The difference is clear though. Tibet never was a country. It was always part of China and was so even before it finally got a name in the 700's CE.

Scotland was a country.

Part of a country does not have the right to separate, but a country being controlled by a third party country, does.

Not that I'm advocating a separation by Hawaii or anything, but they should also have the right.

How about another from a non-China source?

From: www.salon.com/news/1998/07/13news.html

Article by Christopher Hitchens, a columnist for Vanity Fair

"The Dalai Lama has come out in support of the thermonuclear tests recently conducted by the Indian state, and has done so in the very language of the chauvinist parties who now control that state's affairs. The "developed" countries, he says, must realize that India is a major contender and should not concern themselves with its internal affairs. This is a perfectly realpolitik statement, so crass and banal and opportunist that it would not deserve any comment if it came from another source.

But here are some other facts about the serene leader that, dwarfed as they are by his endorsement of nuclear weapons, are still worth knowing and still generally unknown.

    * Shoko Asahara, leader of the Supreme Truth cult in Japan and spreader of sarin nerve gas on the Tokyo subway, donated 45 million rupees, or about 170 million yen (about $1.2 million), to the Dalai Lama and was rewarded for his efforts by several high-level meetings with the divine one.

    * Steven Seagal, the robotic and moronic "actor" who gave us "Hard to Kill" and "Under Siege," has been proclaimed a reincarnated lama and a sacred vessel or "tulku" of Tibetan Buddhism. This decision, ratified by Penor Rinpoche, supreme head of the Nyingma School of Tibetan Buddhism, was initially received with incredulity by (insert the name of another braindead, washed-up hollywood goof), who had hitherto believed himself to be the superstar most favored. "If someone's a tulku, that's great," he was quoted as saying. "But no one knows if that's true." How insightful, if only accidentally. At a subsequent Los Angeles appearance by the Dalai Lama, Seagal was seated in the front row and (other washed up loser) two rows back, thus giving the latter's humility and submissiveness a day at the races. Suggestions that Seagal's fortune helped elevate him to the Himalayan status of tulku are not completely discounted even by some adepts and initiates.

    * Supporters of the Dorge Shugden deity -- a "Dharma protector" and an ancient object of worship and propitiation in Tibet -- have been threatened with violence and ostracism and even death following the Dalai Lama's abrupt prohibition of this once-venerated godhead. A Swiss television documentary graphically intercuts footage of "His Holiness", denying all knowledge of menace and intimidation, with scenes of his followers' enthusiastically promulgating "Wanted" posters and other paraphernalia of excommunication and persecution.

    * While he denies being a Buddhist "Pope," the Dalai Lama is never happier than when brooding in a celibate manner on the sex lives of people he has never met. "Sexual misconduct for men and women consists of oral and anal sex," he has repeatedly said in promoting his book on these matters. "Using one's hand, that is sexual misconduct." But, as ever with religious stipulations, there is a nutty escape clause. "To have sexual relations with a prostitute paid by you and not by a third person does not constitute improper behavior."

This from the site of the 8-time America quadrennial political circus aspirant, Lyndon LaRouche. Of course, he is not liked by the rulers of America, but hey, just another for those whining that it is only "Chinese people" against what is going on.

From: http://larouchepac.com/news/2008/04/10/british-use-tibet-networks-war-china-again.html

British Use Tibet Networks for War On China - Again

by Mike Billington
 
April 10, 2008 (LPAC)--Once again, the British have played their Tibet Card, unleashing a carefully orchestrated, racist riot in Lhasa, and cranking out lies and anti-China hysteria through their global media empire. This is not the first time Tibet has figured in a British war plan against China. In 1932, as the world was descending into Hell after the collapse of the world financial system--just as it is today--the British provoked chaos across Eurasia. Hitler's rise to power was financed by the Bank of England's Montagu Norman and his friends in the Bush and Harriman families in the United States, with the intention of instigating a war between the Nazis and the Soviet Union, expecting them to bleed each other to death. Meanwhile, Japan was instigated by London and its J.P. Morgan interests in New York to move into Manchuria, with the aim of seizing the wealth of China for the Anglo-Japanese alliance, while threatening the Soviets from the East, and ending the hated Republic of China, founded under the leadership of the great champion of the American System, Sun Yat Sen.

To aid in that Japanese invasion of China--which officially launched World War II--the British activated their Tibetan assets as a second front, sending Tibetan troops against the forces of the Chinese Republic in southwest China, aimed at grabbing new pieces of China for an expanded "Greater Tibet." As the British-edited China Year Book stated in that year, the British-armed Tibetan operation was well on its way to being "restored to its ancient boundry."

Then, as today, the British also activated their assets in Western China among the Islamic Uighur population, to cut even more chunks out of the Republic of China, for an entity they called Eastern Turkestan (see accompanying article).
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The British have never hidden their alliance and ideological agreement with the Nazis in their Tibet operations--neither before World War II, nor afterwards. In the 1930s, Tibet was under the direction of a senior officer of the Raj in India, Hugh Richardson, who had come to Tibet in 1932 to attempt to coerce the Chinese to give up their historic claim to Tibet as an integral part of China, and to give up more areas of China to Greater Tibet. He stayed in Lhasa, performing essentially the same function as the British Resident in an Indian state, providing weapons and direction to the local authorities, under the direction of the 13th Dalai Lama, who preceded the current Dalai Lama.

A Nazi Waffen SS delegation was deployed to Tibet by Heinrich Himmler in 1939, headed by Ernst Schaefer, intending to establish relations with the land reputed in Nazi lore to be the true source of the pure Aryan race. One member of the expedition, Bruno Beger, was an ethnologist, who was measuring skulls and body parts, attempting to prove the biological ties between the Tibetans and the Nazis. He befriended the Regent for the young 14th Dalai Lama, and later became a lifelong friend of the Dalai Lama himself. He also became a convicted war criminal, for his later work on Jews in the Nazi concentration camps, trying to find a biological means for determining Jewish origin.
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British consul Hugh Richardson had to be a bit careful with these kindred spirits; Britain was, after all, on the brink of war with Germany after Der Fuerher turned against his British sponsors, and especially after the Hitler-Stalin Pact in September 1939. Richardson kept his distance at the time, but after that nasty little war with the Nazis was over, Richardson and Beger became the best of friends again.

