IAP Political Forum

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3112487 (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3112487)


OK, so I am not argueing the right or wrong of using steroids.

I am wondering under what grounds the US governemnt is using to conduct the probe to begin with. I mean if it is a drug investigation, then damnit let the Narcs deal withy it.

This is purelu a political ploy though. The governemnt stepping in where id had no jurisdiction and another example of what I consider a far more real threat to our freedoms than anything Georgie Porgie has pulled.

The governemnt is becoming more and more convinced that it has the right to barge in anyplace it wants and with increasing repercussions.

I don't agree that Bond should have overtaken Aaron record because he used a drug to boost his ability. But I do have a problem with the govt telling him what he can or cannot do with his body.

Its not about that though. If that was the case it would have been a drug investigation. Plain and simple.

This was a McCarthyesque inquisition in which the federal governemnt tried to govern a civilian league becasue it saw the public out cry and they thought they could get some good press from it.

Fucking Barry Bonds. I'm in the middle of writing my greatest sports article ever, and now I have to stop and listen to this.

I have a couple of thoughts on this.

Congress has the power to investigate pretty much anything it wants to - rock song lyrics, movie ratings, professional sports - you get the idea.  So if Congress wants to conduct hearings into whether professional athletes are using drugs, it can issue subpoenas to compel testimony from witnesses who are obliged to testify under oath.  If that testimony is false, then it's a federal perjury or obstruction charge.

Another thought on this is that Congress has granted Major League Baseball a monopoly.  (Unlike the NFL, where the American League sprung up, or the NBA, where that league that had the multi-colored ball sprung up - forget the name).  In any event, what I'm driving at is that the enforcement of that government monopoly (MLB is exempted from the provisions of the Sherman Act which govern antitrust violations) comes with strings.  MLB has to dance to Congress' tune.

Which do you think hurts baseball more?  Pete Rose gambling on games, or Barry Bonds juicing up to break Hank Aaron's record?  I think the latter.  If he is ultimately proved and convicted of using steroids, he should be expelled and his records purged because it affects the play of the game.

What's weird here is the timing.

1. Bonds' lawyers are unaware of any new evidence.

2. If there is no new evidence, this is just a last hurrah for the war on Bonds.

3. A judge ordered that Bonds' trainer be released from prison, which means he probably squealed.

4. If the trainer did squeal, then he probably said enough to wipe Bonds' records, or they would've waited long enough to get that evidence. It's already been four years, they wouldn't have rushed it.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3112982

im happy the govt jumped in. (no debate reason on why)
all these sports leagues are intrested in is money.
i hope mlb rides the nfls commish coat tails and starts cracking down on these rouge athletes.
they ruin the sport...... all of them. pac man jones, bonds, mcguire, sosa, artest....ect.

it is a witch hunt...not to say Bonds isn't a witch for taking steroids, but if he was not a record breaker, he wouldn't be under investigating.

(http://www.blackstate.com/images/barrybonds.jpg)


Anyone that claims Barry didn't roid up is crazy. No one puts that much muscle in two years. He must of put 60 pounds of pure muscle. Immpossible. I have lifted for 5 years serious and many years of  PT, the gym and running. I have gained only 18 pounds of muscle since I started my program 5 years ago.

i don't think anyone is disputing whether or not he takes/took steroids. I think the debate is whether or not he should be prosecuted...thousands, perhaps millions of professional athletes take steroids.

and they should all be held accountable.
and if they commit perjury then they should be treated just like bonds.
besides, how is it a witch hunt?
he had immunity if he told the truth.
they were after balco.

mcguire was smart about it.
he may not be nearly as loved as before his testimony but he didnt lie under oath and for the most part he has been forgotten about.

i agree.
im not challenging you here but can you show dates on those pics?
he didnt really do all that growing in only 2 yrs..... did he? ???

lol...obviously not...he hasn't played for the pirates in what, 20 years?

and comparing your weight lifting to his isn't a valid argument, unless you're as rich as Bonds, with the posse of trainers at your disposal.

I'm only saying that because your argument doesn't prove he took roids, although I'm pretty sure everyone knows he did, why else would he not be forthcoming?

I personally think the whole thing stinks, especially when baseball goes on strike about limiting the drug testing.

