Jericoacoara wrote:
Jabato, is there much conflict between the local governments of the Canary Islands and mainland Spain?


Not really. We are asking right now for 1.200 millions euros that we consider is the money we need to face social and economic challenges, but our nationalist parties over here are very weak, even when they are governing the islands.

The problem in Spain is our PM, that had encourage vasc  and catalan nationalists -much more powerful than the canarian nationalism- on the secesionims path and that is unacceptable in a PM who is supossed to defend 'till death if neccesary, the territorial integrity of Spain.

Jericoacoara wrote:
I wondered because you are so far away in geographical distance and not a huge voting population, whether the Spanish government gives you low priority?

We are not the richets region of Spain for sure, but we're more or less 1.2 million people in the Canary Island. I live in Gran Canaria with near 400.000 population. Perhaps we are the 9th largest city in Spain.
Our main bussiness is tourism. In Spain we receive, more or less, 42 millions holidaymakers every year. 11 millions people choose the Canaries as their destination. Mainly europeans (germans, brits, frenchs, italians)

Regarding the priority given.....I'm sorry to go back to my PM but.....priority in Spain is given now, depending on our canarian politicians support to our PM, in the National Parliament. And they are not supporting him very much lately. So Cataluña and Andalucía (socialists ruled communities) are having more than 36% of the money we have for the whole 17 spanish autonomous communities. So sectarism is the most important aspect to give high or low priority, for spanish socialist

Jericoacoara wrote:
Also just out of curiosity, is the Canary Islands mainly left voters or right voters?

The most voted party is the socialist. Right wing party (Partido Popular) is in the second place. Nationalits parties in the third.
Right now a coalition between right wing party (PP) and nationalist are ruling the Canary Islands, even when socialist won the last elections.


Saludos

Good question Baldar.

Well Mr. Garzón is from that type of Judges, that "works" better if there is a TV camera in front of him while arresting criminals. That kind of judges that uses an helicopter - TV cameras filming him coming down from the helicopter like in a film-to make an arrest, when Police can do it -I mean the arrest- without his presence. So he is some sort of "publicity lover" judge.

He has been also one of the most important judges conmdening ETA terrorists but he is too politizated. Years ago he was very near to the socialists party of Spain, so near that the former socialists PM, offered him a portfolio in the cased they win the election back in 1992/1993. They won the elections but the former PM didn't give Garzón what he had promised him and then, Garzón began his revenge.
His first move was a striigh shot to the socialist goverment. Socialists had created a terrorist gang to fight ETA, among other criminal acts, and even when I agreed with that gang and their main purpose, I mean, shot terrorists down ASAP, they did it so bad, so unprofessional, that they were caught by Police. What a shame!

So IMO he is a judge that do his job with an important level of politization -always on socialists side- I mean, he can change his mind easily, even when he has been one of the most toughtest judges against ETA, but...........

Many people here say that we love him when he arrests terrorists but we hate him when  he allows ETA supporters demonstrations where terrorists are called heroes.
Remember that in the Vasc country  all politicians, except vasc nationalists do need a armed escort simply to buy a newspaper.

Saludos

I really envy you Jericoacoara!

ME: Wake up a 6.20. Work from 8.00 to 15.00. Second shift starts off a 15.30. Give wife a lift to University which is not far from home. Pick daughter at school at 16.45. Play with her a bit after school (15 minutes), help her with her homework, take her to her ballet lessons (Tuesday and Friday) at 18.30. Pick her up at 19.30. Back home, shower, dinner and then...finally, at last......she is in bed at about 20.45/21.00. And then it is my turn for shower, dinner and just a bit of TV before I go to bed.

I really love my daughter and with no doubt I will kill anyone who dare to treat her bad, but folks, rising a kid is a very tough job.

Right now......Count Basie
Folks...........big bands..........means power

Well this are very good news, but trust me, they will be sentence to.....let's say.......3.205 years but they'll only observe 30 years.

