, as some say, then I probably won't let my young kids read them for a while.

2112, Christians are called to shephard their childrens hearts.  Christopher Hitchens says Pullman's books "actively pursues an anti-Christian agenda".  You can't see why some Christians might be concerned about this?

It will be interesting to see how this plays.  The Davinci Code got a lot of people excited even though both the book and the movie were horrible, I don't think it's the same in this case.

These are some of my favorite books of all time, I can't wait for the movie to come out, and I love that the uber-religious crowd is starting to make a stink about it, because it will just make the movie that much more popular and increase the chances of the other three books being filmed.

I don't think the books are anti-Christian, but they do have an anti-authoritarian church theme.  They're fiction and I really think anyone with any amount of actual faith in Christianity can appreciate them as a work of fiction.

Well, as for the Da Vinci code, the movie could have been better, but I thought the book was great. The message was a very good one, even if the 'facts' were not accurate, that women and men should be equal in the eyes of god and that women should not be supressed.

Even if these books persue an anti-Christian agenda, it's no reason to ban your children from reading them or seeing the movie. What you should do is talk to your children about people who don't believe in God and talk about why it's so great that you and your family do. You should also emphasize the fact that the book/movie is science fiction and not to be taken literally, but more as a what if.. type story.

I had an almost friend in 7th grade, Angela. We got along great and I really didn't have any other friends at that school at the time, so it meant a lot to me to find someone I got along with. One day she said something about God and I said I didn't believe in God and from that moment she stopped talking to me, and if I was anywhere around her she would ask me to move or go away. I thought it was ridiculous that we couldn't be friends just because she believed in God and I didn't. What she should have had was as much tolerance for my disbelief as I had for her belief. That is what should be promoted here, tolerance and understanding and acceptance. We should have had other conversations about it. There was also a time when some members of a church asked me to stop attending because I wouldn't read the Bible. They said I was a wolf in the flock or some such crap. I can't believe so-called Christians cannot accept those who do not share their beliefs to the point that they just cut them off. "I cannot handle differing views, so I will completely ignore those who disagree and boycott anything that is 'anti-religious'." I think that is a flawed way to be.

I read the books and found them to be a bit . . . odd.  I won't tell my kid he can't read them (which ensures that he will at some point), but I have to admit, I am very curious about the movie.  The first 2 books of the trilogy were quite good, but the second one really seemed to take a bit of a twist I wasn't expecting.  I think Christian parents would have an easier time reading the books with their kids and explaining it to them, then letting the read it on their own.   Every book or movie that the Church has denounce or banned I have watch or read because it just make me more curious about what is in them.  I know I don't like it when people tell me I can't read or watch something.  And besides, if I listened to the Church, I never would have got to see Life of Brian (awesome movie) or Dogma (another good one).  I am still a Catholic, so apparently those movies were not damning enough.   :angel:

Yeah, I heard this on FOXnews (surprise ::) ) and they were all saying it's basically a liberal conspiracy to get people to hate religion. They also said the penguin movie "Happy Feet" was a liberal conspiracy to get people to like gay people though, so their opinion on movies means little to me.

Anyway, what I find ironic is NO ONE rails against Narnia for subtely peddling Christianity, but this movie comes out, and suddenly influencing children with movies is a bad idea? What's the deal? I mean seriously... it's this kind of crap that makes me an atheist.

I know not all Christians think this way, but this BLATANT hypocricy just makes me want to puke.


Excellent point!






For the record, depending on how this goes, it may have to be moved to the "Philosophy and Religion" forum. Just throwin' it out there.

As a Christian, I want to apologize for the actions of my brothers and sisters.  This is one issue that makes me hate religion (but not faith or my beliefs).  I am ashamed that a church would turn away anyone who was there to listen to the message.  I know there are plenty of Christian that haven't read the entire bible.  Plus, who are we to judge you for your beliefs.  The main teaching of Christ is that of Love for each other.  To turn someone away or to not socialize with them due to them having a different set of beliefs is not very loving.  Even Jesus ate with the those who did not believe in God, he even sought them out.  How strong can a persons faith be if they can not have a friend who is of a different religion or of no religion? 