OK I got a few things wrong. This before picture is from the late 80's (sorry I don't follow baseball). Barry was at 180. The after picture is from 2004. He is at 238 now. That is 58 pounds of muscle in 15 to 18 years. Possible. But the difference is, he put most of his muscle on in a period of 2 years.

Chovy, Barry claims to still workout with his childhood friend not a team of trainers. Wonder why? ::)

BTW, I have a personal trainer plus while in the Army I could use the best equipment with a training schedule much like that of my college football days. Not even football players get the physical training soldiers get. I had a problem keeping the muscle because unlike jocks, we didnt have tables of high protein and fatty foods to pig out on.

i retract my statement regarding your weight lifting...obviously, you have been in the situation that requires an aggressive schedule (I lifted with a college football team for one summer, and it was a huge difference between that and working with a local 24/hour fitness trainer).

I didn't know about Bonds' childhood friend/dealer being his weight training partner...seems even more evident now.

Please...

Shawn Merriman tested positive for roids last year, and guess what, he's still playing and being allowed to knock people out every Sunday. I love how the NFL gives off the illusion that they crack down on steroids.

You know who does crack down? Golf. Check it out. (http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/news/story?id=3108204)

Nah that's not true, Greg Oden has put on 30 pounds of muscle alone since he got drafted :
http://cbs.sportsline.com/nba/story/10477946/rss

But after saying that, it's pretty obvious he took steroids, but so is almost every other baseball player most likely.

I didn't hear about that. Not good.

And I bet if he was tested he would be dirty......not to say that he took a whole season off to train (something Bonds never did).

Do you know anything about training? You cannot hit the weights everyday during a season. Twice three times a week at most. And the in season workouts are not even close to off season workouts. Plus seeing that Oden is 7 feet tall, it a hell of alot easier to gain weight when to have a 7 ft frame compared to a 6 ft frame.

There have been other home run sluggers to increase their weight. Some long before steroids.

OswaldTheOsprey

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p123/OswaldTheOsprey/IAP4/babe15.jpg)

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p123/OswaldTheOsprey/IAP4/babe32.jpg)
Babe Ruth in 1915 and in the early 1930s. (Corbis)

If you know anything about Babe then you know that his weight came from drinking and eating. He was quite the ladies man and would sit for hours eating and drinking with his women around him. I doubt he ever lifted weights in his life.

Yes indeed. And for most of those years he was drinking (1920-33) he was partaking of an illegal substance.

OswaldTheOsprey

would you not agree that football today is much more agressive in punishing its athletes then baseball and basketball?
i do agree they could all be tougher.
but
even the longest of journeys begin with a single step  :angel:

No, I would not agree.

KU should have been ranked #1 before the start of last weeks games....... would you agree there then at least?  :-\

On that, we agree. And you have been applauded.

get outta here...KU shouldn't be #1.

THey should be #4 IMO.  They have beat a bunch of crappy teams except for Kansas St.

Besides my ILLINI are better than them...You guys will crumble in a bowl game, b/c the jawhawks and bill self kinda suck.

smited for being an inherent idiot of the jayhawk nation.

Haha, spoken like a true Chicago fan. I don't even get mad at y'all even more. Applauded for continious self-loathing.

The biker guy, Lance Armstrong...he's managed to convince people he's taken them.

i would be stunned if i found out he took them.
he is a huge role model and if he took them after comming back from his cancer..... it would just be a shame.
i believe in lance armstrong. i hope im right

well, yeah...that's what most people think (including me). My doctor is absolutely sure he's taken them. I didn't ask him why he thought that.

EVERYBODY in bike racing takes steroids or dopes their blood. It's like NFL players taking vitamins or baseball players in the 70s and 80s taking uppers. On the Tour, nobody is cheating, because everybody is on drugs.

Like they used to say about Nixon back during Watergate: Everybody does it he just got caught.

OswaldTheOsprey

yup...or in Iran, public beheadings for royal woman who got caught "cheating".

Actually it depends on body type. I know a guy who gained about 60 lbs of muscle in his time in the Marine Corps.

I personally find it extremely easy to gain muscle mass, unfortunaly I lose it just as fast.