Commiting a crime in Spain is very, very cheap. And criminals know that for sure.

Regarding Garzón he is a very "particular" judge.

First of all I'm sorry for being so late to post again, but I've been a bit busy.

Major Zee Lee wrote:
It does not matter whether it's their mother language or don't.

'Till this line, your last post is simply boring. It is always the same bla, bla, bla but when I reached this line..............Major, Major, ..............LOL!!!!

Major Zee Lee wrote:
Bilinguism by definition means the bilingual is going to speak at least one language which is not his mother language.

Are you sure that's the meaning of bilingual?

Major Zee Lee wrote:
And we just expect people who lives in Catalonia to be bilingual,

You're not expecting, you are forcing people to speak catalán.

Major Zee Lee wrote:
at least to not force people whose mother language is Catalonian to shift HIS language in HIS homeland.


Several mistakes, apart from the typical whinning. first: no one is force not to speak catalán. Second:there is not shifting as spanish is the mother language of the majority. 100% of catalonians perfectly speaks spanishs, as the rest of the spaniards, only with their regional accent, like in any othe country!!!! Third: your homeland is Spain. It is not Catalonia. I deeply respect your opinion, but you're wrong. You can feel that Chechenia is your homeland, because this, this and that, and you are in your right to think that way but, man, for sure your are not a chechenian. Even "when you feel Chechenia deep, deep in your heart" you're still


Major Zee Lee wrote:
...as soon as police doesn't knows you're doing so, of course. Going to Via Layetana and be beat like a punch ball and then dropped into a cell for three days and then be beat again before being "suggested" to s stop speaking "polish" is a sign of freedom rare to come by...

Cry baby cry.......
But Major if Police did their job as good as you say, I mean if they were so efficient repressing catalonian speaking people, why is catalonian understood by 92% of catalonians, according to your figures? or why is spoken by 74% of them? Oh....hell!!and what about the 62% that you say that can write it?

(Ironic mode on)
Yes it is true. Police did their job so well persecuting catalonian spoken people in 1960/1975, that now we have to face sad and cold those figures...(Ironic mode off)

Major Zee Lee wrote:
Ask my grandpas (well, you can't now),

No I can't, and I guess this fact plays in your favor. Perhaps your grandparents would be ashamed of you thinking of them as "aliens" within their country.

Major Zee Lee wrote:
As I said, no matter where you are from, if you come to Catalonia and you are not grown in Catalonia, you will found yourself being an alien.

This is what I've been saying throught this post. Thanks a lot once again. Your english is lightyears from mine and you've explained perfectly. Catalonians politicians, with the money of the spaniards taxpayers -catalonians included- is using that money to spread hate among us using brain washed people like you, that is ready to call his father inmigrant  when he was born in Alicante.

Major Zee Lee wrote:
And this nation has existed for over 1000 years,

(Ironic Mode on)

Yes, yes, .......like........Scotland....1000 years, no, no wait..........2530 years

(Ironic mode off)


Major Zee Lee wrote:
so it's strange how some people STILL is shocked to find out that "Catalonia is different", and make a fuss about it.

The problem is that people are shocked while seeing other people saying that "Catalonia is different", because it is not. It is only in your politicians minds, do you remember them, yes man, the 3% gang.

Major Zee Lee wrote:
And if they plan to EARN MONEY with us, we ask them to use AT LEAST our language. Notice it's an "at least" (por lo menos), not a "just" (sólo).

You are not asking them, once again, you are forcing them. Let's be clear.

I was going to go on with the debate, but I had to use google because I was not sure how to correctly write down this sentence: "catalonian spoken people" and then, the first result google gave me was from your favourite source of knolewdge Major,yes, Wikipedia!!!!!. Do you know what they say about catalonians? -it is very funny, I know you'll like it- Wiki says that "The Catalans are an ethnic group"..... come on Major let's laugh togheter, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, but after this I guess we've reached the end...........my friend

Saludos

Major Zee Lee wrote:
Don't believe it. The decreet is from 2001, who was in Government then?