So also did Richardson befriend SS officer Heinrich Harrer, made famous by the Hollywood glorification of his book Seven Years in Tibet in 1997. Harrer arrived in Tibet in 1944, living intimately with Richardson and the Dalai Lama, only leaving, with Richardson, when the Chinese returned to Tibet after the 1949 Chinese revolution. Both Harrer and Beger were members in good standing in the Tibet Society, founded by Richardson in 1959 to lead the campaign against China's sovereignty over Tibet. In 1994, the three of them held a grand reunion with the Dalai Lama, pledging their continued support for the independence of Tibet. A video of the Dalai Lama meeting his old friend Harrer in recent years, chatting about the good old days, is readily available on YouTube.

Thus it should be no surprise to read reports and see films showing that the Tibetan gangs who have just rampaged through Lhasa took a page from the Nazi pogroms, marking those shops and homes owned by ethnic Tibetans with white flags, and trashing and burning all others, regardless of the innocent people trapped inside. The films were provided by the Chinese, but were also confirmed by James Miles, the journalist for the London Economist, who was in Lhasa during the week of the riots.
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As Miles wrote: "What I saw was calculated targeted violence against an ethnic group, or, I should say, two ethnic groups, primarily ethnic Han Chinese living in Lhasa, but also members of the Muslim Hui minority in Lhasa." The rioters, Miles said, "marked those businesses that they knew to be Tibetan-owned with white traditional scarves. Those businesses were left intact. Almost every single other across a wide swathe of the city ... was either burned, looted, destroyed, smashed into, the property therein hauled out into the streets, piled up, burned. It was an extraordinary outpouring of ethnic violence of a most unpleasant nature to watch, which surprised some Tibetans watching it."

Miles also reported that the police did virtually nothing for several days, waited for the riot to run itself out, and only then moved in to secure the streets, "when they felt safe I think that there would not be massive bloodshed."

Despite this coverage, the world press constantly repeats the mantra that the Chinese kept the press out of Tibet during the riots, and that the Chinese must be held responsible for the violence. Those, like U.S. Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, who travelled to visit the Dalai Lama after the riots, and lied that the slaughter of Han Chinese and Hui Chinese Muslims in Lhasa was the result of "Chinese oppression," must be asked: Why are you serving the racist British Empire?
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Tibetan 'Traditional Culture'

What is the Tibetan "traditional culture" which the Chinese are accused of destroying, and which the British (and the Nazis) admire so dearly? Before 1950,...about one-fourth of the population, entered the monkhood. The majority of those who were not monks were herdsmen or peasants, working as serfs on land owned by the government or by one of the thousands of monasteries. There was nearly total illiteracy among the peasantry, and even in the monkhood. Wooden plows and yaks were the only technology used by the peasants, who otherwise relied on brute-force labor; until the 20th Century, there were no wheeled vehicles in the country. Justice was at the whim of the nobility and the Dalai Lama, as there was no organized system of courts. Polyandry, where a wife was shared among all the brothers of a family, was common.

The British encouraged the Tibetans to prevent economic development, and that not even a single road should be built into Tibet. They wanted Tibet to be a buffer between the Raj in India and China, but, even more, to retain its "traditional culture," as a Shangri-la, the Valhalla of the Nazis. When the Chinese came in, with development, schools, hospitals, and roads, Richardson cried that, "a heavy curtain has descended upon Tibet, a state of cultural degeneration to which this whole people has now been reduced." China has also rebuilt the major monasteries and, since the Cultural Revolution of the 1960s, does not restrict traditional religious practices.

When challenged on the fact that China has helped Tibetans emerge from the dark ages, Richardson expressed the classic, racist colonial view: "Apologists may point to claims of material and mechanical progress, but even if these benefits ever reach the Tibetan population, the fact remains they were not sought by the Tibetan people themselves, and represent the total negation of Tibetan civilization and culture."
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British Outsourcing to the U.S.

When the Chinese returned to Tibet in 1950, Richardson left for London, where he continued sponsoring Tibetan military insurrections (with help from the CIA), while training up-and-coming British colonial agents at Cambridge (among them, Michael Aris, who married Burma's Aung San Suu Kyi, now the British-controlled asset in Myanmar/Burma). The Dalai Lama fled to India during a failed revolt in 1959, but the British and the CIA continued providing military training for Tibetans in exile through the 1960s and beyond.

When the U.S. establishment of relations with China in 1974, and formal recognition in 1979, ended the covert military operations, the "Tibet Card" was transformed into a "human rights" campaign. President Carter issued the Dalai Lama his first visa to the United States in 1979, and a nest of members of Congress began fawning over "His Holiness the Dalai Lama." During the 1980s, a number of covert operations were "privatized" to the semi-government National Endowment for Democracy (NED), carrying out "regime change" through political subversion rather than military invasion.
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In 1988, Tibet House was set up in New York by Hollywood's (insert here the name of a braindead washed up actor) and Robert Thurman, the Columbia University professor who is considered the reigning "expert" on Tibet since the death of Hugh Richardson. The next year, the same crew set up the International Campaign for Tibet (ICT), which has become the command center for anti-China operations using the Tibet Card. To understand the nature of this British creation, consider Thurman's pedigree:

Thurman was a 68er who dropped out of Harvard to marry oil heiress Christoph de Menil. When the marriage fell apart, he wandered around India on a motorcycle, ending up spending several years with the Dalai Lama, and becoming the first Westerner to be ordained as a Tantric Buddhist monk. When he returned to the United State a few years later, to become a spokesman for the Dalai Lama, he met the wife of acid-freak Timothy Leary, renounced his robes, and married her as soon as her divorce came through. He went on to become a professor at Columbia University, and the leading liar before the Congress and similar dens of corruption around the world, on behalf of the Dalai Lama and against China. His daughter Uma (imagine her childhood!) is a sex-goddess movie star, now making slasher films.

The ICT receives about $5 million in donations annually, and works in close coordination with the World Wide Fund for Nature, the green fascist movement created by the British and Dutch royal families, which deploys millions of dollars internationally on behalf of the effort to revive the Empire. Also in league with the ICT is Amnesty International, the British intelligence network deployed against nations targetted by the Anglo-Dutch financial oligarchy.

Although some operational control has been outsourced to the Americans, London is still running the show. Exemplary of this was the 1995 proposal published in the New York Council on Foreign Relations journal, Foreign Affairs, called "China's Changing Shape," by Gerald Segal, the Director of Studies at London's International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS), a leading British Imperial think tank. The map which he presents reduces China to about one-half its current size, with the rest divided up between the independent states of Greater Tibet, East Turkestan, Mongolia, and Manchuria. Not surpisingly, the home page of the ICT website prominently features precisely such a map, and the Dalai Lama clique insists that Tibet be considered as this larger piece of China in their negotiations with Beijing.
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The Current Turmoil

The racist explosion in Lhasa on March 14 was not spontaneous. In the early 1990s, ICT board member Mark Handelman arranged for 1,000 children of the Tibetans in the Dalai Lama circles in India to receive special compensation for visas to the United States. Among them was Tsewang Rigzin, who lived in the U.S. for over 12 years, became a citizen, and worked in the local offices of the Tibetan Youth Congress, set up by the Dalai Lama's supporters in Dharamsala, India, in the 1970s. Rigzin was in close communication with the ICT in the United States.

