IAP Political Forum

Nation thread:

Just look at this filth!

http://www.anus.com/tribes/au/entry/17/Nationalism (http://www.anus.com/tribes/au/entry/17/Nationalism)

"Reasons for exclusion need not be rooted in hatred, nor does nationalism in any way necessitate the view that one's own culture is more righteous than another. I do not see universal validity in any one culture (the culture of fashions implicitly yearned for by promoters of multiculturalism included). I recognise that people are not the same around the world - there is diversity, and this should be preserved both for its own sake and as a means of avoiding a pervasive anti-culture where the acquisition of money is seen as the good. I think our differences are real, to be celebrated, and should be protected. To say otherwise is to be a sadomasochistic bigot regarding race and culture."

"Communities should not be forced into sparse residence of suburbia, within which attempting to live as they would like while being absorbed into a new way of life. Multicultural societies do not allow for cultural diversity in the long run, for there must be significant compromise. Our new residents must adhere to the overriding dogma of liberal democracy that let them in, which effectively homogenises societies into tacky individualists following a culture that, unlike the low culture of the past, lacks continuity, ingenuity, and bases status on consumption rather than creation. After a few generations whatever culture is left will be commodified remnants; the 'richness' of multicultural societies has a lifespan."

"...those advocating multiculturalism are merely supporting small-scale, incomplete nationalism... They are fond of ethnic communities being able to preserve their culture, attend their own schools and churches, learn their language and their people's heritage, hold community events, et cetera. Yet they so vehemently oppose nationalism, which strives for the same goals, but recognises that to accomplish and preserve these communities need their own territory and leaders who represent a particular way of life."

I'm a moron, so when reading that I get offended & think that counts as legitimate rebuttal. What about you?

You got that from a website called anus.com?  And you want comments?  Lol!

I'm as little bit confused by this. But it is making me laugh that it came from a sight called anus.com, so I'm gonna applaud this one.

I wasn't about to click on that from work.  But from home it is the Australian Nihilist Underground Society.  Lol!

I wonder what anus.net is...

Well click on it then. 

DO IT!  DON'T BE A GIRLIE MAN!!!

I'm good.

Must be exhausting...




[insert (in)appropriate exhausted ANUS joke here]

I'm not going to comment on...

(http://www.itmweb.com/bimages/uranus.jpg)

 ;D

thats always end up in there when Australians gettin creative,,,

Nice acronym, I know  ;D

What do you think about the ideas, though? (This is a politics forum after all).

Garden variety "Can't believe it's not racist" doublethink propaganda.

Any idea that starts out by trying to reverse engineer exclusion from a non-hateful standpoint loses my interest from about that point.

Anyone wanting to apply ethnic exclusionary principles to policy or public places is going to run into big opposition.



We were commenting on the website's name because that was the only worthwhile part of the whole thing.


(http://www.startribune.com/blogs/sinker/wp-content/uploads/0abeavis.jpg)

Huh huh huh, he said ANUS, huh huh huh.

Heh heh heh, heh heh heh.

Started burning books yet? You're either a Christian, or have a hangover consisting of a convenient 'good vs. evil' divide.

Labelling anti-racist ideas racist doesn't make them so, no matter how much you tanty.

See:
http://www.anus.com/tribes/arn/
http://www.anus.com/zine/db/race/race_and_culture.html
http://www.pan-nationalism.org/

Yeah, I noticed a common theme with your wanting to attribute a good/evil paradigm to me, and your link's 'good' and 'bad' theme. Funny thing is, I'm not a Christian as you suspect. I did in fact attend a fundamentalist church at the age of 10, where they did in fact burn books, mostly NIV and NKJ Bibles. Anything that wasn't a KJV basically. In short, I consider attending that church to be one of the more erroneous decisions my parents ever made. In fact I'm an agnostic, and I don't see things in a good vs evil paradigm, nor did I mention good and evil in my assessment of the post. I would argue that morality is a product of evolution, and is still evolving. By it's nature it is changing and subjective.

Seems like you were pretty wide off the mark regarding my stance on religion and morality.


From your OP:

"...those advocating multiculturalism are merely supporting small-scale, incomplete nationalism... They are fond of ethnic communities being able to preserve their culture, attend their own schools and churches, learn their language and their people's heritage, hold community events, et cetera. Yet they so vehemently oppose nationalism, which strives for the same goals, but recognises that to accomplish and preserve these communities need their own territory and leaders who represent a particular way of life."