Is our PM the one who has promoted this situation we are suffering rightnow. It has been under socialism, Maragall, where many of us had been punished for calling our bussines with spanish names. Remember Omniun cultural? 

Major Zee Lee wrote:
How is this "fascism"?
 
Is fascims because you, I mean, the regional goverment of Catalonia, is using the spaniards taxpayers money, catalonians included, to spread hate against the rest of us. It is your comunity the one who is saying that they're a nation when you are not. Is within your community where pictures of our King is being burned in front of your autonomic police, WHO DID NOTHING!!!. It is your comunity the one where non nationalist political leaders receive a bullet with his name at his house. Is your comunity the one where is easier to learn chinesse, cantonesse style, than spanish. Is your comunity the one who has been invited to a Interantional Book Meeting in Frankfurt, and catalonians writers who only write down their books in spanish haven't been allowed to atend that meeting, because "they're not fully catalonianas". For God's sake, many politicians have had to be protected by police in you comunity because they were going to be attacked, why? simply because they wanted to spread their opinion freely......come on, Major, thanks to those nationalist the image of Catalonia in the rest of Spain is going down and down. It is very funny to hear the president of F.C Barcelona, talking about secesionism, and the right of "the brave people of Catalonia to decide their future by themselves"... and it is very funny because if he wants to be independent, why doesn't he take F.C. Barcelona out of the spanish football league? It would be the first step in order to achieve indepndence, but the truth is that they only want more money to deal with.
 
Major Zee Lee wrote:
You ignore too that Catalonian is "understood" by 92% the people living in Catalonia .
 
Er...yes....... the Canary Island are also understood by 99% of it's population. They are cheting you Major, can't you see the weakness of this reasoning, "Catalonia is understood..."
 

Major Zee Lee wrote:
May not be their mother language, but surely people speaks it.
 
Thanks a lot. This is the truth: catalán IS NOT the mother language in Catalonia.
Thank you very much in deed. It is clear now for all.
 
Major Zee Lee wrote:
FAI, my father is from Cartagena, but nonethless he learned Catalonian once he was here -in a time when speaking Catalonian in public was forbidden.
 
It was forbidden but he learned it, what a nice country we are, aren't we? A language is banned but everyone is free to learn it.
 
Major Zee Lee wrote:
As many other immigrants,
 
Why you keep calling your dad "inmigrant". Cartagena, as Barcelona and Gerona are part of Spain. Stop spreading lies. Your dad is not and never has been an inmigrant, except in the case you have a personal definition for inmigrant.
 
Major Zee Lee wrote:
Well, feel free to not learn catalonian. You can perfeclty live in Catalonia without learning Catalonian. Of course, if you plan to work here, Catalonain may help you as it's annoying to go around saying "please, may you repeat it? I don't speak Catalonian". And certainly Catalonian will not stop using their language first just because of a few people (8%) who can't understand it.
 
But didn't you say that for most spaniards living in Catalonia, catalán IS NOT their mother language? Why do you want to force people to learn it if you know that is not their mother language. What is annoying is that if I go to Catalonia -we both agree that spanish is most catalonians mother language- someone answer me in catalán when they speak spanish just as fluent as me. That's annoying and disturbing. And not only that, as I told you, Catalonian image in the rest of Spain is getting worse and worse. Just because nationalism are only interested in looking for those few things that make us differents instead looking for those enormous amount of things we have in common. As the spanish language
 
Major Zee Lee wrote:
And by the way, we don't force individuals to do things. We force business (to an extent) and force some institutions and petition other institutions (always in limited extents). But we don't force individuals.
 
Thanks again Major. At least you admit that force is being used to imposse people catalonian. Why do I have to be force reagarding the way I wanna run my bussiness? Why do I have to spend extra money in the translation of a label, to turn "la suma de los ángulos de un triángulo son 180º" into "la suma dels angles d'un triangle són 180º", Please let me know why do you force tiny bussiness in the rest of Spain that sells their products in your region, to increase their costs of production when the majority of Catalonians do say that spanish is their mother language. This is all from your politicians. Remember the same corrupted catalonian politicians that had been for years, asking a 3% comission of every single public contract to contractors.
 