In August of 2007, Rigzin returned to Dharamsala, and was elected to head the Youth Congress. He immediately began campaigning for a march from Dharamsala to Tibet on the March 10 anniversary of the Dalai Lama's flight from Tibet. Such overt political activity is explicitly forbidden by the conditions agreed upon between the Indian government and the Dalai Lama, for his residence in India. Rigzin then set up the Tibetan People's Uprising Organization with four other exile groups, which openly opposed the pledge of non-violence professed by the Dalai Lama, and called for an international boycott of the Beijing Olympics--something which the Dalai Lama has refused to do. Thus, a classic British intelligence "hard cop-soft cop" dichotomy was set up, and was played by the world press whores who serve the British imperial plans.

The Chinese have provided proof that the Youth Congress, while professing a distance from the Dalai Lama himself, extensively organized for demonstrations and rioting in cities in Tibet, China, and around the world, for March 10 and the following days. Their "march on Tibet" from Dharamsala was quickly stopped by the Indian authorities, but when the race riots broke out on March 14, the violence spread across China and the region, coordinated by the Youth Congress networks. Although there appear to have been no rioters killed in Lhasa, there may have been several dozen killed in other Chinese cities.
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The British War Plan

The target of convenience for the British war plan against China is the Summer Olympics in Beijing. The carrying of the Olympic Torch around the world provides a series of high-profile events for the ICT to mobilize demonstrations and disruptions. But the Olympics are incidental--the British war plan is driven by the pace of economic disintegration descending on the world economy in the wake of the collapse of the world financial system in the Summer of 2007. The primary targets are the major powers of Eurasia--China, Russia, and India--not because of their power in itself, but because the primary danger in the eyes of the Anglo-Dutch financial interests is an FDR-style alliance of the U.S.A., Russia, China, and India, against the emerging fascist order. This is the driving force behind the British campaign to drag the U.S. into an Atlantic alliance against Asia, a danger that must be exposed and destroyed.

While I'm at it, might as well post this, as well. This was written in response to the babbling on the Crappy pseudo-News Network and the lies they were spreading with so much glee.

There was "foreign press" there as has been posted. Of course, the anti-China racist mouth-breathing bottom-dwelling knuckle-dragging troglodytes stay clear from the real truth. Preferring to substitute the lies from the weapons of mass deception but the terrorist and traitor Tenzin Gyatso and the terrorist organization he fronts and the British and American groups that fund his terrorist organizatoin, FOR the truth and reality:

confirmed by James Miles, the journalist for the London Economist, who was in Lhasa during the week of the riots.
----
As Miles wrote: "What I saw was calculated targeted violence against an ethnic group, or, I should say, two ethnic groups, primarily ethnic Han Chinese living in Lhasa, but also members of the Muslim Hui minority in Lhasa." The rioters, Miles said, "marked those businesses that they knew to be Tibetan-owned with white traditional scarves. Those businesses were left intact. Almost every single other across a wide swathe of the city ... was either burned, looted, destroyed, smashed into, the property therein hauled out into the streets, piled up, burned. It was an extraordinary outpouring of ethnic violence of a most unpleasant nature to watch, which surprised some Tibetans watching it."

Miles also reported that the police did virtually nothing for several days, waited for the riot to run itself out, and only then moved in to secure the streets, "when they felt safe I think that there would not be massive bloodshed."

Despite this coverage, the world press constantly repeats the mantra that the Chinese kept the press out of Tibet during the riots, and that the Chinese must be held responsible for the violence. Those, like U.S. Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, who travelled to visit the Dalai Lama after the riots, and lied that the slaughter of Han Chinese and Hui Chinese Muslims in Lhasa was the result of "Chinese oppression," must be asked: Why are you serving the racist British Empire?

There is lots of truth available, but unfortunately, the so-called "mainstream media" in the west that are simply mouthpieces for whichever frontmen are shilling for the local rulers, doesn't like to rock the anti-China boat and provide it on the evening news.

Fortunately, there are many who have written the truth...and the truth shall set you free. Just as free as TB is now and has been since the terrorist and traitor Tenzin Gyatso took American blood money and scurried away to be the poster boy for America's and Britain's attacks on China.

Part 2:

Lamaism, which would be derived from Mahayana Buddhism, and modified by erotic mysticism of Tantrism and indigenous Tibetan rites, would not formally establish itself until much later. The first Lama monastery in Xizang would be established near Lhasa only after 750 AD by Indian scholar-monk Padmasambhava, a full century after Princess Wencheng's marriage.

Princess Wencheng was a remarkable woman and a devout Buddhist. As a political bride of sixteen, she brought to TB many books on Tang culture, as well as an entourage of scholars and artisans. Under her influence, her Barbarian husband ordered his subjects to adopt Tang rituals, customs and learning. Sons from Tufan noble households were sent to Changan as students, and many live in Tang imperial palaces as guests of Emperor Taizong.

Zanpu Qizonglong Zan built an elaborate palace for Princess Wencheng in Lhasa. After her husband's death, Princess Wencheng would continue to enjoy the affection and adoration of her adopted people until her death thirty years later at age fifty-five.

By 680, the disappointment felt by Tufans from the refusal of the then Emperor Gaozong, son of their great friend, the late Emperor Taizong of the Tang dynasty, to grant his daughter, 17-year-old "Peace Princess" (Taiping Gongzu), in marriage to the 9-year-old TB king: Qinuxilong, on the grounds that the Peace Princess, since 8 years old, was a nuguan (Daoist), has developed into nationalistic dimensions with historic implications.

Lamaism, culturally-defensive, in time would evolve xenophobic and anti-Daoist sentiments, as well as attitudes of anti-Han, the indigenous majority nationality in China. Lamaism would develop as a modification of Mahayana Buddhism through Tantric rituals of erotic mysticism and by ancient shamanism and sorcery of the Bon, a primitive, indigenous animistic religion of TB which believes in the existence of spirits separate from the body.