Your article starts off with the idea of finding a reason for exclusion. Excluding people along ethnic lines is not the goal of multiculturalism.

Sure, nationalists advocating exclusion are *really* all about equality. They want everyone to look like them and be *ethnically* equal by simply excluding everybody who isn't.

The proposition is absurd.

You misinterpreted what I was saying. I said you were either a Christian, or have a hangover consisting of a convenient 'good vs. evil' divide. Your posts suggest you refuse to confront some ideas, with knee-jerk reactions in that moral brain of yours: "ooOOoo, that's naughty. I'm going to 'lose interest' because anyone against a consumerist global monoculture topped off with anti-depressants must be *racist* (or some such rubbish). You're being a bigot. Like... open your mind dude 8)

The latter part of your post is answered in the text you quoted.

Neither of your comments (concerning religion or morality) was accurate, nor is your characterization of my thoughts in your last post.

It's sad that what you posted is nonsense and that you have no rebuttal other than to try to tell me what I believe and how I see the world.


Just because you read something on a website doesn't make it true (especially if the website is trying to tell you that separatism and multiculturalism have the same goal). If you want to exclude people go do it on your own property.

Again, this is dealt with in the section you quoted. Multiculturalism strives for diversity, for cultural identity & group autonomy. But this is compromised with liberalism & becomes a doomed attempt. These cultures must function within liberal confines: a regime hell-bent on raising consumers & a government unable to represent their values, as to do so would neglect and offend various other nations under their rule:

Nationalism strives for diversity, for cultural identity & group autonomy. Nationalists realise that throwing a plethora of nations into a single state & assuring them they can preserve their way of life is a serious threat at best. Is it surprising that the next generation adopt a fashionable use of symbolism that sheds the meaning but keeps the tokens moving? These societies are built on the idea that a country is a mere convenience through which the individual can make some money & pursue an inane 'lifestyle'. Vicious individualism is generally not the finest way to induce holism. Startling, I know.


If someone thinks what I posted is nonsense, then it is their job to rebut, not mine...

Frankly, what you posted is incoherrant.   ;)

Man, I saw his name and his first post and was about to post that. You beat me :(. Applauded

Man, I saw his name and his first post and was about to post that. You beat me :(. Applauded
[/quote]Sorry...And thanks!

*Frankly, what you posted as Incoherrant is incoherent (?).

If someone thinks what I posted is incoherent, then it is their job to rebut. Otherwise it's a baseless, emotional reaction, or an attempt to increase a post count.

If people spent as much time developing arguments as they did throwing around unfunny one-liners, this place may stop looking like a kindergarten. Computer mediated socialising? [http://www.anus.com/zine/articles/cmc/ (http://www.anus.com/zine/articles/cmc/)]

Well no. Actually the OP is so dependant of ambiguous conclusions (i.e. communities are forced into multiculturalism -- we could argue all day about that before the OP moves on to it's conclusion) that people probably don't know where to begin. It IS incoherent. Much the same way as if I began a story about Noah's Ark that automatically assumed the story was real.


So if you spent as much time developing a more rational OP maybe people would bother spending the time to argue it, unfortunately we are mostly all too familiar with the 'assumptions' point and the extrapolations or leaps of logic that are ever present with threads like this.



Ahk

I'll just go with layman's terms here: How can you make a rebuttal if what the other person said doesn't make any sense?

Communities living in multicultural societies are subject to that society...

This is the logic you question?

A state accumulates a number of nations in its borders, preaches ‘multiculturalism’ (an entirely inaccurate term), & what are the people faced with if it was not their will? As for new residents, is what awaits them a more secure & prosperous grounding on which to establish their community, or a battle to retain their culture & values in the face of a government that cannot represent them, & pervasive marketing assuring them identity is about image, & therefore fluid.

Aside from this, the OP (which consisted of a few quotes from a larger article) asserts that nationalism need not have anything to do with hate & that multiculturalism is a misguided attempt to preserve diversity.

Oh, isn’t it great to be united by the knowledge that we exchange tokens in the same territory! What better basis could there be for holism, eh?