Whatever Patton. You're straight up lying to me.

Don't dismiss the point as though I simply find it entertaining. Answer it. Or are you under the impression having faith is another way of saying you don't have to take responsibility? Why are we living in "Revelations" today and not 100 years ago or during the cold war? because you're here now and so it makes more sense?

Because you say so? Because you believe it and stamp Gods face on that so now you don't have to rationalize it because now it's not what you believe, it's what God believes?


Of course you're talking about the Republican religious right here right? They are the ones demanding their religion be taught in schools and not anyone else's.


Unless that's another Democrat president right? Or in truer words unless it's not what you think it is.



You dance around a simple point. My the gymnastics you must go through to not answer. You and the religious right you defend with your silence have and will scoff and laugh at people in history and today who claim it is Gods will that they be leader and that they are carrying out Gods will. You can see the problem easily when it's other people/nations and other Gods but all of a sudden it's completely reasonable when it's your God and you're Party. You don't want to face that so you hand me the sentence of crap above.


Again you do not match the answer with the question. In fact it's nonsense.

 I'll spell it out again: what about people who are not religious? They should just leave the country? They should not vote? Maybe they should just die? Maybe they don't matter because they're not praying to your religion?

Why not just drop this pretend act of yours like you're patriotic and just hand your country over to the people you know full well are wackos and burn your constitution at the same time.?


Yeah but that's not what we're talking about is it Patton and you know it. Why are you playing games?  We were talking about promoting the idea that you or anyone else knows what God plan is and why it is false and wrong to sit there and say vote democrat and you wont go to heaven or that Bush thinks it' Gods plan to go to Iraq and if you're against that then yuo're against God and if you're against Bush you're against God.

THAT's what we were talking about Patton not "prayer", and you tried to imply 85% of the people think that way.



There's that condisending bullshit again. ""I'm a person of faith so I know, and I don't need to be reasonable and I don't need to think and I don't have to prove or justify anything, and since you're a non-believer you'll never know..."


Whaa-whaa. I haven't mocked your faith once you crybaby. I'm speaking to you as one man to another and you just can't seem to cut it. Deal.

Whatever Patton. You're a lying condisending shit and im done with you. Go ahead and tear your country apart with your midieval bullshit. Suits me fine.



lol. You win.
Ahk

 

Hey that's great. Too bad Palin raised more money for Obama than people who fall for her speech will.


Yep. Keep it up there Hockey Mom.

Too bad this is the biggest load of hypocritical crap I've seen in a long time. "Eww! Don't judge me because I have an unwed pregnant daughter"...well who started that kind of judging? Republicans that's who...blah blah blah "Single parents are ruining this country...blah blah blah"


Ahk

No he'll just post threee new threads

In context of the conversation that doesn't even make sense.
I ask again, instead of conceeding the surge worked should he just pretend it doesn't matter and hand people back a bunch of crap that doesn't address it?
Should he have just said "I don't remember saying that" like so many in your party do?
Should he just sit there and continue to deny reality in the face of it like the Bush admin has done for 8 years?
Why don't you like answering that stuff plainly and truthfully Reaganite? Do you really hate truth that much?

The surge (maybe) got the troops and Iraq out of the hot water Bush and Rummy put them in and that's all there is to it. You don't convince me now trying to pretend it was anything else.



Again I ask so don't avoid:
Where is that kind of honesty in the Republican party? Busy having sex in the washroom?

How does a 6 1/2 year failed policy in Iraq get waashed away by a surge that should've come years earlier? How does Obama seeing it for what it is now and admitting it make him look even remotely as bad?

How can you say Obama voted against it and that's bad, while Bush didn't think those extra troops were needed for 6 years and that's "experienced leadership"?


Ahk

So? What's your point? And he admits it and carries on. That's what a leader does, they face reality and they deal with reality. No point doing anything else. They don't just sit there and say the same meaningless crap over and over again without facing the question. They don't just try and get cute and say, "Best of my knowledge I was following what I truely believe to be Gods plan". Did that go over your head?

Perhaps you'd be happier if he just said "I don't recall saying that", or maybe fire one of his advisors and scape goat him for it?

Doesn't really matter and it's not going to fool anyone including yourself.

You me and everyone else knows that the extra troops were called for years before the surge while the Bush Admin tried it's failed policy of hiring 1 year graduates to be the Iraqi minister of the Interior simply because they were 'yes men', etc, and Abu Garib. It was going to hell in a hand basket until they finally listened to someone besides themselves - until they finally listened to what the generals told them from day one: we need more troops. Like 100000 more. And it's still not out of hot water yet.

You know it. i know it. You know the Bush admin was incompetent (yes. you do.) so why are you so hell bent on 4 more years of it of the same crap? You really hate the Democrats that much or is it that deep inside you just hate your country that much? Or are you just pissed you were taken for a ride the second time in for Bush and now saving face is all that matters?


And while we're at it, where's this kind of honesty in your, "I can't seem to recall", party? Is that honesty his 'inexperience' showing?

Ahk

Don't condesend to me just because you don't like the implications of things that preacher/Palin said. I think I understand it a lot better than you're willing to admit. Now that you feel backed into a corner you're going to go with this "God's plan" thing.


Don't play victim or stupid Patton.