Tantrism, an arcane cult within Hinduism, centering around erotic, magical and mystical rites, has been influential in the development of orthodox Hinduism, of Mahayana Buddhism and later of Lamaism. The Tantric cult has elaborate devotional ceremonies, and it is held that only through ritualistic sexual union would the gods respond to the initiated. Female divinities are worshiped, and women are accorded high places in tantrist cults.

Lamaism would enjoy imperial sponsorship in China under Kublai khan's Mongolian Yuan dynasty in 13th century, partly because of its anti-Daoist and anti-Han ethnic colorations. Buddhist reformer Tsong-kha-pa, who would die in 1419, would establish the Yellow Hat order which would gradually gain ascendancy over the original Red Hat order of Lamaism.

A decrepit Ming court, ruled by a dynastic house of the majority Han ethnicity, in 1641, nearing the end of its 320-year reign, 3 years before its final overthrow by the conquering Manchurians who would establish the Qing dynasty (1661-1911), in a feeble attempt to preserve its titular sovereignty, would grant de facto temporal power over TB to the 5th Grand Lama of the Yellow Hat order, whose title would be the D L and would install him in Potala in Lhasa.

The D L was then disgustingly said to be a divine reincarnation of the Boddhisattva Avallokiteshvara, mythical ancestor of the people of Xizang.

A boddhisattva is worshiped as a deity in Mahayana Buddhism. It is the name given to an enlightened being who compassionately refrains from entering nirvana in order to save others. The most well-known boddhisattva in Mahayana Buddhism is the female Guanyin, Goddess of Mercy.

In 1652, the D L was be invited to Beijing, where he was received with great pomp by Emperor Shizu during the reign of Shunzhi (1644-1661) of the Manchurian Qing dynasty (1661-1911). Lamaism again enjoyed imperial patronage under Emperor Shizong during the reign of Yongzheng (1723-1735) of Qing dynasty and would remain active and influential in the Qing court until 1911, the founding of the Republic of China. Nine years after his accession, Emperor Shizong converted his palace in Beijing, Yonghe Gong, into a Lama temple.

Yonghe Gong would be in modern time one of the main tourist attractions and a focus of pilgrimage for Lamaism in Beijing. By the personal intervention of Premier Zhou Enlai, it would receive protection from ideologically-inspired vandalism by radical Red Guards during the turbulent Cultural Revolution (1966-1976).

While the Dalai Lama would become traditional leader of TB, spiritual supremacy would reside with the chief abbot of the influential Dashi Lumpo monastery near Zhikatse, 200 kilometers southwest of Lhasa, who would be known as the Dashi or Panchen Lama, a reincarnation of Amitabha, the Buddha of Light.

The succession to Grand Lama, either Dalai or Panchen, depends upon direct reincarnation. Upon the death of either, his spirit is said to pass into the body of some infant born shortly after, the identity of whom is determined by a series of exacting tests and divinations. Upon identification, the selected child is then brought to Lhasa and meticulously trained to assume his awesome spiritual role.

The 13th Dalai Lama would flee to Peking from a British expedition force in August, 1904. On April 27, 1906, China, represented by the dying Qing court, as suzerain of TB, would agree to the terms imposed by Britain not to permit third countries to send representatives, receive transportation or mining concessions, or occupy, purchase or lease territories in TB without British permission.

It would be a policy designed by Lord Curzon, 1st Marquess of Kedleston, the expansionist viceroy of British India, after having retired a year before from a policy dispute with Lord Kitchener, commander of the British army in India who would be supported by the home government. The policy would aim generally to protect British interests in TB and specifically to contain Czarist Russian expansion into the region.

All "unequal" treaties signed by the government of the Qing dynasty during the age of Western imperialism, including those concerning TB, would since be declared null and void by all subsequent governments of China, nationalist and communist alike. Four years after the British-Qing dynasty agreement, on February 25, 1910, during the chaos of the nationalist revolutionary uprisings that finally established the nationalist Republic of China, the 13th D L would again flee, this time to British India.

The 14th Dalai Lama, a 5-year-old boy, would be installed on February 22, 1940 and the 9th Panchen Lama, a 7-year-old, in 1944. The 14th Dalai Lama signed a 17-point agreement with the government of the newly established People's Republic in Beijing on May 24, 1951 that would reconfirm Chinese sovereignty over Tibet with local autonomy.

The 9th Panchen Lama, after taking office under the new People's Republic on May 1, 1952 at age 15, would die in Beijing on January 28, 1989. On December 8, 1995, a six-year-old boy was annointed as Tibetan Buddhism's new Panchen Lama.

I'd be happy to. Not certain if there is a limit on bytes used in one post, but here's one I wrote elsewhere. A timeline that is all easily confirmed simply by doing what I did...read and investigate from many sources to try and find the truth rather than just blindly accepting the propaganda spewed by the traitor and terrorist Tenzin Gyatso and his supporters and financiers. Ooops! Just got the "exceeds maximum" message so I'll cut it down and post it in parts. Here's the first:

Tibet has been an inseparable part of China from time immemorial. Prior to the common era, the ancestors of the Tibetan people had contacts with the Han people living in the central plains of China. During the long years leading up to the seventh century the many tribes scattered on the Tibet Plateau gradually came together to form the Tibetan ethnic group The Tubo Dynasty.

Early in the seventh century China moved into a new stage of its history. The Tang Dynasty (618-907) was a powerful and politically united dynasty that initially established order over the shifting and chaotic situation that had prevailed for more than 300 years in China.

At the same time, the great Tibetan leader Songtsen Gampo brought together more than ten separate tribes, an event commonly seen as marking the establishment of the Tibetan kingdom, making his capital in present-day Lhasa.

Songtsen Gampo had good relations with the Tang court and Tibet benefited from the impartation of Tang technologies (advanced for the day), and was influenced by Tang culture and politics. He twice sent ministers to the Tang Dynasty court requesting a member of the imperial family be given him in marriage and in 641 was given Princess Wencheng, a member of Emperor Taizong's family.

Introduced into Tibet during this time were Chinese technologies for wine-making, grinding and paper and ink making. Sons of the Tibetan aristocracy were sent to the Tang capital Changan to study Literati from the Tang court went to the Tibetan capital to handle communications with the emperor During the reign of Songtsen Gampo political, economic and cultural relations between the two nations were friendly.

Laudatory titles given King Songtsen Gampo by Emperor Gaozong include "Commandant-escort," "Commandery Prince of the Western Sea" and Companion Prince." This pattern of friendly relations established during the reign of Songtsen Gampo was carried on during the the next two hundred years In 710 the Tang Princess Jincheng was sent to Tibet to marry the Tibetan King Tride Tsugtsen, accompanied by several tens of thousands of pieces of embroidered satin brocade, a variety of technical writings and various other useful items Princess Jincheng later gave money to support Buddhist monks from Yutian (now in modern Xinjiang) and elsewhere on their trips to Tibet to build temples and translate sutras.

