Took ya a while though. see you in a while as ............??

Bye asshole!

Fred wrote:

Here's a nice little summary of the Halabja gassings and the Pelletier report. I'm posting this only in the interest of informing those who aren't up to date with the facts. And also as an item for discussion on who really gassed the Kurds. It's a hard choice to make for Americans and that's the reason why it's still hotly debated. And a very good reason why Saddam should have been brought to trial on this specific issue.

I have little doubt that this was one of the many reasons why the US seen to it that he was executed posthaste!

Thank you and it shirley doesn't matter to me whether you take part in any topic that I take part in surely. If you bring up any valid points which I feel need addredding then you will get my attention. Your last post offered nothing. ;-(

That too if it helps.

Look neo, have a glance of Abraxas' response #99 to my post to him on the 'has Israel a right to exist' string. Specifically his last line calling me a neocoservative or dumb. Is there really any hope for this forum when your moderators are all f---ed up themselves and don't want to run a decent show?

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

911 is dick all in the present scheme of things. If it was then Saudi would be toast, as well as Afghanistan's resistance and that of Pakistan. There are bigger fish to fry in the M.E. for the US and that starts with consolidating control over the oil and eliminating any resistance to that task.

Sometimes it's just necessary to cut through all the bullshit.

No argument with that neo. Now see that you make it clear to the ones who wanted it that way from the beginning of my experience on this forum. There's no credibility to be had by coming down on me and ignoring the rest. HOwever, if you want to do something constructive about the problem maybe you should be the boss around here. You would need to deal with the current one. ;-)

I find there is really little to disagree on with intelligent people such as yourself. If I say anything you can't agre on then please don't hesitate to let me know. Frankly, so far on this forum I have little reason to believe that there is much capability of doing so by the prowar side. And I'm not referring to you as prowar but I certainly get the impression that you have justified your war. THat's a huge problem for me.

Yes and yes. You must be right.

Ahkenaten- Be quiet, pay attention, and listen for a while. You're wasting cyberspace much more than you are causing me any discomfort.

Look Fred, there's not much denying that the US demanded the offing of Saddam along with his sons to keep them quiet. To pretend that they have and had all the answers is just plain ridiculous. An 'is, is not' argument between us is only scratching the surface and unless we are to get into examining the facts more closely than you appear to be willing to do then it's a waste of time. Give me something to work with and I'll be more than happy to oblige. The simple fact is that the US should have ensured that Saddam was tried in an impartial world court for his alleged crimes against humanity and it should have been open to the scrutiny of the world. And the US had every right to demand that if what they charged and alleged was true. It's really completely incorrect according to any justice system to execute a person before the complete details of the alleged crimes are examined. I really wish you would at least relent a little on that so I could take you seriously.

Good post Fred and I see we essentially agree on much of it. I'll try to respond to the pertinent issues you raise because I think it does deserve a detailed response. And to start with I will just remind you of the US' manipulation of oil prices to $14/barrel prior to the Gulf war as a deliberate attempt to cause Saddam to take action to save his economy. I'll also ask you to prepare yourself to defend the fact that you are thinking on a much too small scale if you are attempting to put this war down to manipulation by oil companies. This is the common mistake most people make and the conclusion they come to once they understand that the war is for oil. It just doesn't square with reality and for that reason it's never answered the questions.

It's also worth mentioning the lack of cooperation of Saddam with US interests and his threats of dealing in Euros for oil. Also the ongoing threat of an Iranian oil bourse which plays an important part in more current events.

Yes, I stated the obvious in the sense that I made it clear that the war is all about oil. I think you should at least recognize the fact that most of the prowar side has not come to terms with that elementary truth and that is the reason why they didn't get involved. Obviously along with that addmitting goes the guilt IMO.

So let me give you a quick little analogy: Imagine I'm the ruler of a island nation in the middle of nowhere and I have a huge cabbage crop which I sell for profit. You are the ruler of an island close by which is quite incapable of growing it's own cabbages for some reason and you really have no other source of food. (oil haves and have-nots) I will sell you my cabbages but I want an exorbitant price for them. So high a price that in order to feed your people you can't even afford to clothe them properly because all your efforts to produce cotton go to trade with my island nation. Oh, and I might add here, I don't like you anyway because I have already had bad experiences with your people coming to my shores and murdering my people. Now this puts you in an uncomfortable position, even in fact a very untenable position and you need to do something about it. Your course of action is obvious.

Does that help? It's as simple as that Fred, once you come to the understanding that the world is very rapidly advancing toward the crunch where affordable oil is no longer available. I would suggest that you probably understand that the US reached that understanding about 20 years ago and is really only in the process of looking after it's interests. I find that much, much more plausible than thinking that rich oil barons are controlling the fate of the US and it's very existence in the 21st. century as the obvious threat of terrorists getting their hands on a nuclear weapon and turnign NY into a glass parking lot. Or worse yet. The US continuing prosperity along with it's gluttonous appetite for oil to maintain it lifestyle is the only reason it's worth it.

Respectfully. Your thoughts?

No, my opinion is entirely representative of the facts. The fact in question is that it was a revenge attack on 911. It's rather ridiculous to think otherwise!

Therefore the truth of the matter is that the US attacked Iraq in 1990 and also aided the apartheid regime of the Zionists which has resulted in the deaths of  thousands of innocents. Along with the simple fact that the US is meddling on the Arabian peninsula against the wishes of the people who live there. The US is only invited by corrupt monarchies. The people, expressly, the people of the region support the goals and methods of Osama whether you like the idea or not. They hate the US and the US occupation of Iraq and the US presence elsewhere in the region for the most part. Those few citizens which the corrupt monarchies benefit of course know how their bread is buttered, I will admit.

I understand that accepting that 911 was a revenge attack is difficult for you to do but it's absolutely necessary in order to make any progress. I fear we are at an impasse already. It doesn't matter all that much to me though as I will just continue to enjoy the exchange of ideas with those who have come to terms with the facts. Have a nice day.