IAP Political Forum

Well, I really thought it might take till next year, but it seems like oil might hit $100 a barrel before the end of November.


With out a doubt, a price hike will appear soon after to consumers and HOPEFULLY a rallying (if not deafening) call for energy alternatives will start. Especially with the timing of the US elections, one can only hope it becomes one of the major debate topics at the presidential debates.

With that said, what is everyone banking on as the next form of energy?

My bets are on nuclear. If the eco nuts could do some research before they start writing their protest signs, they'll see that nuclear emits ZERO green house gasses and is one of the cleanest forms of energy that exists. There are places on this earth that can store spent fuel for millennia. Not to mention the added benefit of an increase in the hydrogen market (seeing as Hydrogen is a byproduct of nuclear power generation).

We build more nuke plants, promote hydrogen fuel cells for cars and in the meantime we research heavily into solar power, so that when nuclear fuel becomes scarce, we can fall back on a (virtually) unlimited source of energy: our sun.

How do we do this? Set benchmarks for solar research, like the "X Project" did for private space flight. Give prizes and grant tax breaks and incentives to companies that cross threshholds of solar power efficiency (20% then 30% and so on) and companies that would use solar power generation on their office buildings.

That's my plan. What's yours?

As a self-appointed "eco-nut" I will say that I agree in practice but not in principle.  That is, nukes are the only way to go right now, but they are trading one future problem for another - though, perhaps a better trade-off.

I just see that we eventually have to get on to the next cleaner fuel ASAP.

So, yes, nukes, but lets not get comfy.  I agree: start a challenge with prize money and all the fame that it would afford.

We are probably looking at something like this happening in the next few years, and it may usher in a new age of science, cleaner environemts and more energy (which usually brings on more prosperity for the general population).

- I dislike nuclear fission energy. Its real price is being kept secret, and it creates a trouble that will last for thousands of years. You can't just bury it and forget about it as someone may go and unbury a bit of it to spoil the day. And that will be true for thousands of years. In this way, nuclear fission is the ultimate slap to responsability towards the future generations, the ultimate selfish act.

- Hydrogen is a dud. It's good as a way to concentrate low density energy (like solar) into a high density form, but it can't beat electrical batteries as a mean to store electricty for transportation. Hydrogen is a poor substitutive of electricity. Watt per Watt, it's quite more proficent to fill up a battery than manufacture hydrogen and fill up a tank. OTOH, fuel cells using hydrogen rich biofuels could save the day... just biofuels aren't much of a great idea so far. Maybe second generation biofuels, obtained from vegetal waste, will be better than the current "burning food" biofuels. In whatever way, alternating internal combustion engines (ICE) are dead. A day will come when the only ICE left will be all turbines, the most proficent of all ICE.

- I feel that solar energy is fine now. It only needs mass production. It's unbelievable that after 40 years solar cells still are a quasi-experimental thing, produced by the thousands more than by the millions. Use them massively and cost will go down massively. That's Capitalism 101. Don't wait, rather spend public money in it until private fatasses are forced to get on board or miss the big business of turning barrens into power plants.

- Wind farms are another great idea. Windmills are the cheapest and most lucrative alternate energy. They pay back themselves in 6 years and last 30 years with minimal entertainment. They also have a smaller footprint compared to solar energy.

- "Blue energy" is the most exciting idea in the scene. Rendering 1 Megawatt per cubic meter of salt water (+1 cubic meter of clean water), its potential is massive. Anyway it's a long way until ion-selective membranes become commercially viable (aka competitively affordable).

- Also we need massive storage capacity in order to avoid the main shortcoming of alternate energies -they are natural and thus out of our control. I personally pet the idea of closed-circuit hydroelectric plants fed with salt water (or treated waste water). Pump water uphill when power demand is low and let it run downhill when the wind stops, or it's raining.

I am not a big fan of nuclear power either, mostly on the disposal issue.  Still no real viable solution there.

Solar has come a ways, but has a ways to go.  But TONS of cash is being spent on it here now. 

As to your storage idea.  I like it.  So did Public Service Company of Colorado.  See here... http://www.xcelenergy.com/XLWEB/CDA/0,3080,1-1-1_1875_4797_4010-3663-2_171_258-0,00.html .  We've been doing that here in Colorado for 40 years!  I wish we would do some more though...

Yes, disposal is the elephant in the room.

MZL, I've always been a fan of tidal energy. It seems there is a lot of potential in terms of Work > Energy.

Let the Moon do some work for once, She's been just tagging along for the ride for millenia and not doing a damn thing... ;-)

We have similar things here, but they are standard dams with a lower dam to hold water, and the pumping machinery. What I was thinking was a solution for places where dams can't be built or there's no river that can be damed. Also as a mean to spare clean water, using some water that would be useless otherwise. Maybe even could be worked out with underground depots near the shoreline, although excavation cost could be a killer...

We need to invent a methane extraction unit and hook them up to the rear ends of all the cattle in the world. this will help because methane is a greenhouse gas AND it can be burned as fuel.

sounds dangerous.....

(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g234/Andrightlyso/cowfart.jpg)

I agree, too risky. What if this gets into the wrong hands?
(http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m206/allpoints360/blowhard.jpg)

Whats funny is that I have a friend who's a lawyer and has stopped practicing to make the things you are talking about. I'm totally serious.  I will find out what company he works for and send a link.
Basically, they DO make those "cow fart catchers" for big farms and he is making them for smaller firms.

Ya gotta love the new Eco-economy!

Seriously, Bush should try and benefit from it. Everyone said Clinton's economy was spurred by the Tech bubble.

Energy and the Enviroment should be Bush's.

That would be asking a (not very bright) leopard to change its spots.  He's an oil man with a cabinet of oil men; wildcatters.

But there is a coming tech boom.  Clean and personal energy, water filtration, hydroponics (growing more food on less land), genetically modified everything, information technology integrated into all aspects of our lives, etc.

I hope part of it is Extra Long Life Juice.  I want to see this new world!