She also requested that Chinese classical works such as The Book of Songs with Annotation by Mao Heng The Book of Rites, Zuo Qiuming's Chronicles and Xiao Tong's Literary Selections be gent to her from the Tang court In 821 King Ralpachen of Tibet three times sent envoys to Changan to discuss forming an alliance with the Tang Empire. Emperor Muzong ordered his prime minister to effect the alliance in a grand ceremony held in the western suburbs of the capital.

The following year high-ranking representatives of the Tang court including Liu Yuanding were dispatched to Tibet to participate in a similar ceremony marking the alliance held in the eastern suburbs of Lhasa. Representatives of the Tibetan king included his chief ministers. This all occured during the first and second years (822 and 823) of the Changqing reign of the Tang Dynasty, and accordingly has been called the Changqing Alliance" by historians The two parties agreed to "amity as though they were of one family" and to "treat their sacrificial alters as though they were one."

An account of the alliance is recorded on three stelae, the "Tang-Tubo Alliance Stelae," one of which still stands before the Jokhang Temple in Lhasa.

Beginning around 842 the Tubo Kingdom broke up. Rival groups of ministers and members of the royal family engaged in internecine struggle. Power was reduced to the local level This state of affairs continued for more than 400 years.

In 1247 the Mongol prince Godan invited the head abbot of the Sakya order Sakya Pandita Gonggar Gyaltsen to a meeting in Liangzhou (modern Wuwei in Gansu Province). He offered the submission of Tibet to the Mongol Khanate and the acceptance of a defined local administrative system and in return the Sakya were given political power in Tibet. In 1271 the Mongolian conquerors took Yuan as the name of their dynasty.

In 1279 following their defeat of the Song they completed their unification of all of China.

In 1260, when Kublai Khan (1215-1294) ascended the throne, he conferred the title Mentor of State on Gonggar Gyaltsen's nephew Phagspa, King of the Dharma of the Sakya order.

In 1264 Kublai Khan established the Supreme Control Commisssion for Buddhism with Phagspa at its head.

In 1265 Kublai Khan honoured Phagspa with the titles of Dabaofawang (Great Treasure King of the Dharma) and Dishi (Imperial Preceptor) Following Phagspa's recommendations he appointed an official for the overall management of Tibetan affairs.

In 1268, 1287 and 1334 the Yuan central government sent officials to check on the Tibetan population. Fifteen staging posts were set up linking communications between Tibet and the Yuan capital Dadu (modern Beijing). In addition, the conscript labour system was established and promoted in Tibet.

Since Tibet formalIy became part of China, China has seen changes of dynasty and many change-overs in the central authority, but Tibet has always remained under the Chinese central government's jurisdiction. During the mid-14th century the Sakya government gradually declined m authority

In 1354 Jangchub Gyaltsen of the Phagdru Kagyupa gained political control over most of Tibet. This political-religions government was recognized by the Yuan court and Jangchub Gyeltsen was given the title Grand Minister of Education.

With the overthrow of the Yuan and the founding of the Ming Dynasty in 1368, a policy whereby titles were widely conferred was put into effect. The head of any religious order who could claim local political power was given an honorary title such as "king," "dharma king" or "Abhisecana preceptor of state" ("Abhisecana" being a Bnddhist ceremony wherein a student's initiation is acknowledged by his teacher sprinkling water on his head) Succession to the throne was subject to approval by the emperor who would dispatch officials to deliver diplomas acknowledging the title.

During this time, the Gelug (Yellow) order, which recognized two great Living Buddhas, the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama, was gaining in prominence.

The Third Dalai Lama Sonam Gyatso gave presents to the Ming court and in return was given the title "Dorje Chang" (Holder of the Vajra) The Ming government followed Yuan Dynasty practices regards Tibet. It established the U-Tsang and the Gargain garrison command headquarters and the Olisi Military-Civil Governor's Office respectively to manage the military and political affairs in Anterior and Ulterior Tibet, Qamdo and Ngari. During this time, the Phagdru government established the dzongpon system in parts of Tibet.

The administrative heads of each dzong (an administrative unit about the size of a county) were recognized by the Ming court as dzongpon (county magistrate) In 1644, the Qing Dynasty overthrew the Ming.

The Qing emperor Shunzhi on several occasions invited the Fifth Dalai Lama to Beijing, and in 1652 he did so. In 1653 the emperor gave the Dalai Lama a gold-leaf diploma and gold seal formally recognizing his status as the Dalai Lama. In 1713 Emperor Kangxi similarly honoured the Fifth Panchen Lama Lozang Yeshe formally recognizing him as "Panchen Erdeni." Beginning around this time the Dalai Lama based in Lhasa ruled over the greater part of Tibet and the Panchen Lama based in Xigaze ruled over the remainder.

In 1727 the Qing court appointed a Resident Commissioner (Amban) as a central government representative in Tibet to oversee Tibet's administrative affairs. Tibet's borders with Sichuan, Yunnan and Qinghai were formally surveyed and fixed at this time. In 1721 the Qing central government established the Kaloon (Ministers of Council) system in Tibet. In 1750 the Tibetan administrative system was reformulated and the "commandery prince" system was eliminated. The Tibetan local government (Kashag) was founded.


In 1793 the Qing government issued the famous 29-Article Ordinance for the More Efficient Governing of Tibet, dealing with the authority of the Amban, the reincarnation of the Dalai Lama, the Panchen Lama and other important Living Buddhas, frontier defence, relations with the outside world, finance and tax revenues, minting and administration of currency, and the support and administration of monasteries. The basic principles formulated in the 29-Article Ordinance remained the standard for the administrative and legal systems in Tibet for more than the next hundred years.

In 1911 the Xinhai Revolution against the Qing Dynasty led to the establishment of the Republic of China, a multi-ethnic, unified state combining Han, Manchu, Mongolian, Hui, Tibetan and other peoples The central government continued jurisdiction over Tibet as it had for centuries.

In 1912 the Bureau of Mongolian and Tibetan Affairs (in 191? - I forget and I didn't write it down) renamed the Mongolian and Tibetan Affairs Office was set up chiefly to manage Tibetan affairs. The Nanjing National Government came to power in 1927 and two years later it set up the Mongolian and Tibetan Affairs Commission to oversee administration of the areas inhabited by Tibetans, Mongolians and other ethnic minorities.