All throughout history are those who said "I lead because God wills it" and you would be right there to scoff, denigrate and spit on them so don't play victim now. No one is denigrating you. They are understandable concerns. What about people who are 'not of faith'? Should they just leave the country? Get back down to earth will ya? That's what the whole seperation of church and state is for. Protects the state from the church and the church from the state.


You're doing the same thing the conspiricy theorists do. You are claiming something and then claiming that since 85% of the people 'believe in God' that they believe as you do. They don't. 85% of the US does not believe it's God's plan for America to be in Iraq so lets stick with the issue.

That and faith are not at issue here as much as you would like to make it so. What is at issue here is do you want to run your country as with a seperation of church and state or do you want to run the country as a Christian version of Iran?


This is a load of BS and you know it too. If you don't want to be 'denigrated' then stop actiing stupid. Revelations, huh? So how many times in the past 2000 years did it appear as though the world was going to come to an end and didn't? Never mind that, you have 'faith' don't you? Is that the same kind of faith that tells the world Iran has no homosexuals?

There's a point where 'faith' crosses the line and becomes lying to yourself and expecting everyone else to go along with it. Just because I don't fall for it does not actually mean I cannot comprehend 'faith' as much as you wish. but go ahead and keep telling yourself that -- I mean keep having 'faith' in that.

Bottom line Patton: do you want your country run by a series of religious leaders -- with no voting because after all voting for the wrong party will end you up in Hell so no one votes any longer.


"Revelations". lol. I don't know what's eating you these days but you're nuts if you thought that was going to fly. You guys said it was revelations back in the '50s too. And 100 years before that. And a hundred years before that.
Ahk

Yeah yeah yeah. "Messiah". Keep plugging that old one. Are you one of those people Patton that says, "To hell with the issues, I'm just going to keep pushing this "Messiah" line until people fall for it"? It's the Republicans that laid the snide "Messiah" crap...mostly because they can't seem to bring him down unless the hoist him way up first.

I would give Palin or Bush a pass on this issue too if they had the guts to stand up and either confirm or deny their own little notions of "Messiah-dom".



Ahk

LOL! No there isn't. It is still being led by a democracy and by people or being led by someone 'appointed' by God. Either way its one step closer to Iran.



Ahk

I never said he had spine. I said he distanced himself.

Who knows - maybe he's being a hypocrite; maybe he's lying; but in no uncertain terms he laid out what exactly he thinks about that in terms of what it is to him as a potential political policy. His comments never once gave anyone the idea he was thinking taking any of that to the Whitehouse. Why is Palin, and many many other Republicans contenders/politicians, content to let it pass when someone says "God chose them to lead us"?

Is this what you want? A leader who is "chosen by God" or if questioned is tantimount to questionming God? I don't believe Bush really believes that but I believe he let stuff like that pass so it wouldn't alienate that voter base. Did he make suckers of them? Because I don't see what he did once he got into the Whitehouse to curb abortion or bring the story of creationism into high Schools etc etc. That's what they wanted and he was all too willing to be their man.


not exactly. The Reps dug and dug and dug then found that and made an issue of it just as the Dems are making an issue out of this. He made his intentions clear while the Republicans are happy to whistle along hoping no one notices they aren't going to deny the REAL claims of Messiah-hood.
Ahk

Yes absolutely. Amen

However why isn't this brought up unless it's about a democrat? This was a big Rep talking point a few weeks back, their silence on Palin now only reinforces the lefty talking point that anyone Republican and religious is a nutter, or someone who secretly believes that stuff to be true but doesn't want to admit it. Obama distanced himself. Palin says nothing about it which seems to endorse it. Is it just that they don't want to alienate that voting base? Obama didn't seem to mind if he lost his pastors vote.




Ahk

Just like Muslim moderates have to speak up against Muslim extremism, if there are things said, alarm bells if you will, by people you are going to give power to then it is incumbent on the more reasoned 'people of faith' to have the guts and the faith to stand up and say, without a doubt, that, "No. If you are a democrat that does NOT mean you won't get into Heaven.".


Seriously those kind of statements are one step away from the "God Hates America" cult. Quit telling people what "God wants". it's the biggest sin of vanity there is. You don't know what God wants.


Reasonable people of faith need to shit or get off the crapper. With all the BS talk (and you know it's BS) about "God's Mission for America in Iraq" and other stuff that comes dangerously close to "God chose me to lead", they have to decide once and for all whether or not they want America to be America or if they want America to be Iran, because that's where the religious far right is headed.


Ahk

As a person of faith Patton, do you believe people who vote democrat don't get into heaven?

If not then what's the problem?


Ahk

Have you looked at Bush's resume recently? There's nothing there. Oh yeah. He made a lot of money on lucky investments and proclaimed a 'Jesus Day' in texas.



...Or Reagan's?
Ahk

Oh yeah. Are you telling us there aren't any Republicans who had abortions? How would we know? Maybe she's had 6 already and just lied about it. That would seem typical sex-in-a-mens-room lying to me.

Maybe she's just glad to be living in a country that gives her the choice and doesn't force her to have the child and chastise her at the same time for having it out of wedlock by narrowing her choices even more.

You don't want a police state unless it's for woman or people 'not like you' (gays, single parents who 'bring down the state', etc). Then all of a sudden it's legislation time. Feel free to make ushy-gushy baby killing noises though. Very compelling. "You kill babies".



Big talk from a someone who'd probably have an abortion if he was pregnant in a minute flat, regardless of what he thought.
Ahk