Major Zee Lee wrote:
You are in your right to not speak Catalonian nor use Catalonian at all. Anyway, your right to not use Catalonian does not overrule the right of other people to use it.
 
So then, why is people being economically punished just for labelling their bussiness as "Bar José Luis" instead "Bar Josep Lluis"? Don't you say that you can use catalonian only if you wish to? 
 
Major Zee Lee wrote:
Anyway, immigrant children from Latin America are offered special immersion courses;

Even the name is disgusting: "special immersion courses"
Man, people from South America are very important in Spain. They come here to work hard and they have probably choose Spain, because of food, feelings, religion and over all, language is the same there and here. I do prefer inmigrants from South America than from any other part of the world: theri costumes and pours are very similar. And to those people who come here to work, in many ocassions in jobs that we don't wanna do, now are forced to learn a language that is nobody's mother language in Spain. I'm proud that different languages are spoken in my country. Absolutely proud. But what your politician are doing since years ago, is using the language to built up a wall between us. to built up barriers and for sure, using the language as a tool to justify the existence of an imaginary nation.
 

Major Zee Lee wrote:
 You know, Catalonian is not a big, spread language (although it's larger than, say, Finnish), but if your plan is to live in Catalonia, it's going to be pretty useful to you...

But don't you see the contradiction? Look, Catalonian is not a big, spread language, right.
Catalonian is not the mother language of the majority in Cataluña.
The most of catalonians say their mother language is spanishs, not catalán, but "if I plan to live in Catalonia it is going to be pretty useful for me?" Do you really think twice before you write down a post Major. How can it be more useful catalonian than spanish when most of the population refuse catalonian as their mother language? ¡Hay que joderse!

Major Zee Lee wrote:
Point 1- the current legislation that determines what language will be used in schools in Catalonia is not Zapatero's. It was passed during PP's government.

I can't hardly believe it. The spanish PP is the only national party with an
unanimous idea of Spain and it's territoriality. Socialist do not have a common idea of what Spain is, nor about it's territorial integrity.

Major Zee Lee wrote:
Point 2- although the vehicular language in Catalonian schools is Catalonian, parents can ask that their children are given the lessons in Spanish. This is accomplished by hiring extra teachers whose only job is, essentially, translate what the other teacher says and provide a Spanish copy of any printed matherial that can't be found in Spanish.

This is simply fascims. More than half of the spaniards living in Catalonia say that their mother language is spanish not catalán. Hiring extra teachers to translate into SPANISH.....in SPAIN? This is unacceptable. As a spaniard if I want to live in Catalonia, which is part of Spain,and I do not want to learn catalán, what is the problem? There are lots of germans and britishs people living in Gran Canaria for years. Many of them do not speak spanish and do not want to learn it, where is the problem? Do we have to force them to learn our language? A clear answer to this questions would be nice.

Major Zee Lee wrote:
Point 3- The legislation about what language must be used in schools in Catalonia has got several purposes, all of them perfectly sensible. First, to ensure that children leave School with the abbbility to use Catalonian proficently even if their parents don't speak Catalonian

What about those spaniards who do not want, me among them, our children to leave School with the abbbility to use Catalonian proficently and rather prefer they leave school with the abbility to use spanish proficently?. This is fascisms.

Major Zee Lee wrote:
-that is, to integrate immigrants, Spanish immigrants included.

A spaniard an inmigrant in Catalonia? Do you think that a brit is an inmigrant in Wales?

Major Zee Lee wrote:
Second, to ensure that children learn Catalonian at all, as this will make their life easier in the future, specially if they plan to have a job that implies contact with any sort of customers.

