IAP Political Forum

What is an American?

Crevecoeur’s famous essay about American Ideals and farmers doesn’t need a definition, nor does Amendment I from the Bill of Rights published in 1791

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

For the above reasons America has become the dream of all; a refuge where oppressed people seek help, security and food.

Democracy was embodied in America and now with the help of president Bush is being spread all over the world.

The following video shows a short scene of America’s democracy in Iraq. Have a look and see if an American should be proud of it!!

Watch video :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WR6FkZAJGjE

download it:

http://www.archive.org/download/dmoqrate/DamaqratihAmericainIraq.avi

http://www.archive.org/download/diadf/DamaqratihAmericainIraq.avi

Actually, this is a clever segway from the "What is unAmerican" thread.

I truely think that dissent is the most patriotic thing ANY American can do. Legitimate disagreement with government policy and motivation creates conflict which creates debate which creates alternatives. In an ideal government politicians would find the happy medium between all these alternatives.

It is also American to understand these alternatives, even if we disagree with them. Why is socialism such a dirty word? Why is communism such a dirty word? Why is the green party such a "joke"? Why can't these alternatives at least be better understood? Alternatives should be cherished, not discouraged.

Damn shame it's not how it is anymore.

Does he want a dictionary definition of "American" or our own opinions?

A US citizen :D (technically speaking)

Anyone that loves freedom can be called a American.

 Heres what Websters says:
Main Entry: 1Amer·i·can   

Function: noun
Date: 1568
1 : an American Indian of North America or South America
2 : a native or inhabitant of North America or South America
3 : a citizen of the United States
4 : american english

So, I (being Irish and never having lived in or near America, hating quite a lot of the things the US had done/is doing and despising the gung-ho patriotic nonsense that Americans seem to love) am American?

"... can be called..."

It's your choice, IamMe.

It helps to be an actual citizen, but you get the point.

Loves which freedom? I'm not a fan of the freedom to commit mass murder.

OK, so I choose not.

An American is one who is born in the United States, or one who migrates to the United States with the understanding that he/she needs to embrace the moral ethics and freedoms that this country has fought so hard for.  Including religious freedoms.  They also need to learn OUR language.

Risinghigh

Well south americans dont count then..... ;)

I wasn't even thinking about South America ..... I was just speaking in terms of the United States of America - North America.  I could care less about South America ... except unless they want to migrate here to the U.S. - then they need to learn OUR way of life, OUR freedoms, and OUR language!!! -- AND THEY NEED TO MIGRATE HERE LEGALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Risinghigh

I see you didnt catch the wink......I agree with you....damn

Yes, because all of us who have taken Geography know that Mexico skips Central America and is really part of South America and not North.

Yeah don't start with that shit, you europeans are the biggest mass murderers of any people in history. You killed my ancestors, but you don't hear me bashing Europe at any chance I can get.

I agree with Totino's answer. No more, no less.

You and Totino agree?

I'm heading out right now to buy my lottery ticket.......

I know. I wrote that sentence and then had to go lie down for awhile... :)

Screw that Patton, Im running out and chraging up the old credit cards, its a sure sign of the apocolypse after all.

I killed your ancestors? I think that's libel.

When I think of "What's an American" I think of that song A-S-S-H-O-L-E by Denis Leary and the freedom to be one if we so wish.   

I bet the illegal aliens I this country just love you.  I didn't make you for one of those , "There is no such thing as an illegal human being," types. 

I would venture to guess that the only people who do NOT love FREEDOM, are the people in governments trying to take that freedom away, and even then they love their own freedom, so does that make every human being on the face of the planet American?

FreeinTX

It's amazing how much you guys love this freedom bullshit. All a President has to do is say freedom a bunch of times and he can do what he wants.

Oh, and there's no such thing as an illegal human being.

Let me define FREEDOM for you. 


That's FREEDOM, and Bush wouldn't know a GOD D-MN thing about it.  He called the Constitution, "... just a GOD D-MN piece of paper."

If I walked into your living room, started eating your food, sleeping in your bed, and took your job, would I be an illegal human being to you then?  Would I be welcome?  Should I get a say so in your affairs?  Can I have your address, I'm feeling a little hungry, about now, and I don't really like the way you think, and have something to say to your wife and kids about it.  There is a such thing as an illegal human being, we call 'em CRIMINALS, which is EXACTLY what you are when you violate several FEDERAL OFFENSES by illegally crossing our borders, and taking our jobs.