In 1940 the National Government set up a resident office of the Mongolian and Tibetan Affairs Commission in Lhasa to function as the central government's standing body in Tibet. The Tibetan government frequently sent officials to participate in the Republic's National Congress. The Republic suffered from incessant foreign aggression and frequent internal disturbances. But despite the fragility of the central government the Dalai and Panchen lamas continued to accept its official recognition of their positions, receiving legal status in their political and religious roles in Tibet.

The (Fourteenth) D L, the terrorist Tenzin Gyatso, was sanctioned in a proclamation issued by the president of the National Government.

In 1949 the People's Republic of China was founded. Proceeding in cognizance of Tibet's history and present reality, the Central People's Government determined a policy of peaceful liberation.

On May 23, 1951, representatives from the Central People's Government and the local government of Tibet agreed on a series of issues regarding Tibet's peaceful liberation, signing the Agreement of the Central People's Government and the Local Government of Tibet on Measures for the Peaceful Liberation of Tibet (known as the 17-Article Agreement) The 17-Article Agreement contains several main points.

First, the central government demanded that the Tibetan local government actively strengthen national defence and resolutely drive imperialist forces out of Tibet.

Second, the Central People's Government would not alter Tibet's current system or the Dalai Lama's inherent status and authority The Tibetan people's customs would be respected and their religious freedom protected.

Third, a total end to slavery.

Fourth, the right to education for the people.

The reform of Tibetan society would be decided after consultation with Tibetan leaders. Regional autonomy for minority people would be instituted in Tibet autonomus region. The Dalai Lama and Panchen Erdeni separately telegraphed their acceptance of the 17-Article Agreement to Mao Zedong, Chairman of the Central People's Government, resolutely upholding the unity of the motherland's sovereignty.

Other Tibetans, monastic and secular, and local Tibetan leaders expressed their firm support as well. This date marks a new page in Tibetan history. In 1954 the Tenzin Gyatso and the Panchen came to Beijing to participate in the first session of the First National People's Congress of the People's Republic of China. During this conference, the Dalai Lama was elected as Vice Chairman of the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress, and Panchen Erdeni, member of the NPC Standing Committee.

In 1956, the Preparatory Committee for the Tibet Autonomous Region was founded with the Dalai Lama as its chairman.

In March 1959, the majority of the kaloons in the Tibetan local government joined with the reactionary clique of the upper social strata launched a comprehensive armed rebellion with the aim of splitting the country, preserving the slavery and opposing democratic reform. The Central People's Government ordered the PLA in Tibet rerolutely to quell the rebellion.

On March 28 of the same year, Zhou Enlai, Premier of the State Council of the Central People's Government, released an order dissolving the Tibetan local government, and declaring that the functions and authority of the Tibetan local government would be vested in the Preparatory Committee for the Tibet Autonomous Region.

At this same time, the Central People's Government, responding to the will of the Tibetan people, implemented democratic reform and abolished the slavery in Tibet. As a result, the million serfs and slaves in Tibet stood up and came into their own, instead of being treated as the private property of serf-owners that could be traded, transferred or used to pay off a debt in kind or by labour. After a few years of steady development, the Tibet Autonomous Region was formally founded in September 1965.

Actually, much of the rest come from several sources in Russia. Just to show that this information is available to anyone in the world who really wishes to know the truth, and it again starts from the distant past.

TB has been an integral of China since the 13th century.

The Tufans are one branch of the Xi Qiang (West Qiang) tribes who have founded a kingdom in Xizang (Tibet) the recorded history of which began only around Tang time in early seventh century. Up until this time, they consisted of some one hundred and fifty separate tribes who constantly quarrelled among themselves and sought mediation periodically from succeeding courts of the Middle Kingdom (China) since the Han dynasty (B.C. 206-220 A.D.)

Tufan zanpu (king in the local TB language) Qizonglong Zan sent to the Tang court in 641, an emissary named Ludong Zan to ask for the hand of a Tang princess in marriage, a ritual gesture of a tributary vassal state. Two years earlier still, in 639, thirteenth year of the reign of Emperor Taizong, Tufan zanpu Qizonglong Zan had already sent over twenty thousand ounces of gold to the Emperor as a sign of the king's honorable intentions. Ludong Zan arrived again in 641 with an additional marriage gift of five thousand more taels of gold.

Princess Wencheng, daughter of the Emperor, from among the daughters of one of his twenty-one brothers, was given in marriage in the same year to seventy-three-year-old Tufan zanpu Qizonglong Zan, after her aging suitor paid an additional final marriage gift of five times the weight of his young bride in gold. Princess Wencheng was at the time sixteen years old.

The ceremony in which the hand of Princess Wencheng was formally requested in marriage was memorialized by famous Tang painter, Yan Liben, (c. 600-673), in a painting entitled: Sedan Chair Portrait, now at the Beijing Palace Art Museum.

Princess Wencheng would be credited by historians as being instrumental in introducing Tang culture into TB, as well as Mahayana Buddhism, the growth of which she would help to foster throughout her life in the exotic land. Indigenous mystic and animistic concepts then modified Mahayana Buddhism soon after its introduction.

What's "controversial" is the lie you used stating that 90% of the people of China make between 500 to 800 RMB per month.

Here's an old report for you from 2004 - and things have increased of course, since then - and this is not a China govt. source:

A recent study shows that the average monthly income of 70% of business workers in Mainland China is between 800 yuan (US $97) to 2,500 yuan (US $302), with the senior management staff earning three to 15 times the salary of the average enterprise worker. The report also shows that more than 70 percent of the Chinese enterprise workers are satisfied with their salaries, and the most unsatisfied are the employees of state-run enterprises.

Hong Kong-based Singtao Daily reported that the Chinese State Council Research and Development Center's Enterprise Research Institute has completed a one-year study on the Chinese enterprises human resources management. The study included more than 2,000 enterprises, and is the most comprehensive report on Chinese enterprise human resources management to date.

Full article available at: www.asianresearch.org/articles/2089.html

I work in a Chinese company. The starting salary for office staff is RMB2500 a month (in Shenzhen). When I first arrived in China in 1988 the average salary for office staff in Shenzhen was RMB400 a month with room and board provided as well as extra bits provided throughout the year.

The average salary in major cities for the average worker in an office staff situation is over RMB2,000 per month - but for the most part, without the room and board thrown in. Of course, they all get paid for 13 months per year and not just 12.

You take the salaries paid to the lowest paid factory workers, amend those figures to suit your own purposes, and then try to post them as actual. There are words for doing so, but I'll just use disingenuous.