I enjoyed the book the DeVinci Code, but had zero desire to watch the movie.  I even read his other books, but found them to be the exact same theme each time and grew bored with them.  I think the biggest thing people need to remember when reading any of these books is what section did they find the book in.  Was it in SciFi/Fantasy or Fiction or References, etc.  If it was in anything other than Non-Fiction/References, then please remember, they are just entertainment.  Don't take them so seriously.

Or maybe into Books and Literature

Could go either way, I guess.

The longer it stays *out* of P&R (no offense to frequent visitors of P&R) the better chance there is of it turning into into a decent  debate.

I thought about P&R, but I also thought the email was politically motivated. There's no way they're going to kill God in this movie because it's based on the first book where I don't remember them saying anything about God period. So what you have is people who are taking the dissent over the books and causing a fuss over the upcoming movie, which no one has even seen yet.

This is the same puritanic witch hunt that the fanatics did to Harry Potter.  What complete rubbish. 

Kids don't even know what God is at that time of age.  The only concept they know of him is that he'll burn you in hell if you touch your wee wee.   

As a believer in Christ myself (Presbyterian), I applaud what you have posted Perrin. Religion's greatest problems come not from atheists and agnostics but from extremist nuts in their own ranks.

OswaldTheOsprey

2112, thanks for the input.  I never said I wouldn't let my kids read the book or see the movie and I never said I don't let them hang with people who don't believe in God.  I'm sure you can understand there is a time and place for many things... or do you show your children porn to make sure they are exposed to all aspects of life?

I'm not as apologetic as others for your bad experience with religion.  I'm sure there are plenty of religious people who have done many nice things to and for you.  You dishonor their efforts by choosing to cling to a few things... real or imagined.  I'd love to know the whole story behind the church that supposedly told you not to come anymore but that's neither here nor there.  Thankfully I don't judge atheists because of the few on this board.

The whole ordeal about books and movies like the "Da Vinchi Code", "Harry Potter", and now the "Golden Compass", is ridiculous. First off they are all works of fiction and in no way attack Christianity. They are just story and entertainment and all in good fun. Plus I'd rather have my kid reading a book or watching a movie, then breaking windows or doing crack. It's hard to believe that in this day in age that people still think that a simple thing as a book, movie, or videogame is going to turn their kids to Satan. That's like something the Puritans would think.

Some of the fanatics don't think that a mind is a terrible thing to waste. They think a mind is a terrible thing!

OswaldTheOsprey

I don't have a problem with you keeping things from your kids. I don't have a problem with religion or the religious, I have a problem with people's intolerance for certain things regarding religion. As if being an athiest is the worst sin in the world... it's just back to the same thought that if someone does not worship God then they are amoral. I don't think it's right.

Two girls in the church I was going to asked to meet me at Pizza Hut, I did and they layed out a long story before telling me that I was a wolf among the flock or sheep or whatever. It didn't bother me, because I wasn't all that into the church anyway. I just thought it was strange that they had automatically assumed that I couldn't be saved just because I didn't read the bible after they had tried 20 or so times to get me to read it, but I swear, it just didn't hold my interest. Reading it is like pulling teeth. I think what upset them is that I was friendly and nice and promised to read it but then I just never did. Maybe they thought I was a con or something.

I too have no problem with people keeping it from their own kids, the issue I have is when groups try to ban something (such as the Harry Potter books) to keep other kids from reading it.  So far, with this Golden Compass movie, it appears that they are just trying to inform parents what the movie is about, (though I will admit, I have not read that e-mail as I normally disregard SPAM in my inbox) so I can't say if they are being factually.  I have already had someone at my work come up to me and ask if I was a Christian and to warn me about this movie.  She was shocked when I told her I have already read the books (then, for fun, I informed her that I also read Harry Potter)

First, Out of curisosity, why did you attend?

Second, did these simpltons think all they had to do was preach to  believers? Whats the good in that?