FreeinTX

Why are you censoring yourself?

You know exactly the phenomenon I'm talking about. Politicians pepper their speeches with the word freedom and the baying masses eat it up like tasty tasty custard.

Like when Lois ran for mayor on Family Guy.


Countries and private property are not the same and cannot be compared like this. And if you're hungry I'd be happy to rustle you up a sandwich. :D

I suppose I should spell it out: I'm for the free movement of labour worldwide: the only thing that should effect your job prospects is your ability to do the jobs - not that you happen to be born in Mexico instead of the US.

BTW, I'm 17 - I don't have a wife and kids.

My country is my home, and invading my country is invading my home.  As for free movement of labor worldwide.

It's simple supply and demand.  If you supply the maketplace with MILLIONS of Chinese steel workers who make 20 cents an hour, and work 14 hours a day, the demand for the steel workers who makes $20 an hour greatly diminishes.  If you supply the trucking fleet with Mexican drivers who make $10 a day to drive a truck 12 hours a day (that's right no regulation), the demand for the $10 an hour truck driver who can only drive 8 hours a day by law, severly plumets.  Now, the American middle class is what made us the greatest country in the world, why in the hell would you want to punish these hard working Americans, by handing over their jobs to people are DESPERATE because their government is so corrupted that they are allowed to STEAL the countries resources without giving a penny to the people of that country?

Did you know Mexico has THREE TIMES more natural resources than the United States?  they are NOT a poor country.  The brand name Valero gasoline, formerly Diamond Shamrock, is the Mexican national gas company.  Yet the Mexican government, and the elite 10% of the countries businessmen, don't give one single red cent back to the people of that country in exchange for taking their resourses.  Now, instead of doing the right thing and demanding that the government give back to the people they are stealing from, and taxing the sh-t out of them until they do, the United States President signed agreements that allow these Mexican truck drivers to enter our country and steal jobs from American truck drivers, and allow jobs to go to Mexico leaving the American middle class worker un-employed or under-employed.  Do these Mexican truck drivers know how to drive trucks?  Who the hell knows, the Mexican government is the most corrupt government in the Western hemisphere, who knows what they are doing to ensure trucks are skilled at truck driving.  We know that not all of them can read English. How do you think they will handle driving trucks in snow?  In Michigan where all the signs are in English?  And who are you gonna sue, if they make a mistake and do harm to you or your family?  A Mexican corporation?  Good luck with that!!!  In the Mexican courts?  LOL!!!  Yea right!!!

You wanna collapse the wages of every American citizen in this country?  Allow workers from poor desperate countries unfettered access to the American job base.  The middle class will slide into two groups real quick.  1% will get rich, the rest will get real poor, real quick.  The American middle class will look like the Mexican peasant class in no time flat!!!  Now, this country has prided itself on the American midddle class, and paying a decent wage for a decent job done.  And this will NOT stop at blue collar work.  Soon enough, as the internet educated the BILLION Chinese in ALL areas of the work force, they will soon enter the job market in business, law, nursing, engineering, computers, etc.  If these free trade agreements are allowed to continue, and even expand, wages for nurses, lawyers, doctors, and engineers will plumet as well.  Doubt that? 

Look at Cuba.  Because of Castro's socialist programs, many female government employees, (lawyers, doctors, business women, included) subsidize their incomes with a little prostitution on the side, to make ends meet.  I couldn't believe it when I saw a female doctor talk about being a prostitute to pay the bills.  It seemed unreal, but it happenes in Cuba, and will happen in this country if we let Cuban doctors come here and drag the wage down to that of Cuba, or China, or any other third world country where people are FORCED into depressed slave labor made possible by FREE TRADE!!  China has no minimum wage, no job regulations, no EPA, no OSHA, no organized labor, no retirement plan, no wrokers rights, no nothing, yet they win GLOBALIST UN awards more than any country in the world.  Why?  Because slave labor is good for rich businessmen.


FreeinTX   

There is a third option other that rampant exploitation or keeping out the wetbacks - you can protect immigrant rights, you can ensure that they are not exploited etc. Illegal immigrants will come whether they are allowed to or not. By making them illegal you allow them to be exploited since they cannot register and don't pay tax they are not entitled to state protection.