Wrong again renegadedog, but I know you are used to that.

The Olympic Torch was not snatched away from the one-legged wheelchair bound girl being pushed by a blind man, she held on to the torch protecting it from the scum terrorist supporter that tried to take it from her. Yes, the crippled girl in the wheelchair being pushed by a blind man was able to hold off the scum terrorist supporter while the French police watched. She was tough, the terrorist supporter was a wimp.

And I doubt anyone - unless some of the other foreign morons from the CD migrate over here - that knows the truth about the situation will agree that what you quoted was a "good post" - more like "same shyte, different pile."

As is your last sentence of course...pure lying shyte taken almost verbatim from typical anti-China racist propaganda.

I think I can sort of answer both in one reply if I may?

Scotland was a country and is a country and yet is being ruled by another country. To me that is anathema. Scotland, Wales and Ireland - ALL of Ireland - have the right to be independent of the rule of another country because they were countries before they fell under the control of a third country.

The Basque "Region" - I note they have started to call it a country now even though it isn't - never was another country. It is part of a country and separating out is also anathema to me. The Basque terrorists - or separatists as they fashion themselves, ignoring the bombings they undertake to terrorize, are only miffed because they are not in total control. Tough!

I feel the same way about Quebec. Quebec is part of Canada and the Quebec terrorists - or now, separatists (not much in the way of bombing so I can cut them some slack in the "name" department) - have no right to separate from Canada simply because the land isn't theirs...it belongs to the people of Canada. But that was the fault of the British who, after defeating the French, instead of doing what other countries of the time might have done and eliminating them altogether, allowed the French to stay to help build Canada...and they did.

Actually, during the 80's I accepted the separation of the French if they wanted, but there had to be restrictions. For example, since the St. Lawrence Seaway is an integral and very important part of Canada, they of course could not have or live within say 500 miles of the St Lawrence Seaway. If they wanted to "separate" they would have to move part and parcel away from that part of Canada so they could be independent. They of course could also not have any control over the electricity network in Quebec that feeds the N. E. part of the States as that belongs to Canada. They could of course negotiate fees for buying electricity from Canada, but they would need to be far enough away from the existing power stations so that a now "foreign" country could not damage that Canadian network.

Ridiculous of course, and it was intended to be.

A country that historically was a country wants to break free from the control of another country, the people in that country should have that right; but when just a group of people that want to be in control of the whole, and are pouting because they will never be in control of the whole, then try and take something away from the whole so those pouting can feel like they are now somebody...to me that is just wrong.

Oh dear renegadedog, how idiotic of you!

Tibet was never a country. It has always been part of China since before it even had a name. Tenzin Gyatso is from Qinghai, also a part of China. He is Chinese.

He is called a traitor because that is what he is. He was paid by America - the American Ambassador to India Henderson was the frontman of the "offer" - to turn his back on the people of Tibet because the American govt. of the time was busy terrorizing their own people in the masturbatory orgasm that was McCarthyism. He was paid to violate an agreement that would allow the people of Tibet to be free from the evil slavery they suffered under; to violate and agreement he signed that would allow the people of Tibet to get an education, own their own land, own their own bodies...and he accepted the con. Mind you, back then he was just a kid, not even 20 yet, so it was easy for Henderson to con him and his brothers into accepting money to be traitors.

Since then he has continued to be a traitor as well as a terrorist and a liar.

Calling him a traitor is exactly correct.

My Gawd but your childish!

I would really rather use this thread that is supposed to be about Tibet for the truth about Tibet, but what the heck, I'll do both.

Since you don't know anything about China and have never lived in China, can't read or write or speak or understand the Chinese language, your little protestations about what is and what is not talked about in China by Chinese people are irrelevant. All you know about China is what you are told by someone who knew someone that heard it from someone who read it in a newspaper in an article written by someone who also didn't know.

I'll try again...I don't care about American laws. I don't care if someone gets jailed in America because they choose to go against the American govt. in America. It is irrelevant to me. The point was not and is not if someone was jailed - go back and read your first bit of tripe - it was about the Patriot Act, directions to the relevant section of the act provided for you out of the goodness of my heart, - and the similarity of the laws allowing BOTH govt's to read emails, trace senders and recipients, arrest if it is felt by the investigators that a law was broken.

I don't know if anyone in the States has been arrested for criticizing the American govt...and neither do you. Of course, numerous protesters in the States are arrested on a regular basis for protesting against the American govt. Here's just one from Faux News about 83 protesters being arrested...is that being arrested for criticizing the govt? Here's the Faux News() link: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,299959,00.html.

How about 6 arrested at a Baby Bush rally? Is that being arrested for criticizing the govt? Here's that link: http://www.aclu.org/freespeech/protest/11525prs20041014.html

Seems you are as lacking in knowledge about America as you are about China...or you just don't know how to use Google!

Education is free in Canada??? Wow, my family got screwed paying for all those damn books and little "extras" then. Too late now though. As for medicare being free...well, you are starting to confuse me since you either aren't Canadian or don't get a paycheck. Deductions for medicare are taken off of every paycheck. In Alberta, where I'm from, ol' Ralphie began to allow hospitals and doctors to charge extra for visits if they want. So you're wrong again. As well, if one wants or needs an operation that isn't covered under medicare, extra payment is required.

As for your next, I see now you are trying to change from Chinese people needing permission to have children - which they do not - to needing permission to have more than one. No sweat, I already explained it to you. Just because you can't get past your racist tendencies to note the difference is again irrelevant. No person in China needs to go and get permission to have a child and ONLY the members of the majority Han ethnic group living in cities need to be concerned IF they want more than one child. This is a policy established to save Chinese society and it has worked admirably in keeping the population stable. You don't like it, nobody cares. China has 55 ethnic groups and the policy isn't even relevant to any of those ethnic groups other than the Han majority...and they have lots of children.

Your whining because the China govt is actually a government that understands what the word govern means simply demonstrates your lack of understanding. It is the responsibility of a government to do whatever is necessary to ensure a stable society. You also fail by lacking the understanding that a different society has different societal norms. In China - and some other countries - the right of the society trumps the right of the individual. That's the way it is in China and guess what? They have the right to make that decision. The stupidity of a society that puts the right of the individual above the right of the society makes such a backward society a failure...and ruins the lives of the people in that society. It is a mistake to put the individual above the society - any society - because that leads to failure.

What you do in your own backyard is your business. If your government is so backward (although since you suggest you're a Canadian it's also my govt., especially since I still have to pay taxes to the Canadian govt even though I live and work in China) - that they put the individual above the society then "they" are not a government.