Thirdly, if you can not talk to your kids about a fictional movie and discuss the differences between it, your beliefs and the world in general then I don't think I really waNT YOU advertizing thT YOU are a christian, you give us a bad repuatation.

I have to applaud you for that. 

Who was that third point to?  Where did anyone make the point you are refuting?

The third ppoint was a bout people who think this should be banned becuase they are so narrow minded and simplistic they can not sit down and talk things out with thier kids.

The kind of christian that would ban a book becuase he thought it was BAD. The kind who would ostrisize someone becuase she does not beleive. The kind of chrstian that would say "God hates Gays"

They give us a bad name.

I'm not sure, I was trying out churches with friends from school, as in, I would go to a church of a friend to see what it was like. But, I don't think I ever really 'fit in' to any one I went to. This one had a lot of youth and the two girls I'm talking about that were supposed to be my mentors or whatever they were were pretty young, late teens or early twenties. I don't think they were simpletons, we were always pleasant and nice to each other, which is why their meeting and speech didn't make sense to me. But it wasn't all bad, I was glad to be done with that church at the time.

Where did anyone talk about banning a book/movie?  You're imagining things, nobody remotely suggested that... or some of the other things you are bringing up.

2112, I don't doubt your story at all but it would be interesting to hear the other side.

Some churches are weird about things. Growing up, the church I went to had a very major split over the idea of original sin. My  Mom and Grandparents, along with about a third of the church split off to form their own church. In the space of about six months that church split apart over what is basically puritanism. Some of the members liked to have a glass of wine or a beer every now and then, some thought this was a sin against the temple of god. So, after that split, a third church, which met in a model home started. Soon, us and two other families split off (I had already stopped keeping track of why) from my grandparents and their friends in the church, joining up with a fundamentalist "non-denominational" church, where they happily roasted marshmallows while burning NIV and NKJ Bibles (and any other book that challenged their very narrow world-view). KJV was the word of the day. The level of restriction against women was just below that of Islam, and the level of propaganda control and spin would have made Stalin weep tears of joy.

In their defense though, they did speak out against bigotry and abortion clinic bombing. They were radical, but not violent or hateful. Racism and violence were openly condemned at the church and the pastor's message about hate against gays was that god would judge the gays alongside the bigots, and that it was contrary to the teachings of Christ for us to judge others.

TBH, 2112, I do remember hearing a lot of accusatory statements through all of the church splits. I heard the term "wolf amongst the sheep" many times. I think a lot of the people that look at things like this, and go on witch hunts to purge "unholy" or "evil" influences in their church are just drama queens. Some people just don't feel right without some sort of conflict brewing. I always got the impression that all the drama (the church splits and the shit-talking) had very little to do with Christianity, and much more to do with people acting foolish.

You were right not to sweat it though. Those women don't sound like they're very fun to hang out with. Overall, what I learned from those experiences, was that it's not little dogmatic beliefs that are important, it's how people treat each other.

All I learned from Church was how to sleep.  How much I didn't get to sleep and had to sing from Hymns from time to time.  Realizing this was to test my patience.  All for cookies and punch in the end.

JIMP, I would be more interested to hear the other side at 26 than I was at 17.

Illy, great story.

(http://www.digitalmediafx.com/Columns/JimHill/Images/LionKingImage.jpg)

Yes, and the Lion King promotes sex because of the shape of this cloud in a single frame of the movie.

Why are people so ready to take the opinions of others are valid, without even wanting to find out for yourself?

Those Christians better keep their kids from seeing this movie. They might realize how ridiculous Christianity is. We wouldn't want all that brainwashing to go down the drain.

Christianity is a virus and intentionally spreading it to young minds is child abuse.

Its interesting that more and more young Christians are growing up to reject it or at least not buy into the fundi crap. And how do the fundies combat this problem? By home schooling their kids in record numbers.  :-X :-X :-X

It's a shame that the option isn't available to more people. It's a good idea if the parent doing the schooling is well educated.

Care to post a link as to that assertion D9?