So you agree that if someone breaks a law they are subject to arrest? That's at least a sign that you can understand. Guess all that's left is for you to realize that China is a sovereign nation with the right to promulgate and enforce adherence to China laws. As well, of course, as realizing that China does not have to pay any attention to the laws of any other country in relation to China.

But as was pointed out above, people in the States - as well as other countries - are jailed for protesting against "their" govt.'s, so your protestations are moot.

I also see you don't know anything about the Communist system, either the Russian style or the very much different China style. It's like the many bastardizations of the original concepts of democracy in that respect. Just like there are no two countries that practice - and it is only practice - democracy in the same way...just Canada and the States for example where the differences are legion...the principles of Communism adopted by any nation choosing to so adopt any, all, some or whatever of the original concepts, all vary.

You may think the backward systems of democratic countries are acceptable, but they aren't. They fail the people that most need the government...but the stooges in government in those countries make out like thieves, granting themselves everything they deny their own people. Time for you to study up on political science - but with a world view if possible for you and not the insulated type it appears you have heard about.

Here, this may help, a quote from Dr. Sun Yat Sen, and if you ever have the time to read his book "The Three Principles of the People" then perhaps you will understand: "An individual should not have too much freedom. A nation must have absolute freedom." Sun Yat Sen

A true, REAL government realizes that allowing the individual to run rampant is the most heinous act of a morally and ethically bankrupt nation. Machiavelli liked it of course, he said that the best way to control the people is to allow them access to their most base animal desires and then they wouldn't really try and change their servitude. America is like that now as is Canada and Britain and Australia just to name 4 backward countries with ineffective governments.

The key is: China has the right to do what China wants in China. America has the right to do what America wants IN America...but America has NO right to try and force any other country in the world to adhere to the failed American model.

I see you're still struggling to find a "human" right to post but still feel spewing the usual vacuous propaganda rhetoric is fine. No biggy, I know better. Hey, here's a real hint...there are only 2 - that's right, count 'em - 2 "human" rights, and one is dependent on the first: the right to be born and the right to die. All others are rights granted to the individual from whichever country they are born. All other rights are either political or social and the ones in one country have no relevance to any other country UNLESS that other country wishes to adopt the political rights and social norms of another country.

China will NEVER accept whole-hog the political and social rights of any other country. China is smart enough to examine and choose the aspects that are relevant to China's history, culture and desire for the future.

I also care nothing about people from China who live in Canada or the States who tell people they meet what they think those people wish to hear. Hey, I understand. Being allowed to do whatever one wants, accepting the con that the individual is more important than the nation, is addictive; I get it. That doesn't make it "right" and it certainly doesn't make it applicable to any other country.

So keep your political rights and social norms. They belong to you. China has her own and they belong to China. China is not America. China has more people in just one city than we have in the entire country of Canada...and the political system in Canada can't even deal with the measly 30 million we do have. There is no way in hell it would ever work in a country of 1.4 Billion people.

My gawd!!! Who dresses you each afternoon, anyway???

The Patriot Act is an American law. I don't care about American laws because I'm not an American and so am not required to accept any American law. I don't investigate who or when any American is arrested for violating American law, that's your business as an American. It concerns nobody except an American. Hell, if it concerned the rest of the world, Baby Bush would already be swinging beside Saddam!!!

I pointed out to you that the Patriot Act is an American law.

The people in China DO NOT need government permission to have a child and that is a fact. If members of the Han majority ethnic group living in a city wish to have more than one child, then they can do so. But, since unlike America - just for an example, not yankee-bashing here - in China education is free up to the 9th grade as is medical care. If someone of the Han majority ethnic group living in a city wishes to have more than one child, all they have to do is pay in advance for the strain on the infrastructure that would cause. Not a big deal at all. Nice to know that you are so concerned about the people of China having children though, too bad you don't understand the reasoning behind the one-child policy...a policy that could very well be extremely valuable to America. After all, getting all those morbidly obese women who only have another child because they get a bigger welfare check, off the welfare rolls, would be good for the American economy as well as improving the quality of education due the smaller class sizes in the lower grades.

You still have no idea of what a human right is, do you? All you can see is political rights. Alright, here's one for you: in Holland, they feel it is a human right to be able to choose to partake of a natural herbal product for recreational purposes rather than being forced to use the poison that is alcohol or the even worse poison of prescription drugs. In parts of Africa, they feel it is a human right for them to cut the clitoris off of a little girl so she does not have an orgasm that might embarrass the family. In India, they feel it is a human right for a little girl to be sold as a prostitute. In Islamic countries they feel it is a human right to kill any girl that dares to marry or even have sex with a partner not approved of and arranged by the family.

All of those are of course not "human rights" but they are political and in some cases societal "rights" given by the political and/or social environment in which those people exist.

The biggest problem with Americans when looking at any other country in the world is that Americans have this insane idea that what America wants, all others in the world must accept. Pure idiocy and the most perverted pompousness.

What you do in America - nobody in the world cares about. If Americans are so stupid as to allow baby rapers to live - that's fine and if in other countries they feel that baby rapers deserve to die then that is the right of that other country! It is not America's right or the right of Americans to dictate to other countries and other people how they must run their country or how the people must live in their country.

Deal with it bunkie, it's none of your business. Any sovereign nation has the right to make their own laws. Any society has the right to choose their societal norms.

For any American to attempt to dictate to any person or any other govt in any other country as to how that country must be run or how the people in that country must live is a violation of the rights of those people and a violation of that country's rights to promulgate their own laws and societal norms.

America is NOT the king of the world. Americans are NOT the best people in the world. American businesses are NOT the best businesses in the world and American laws are NOT the best laws in the world.

Your problem, and that of others of your ilk, is that you want to be able to tell every one else how to live their lives, how to think, how to act and how to either live or die.

Such an idiotic attitude is barely worthy of comment but what the heck, I had the time, but it's late here, nearly quarter to 4 in the am and I have work to do and to also attend the world's first truly international Olympic Torch Relay which comes to the city in which I live tomorrow - or, er, later today. 137,000 kilometers - that's the world's usage of distance, I am no longer familiar with the backward American system of miles, I'm part of the rest of the world - the longest of any Olympic Torch Relay ever and it will result in the best Olympics ever as well.

So I'll leave you to try and create something vacuous that I can laugh at and answer to, tomorrow - er, later today, perhaps in the evening.

From about the early-1800's to the freeing of China from the imperialists by the Dean of Humanities from Beijing University.