About 7/8 million spaniards do live in Catalonia. Half of them DO NOT speak catalán, half of them do no recongise catalán as their mother tongue, but you want to force them to do so. I want my daughter to learn a language spoken for more than 400 million people, el español, to ensure that children learn spanish as this will make their life easier in the future, specially if they plan to have a job that implies contact with any sort of customers. What be more useful for a man from Switzerland who come to Spain: learn spanish or learn catalán......Catalán only works in Catalonia, Spanish works in the world.

Major Zee Lee wrote:
Third, counterbalance the massive public pressence of Spanish even in Catalonia. Only 2 out of 8 major TV channels avaiable in Catalonia use Catalonian; there's only 1 out of 6 major Spanish paper that haves a print in Catalonian; and only 2 of 7 major newspapers in Catalonia are printed in Catalonian.

This is absolutely normal when half of the population do not want to know anything about catalán. It is also the prove that all what you say do no represent the majoritie. For sure there would be more newspapers in catalán IF people were interested in it, but they are not. You just don't wanna accept it.

Major Zee Lee wrote:
By all means, to many children schooltime may be the only time when they're able to use and learn Catalonian.

By all means, to many children schooltime may be the only time when they're able to use and learn Catalonian, IF they want to or IF their parents want them to learn catalán. Once again why do I have to be forced to learn catalán?

Major Zee Lee wrote:
Fourth, money for schools in Catalonia is paid by Catalonian taxpayers.

Ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, and ja, ja, ja, Every single euro spent by the Cataluña autonomous goverment come from the same place: the spanish taxpayers. Why do you keep giving the impression that Cataluña is a nation, a country? It is not. It is just a region of Spain. Stop liying. 

Gommi wrote:
I still wish to know his position.

My position is as follow:

Socialists party of Spain has given us the worst period of corruption since 1978. Never ever, the spanish public administration had been loot as much as socialists did while ruling the country.
Why are they a criminal party? Simply because they have commited crime and people who comitt crime are criminals.
And it's not only me the one who says that they're a criminal party: is the Spanishs Supreme Court of Justice, the one that in a judicial sentence that many of them had to enter jail for robbery, murder, torture.......

Did you know that the former socialists Ministry of Interior, had to enter jail because he created a terrorists gang to fight ETA? But they did so bad, so unprofessional, that they were caught. They turned Spain into a criminal State.
Or that the Security Secretary of State stole us 4 million $, entered jail but haven't give the money back. Or tha reserved funds, you know that money every Goverment in the world use for "dirty jobs" was used by socialists to buy jewels for friends, I'm sorry, but I feel really ashamed

The criminal record of the socialists party of Spain goes on and on, but there are so many crimes, that I don't want to bore you.

IMO our socialist party has been also unloyal with my country. Why did they choose this man as the one who could be in charge of Spain when he had nothing to offer? No political record, no professional record. He has never earned a penny with his profession. He has been only an employee of the socialists party. A sixth row PM for..........14 years.

What I mean when I say they has been unloyal, is that if you own a bussiness and thanks to your tough work it is going up and up and your bussines is going so well that you need to open a new one 150 miles away, what would you first ask to the candidates? Yes man, a curriculum vitae in order to check if the candidate is OK or not. You are not gonna put your bussines in other's person hands if he has not the neccesary skills and the required experience to care for your bussines as you would do.
And this is what has happen in Spain. As a result of his non political record, he remained seat in front of the US flag, which is an insult for 250 million US people. Do you know for how long many spanish farmers had been trying to sell orange in the US? Or the investment made by these farmers in order to sell our production in the US, because it is a f*****g 250 million people market!!! Our PM insulting a country does not seem to be a profitable behavior for my country, the one he swore to defend with his hands in our Constitution.

Gommi wrote:
I am confused. According to you, the current Socialist leader is destroying nationalism though is supported by nationalists?

No, no, it is probably my fault Gommi. The current socialists leader won the elections after the Madrid trains attacks but his victory was too short that he had to rule the country with nationalists. Other spanish PM did the same in the past, but none of them has reached these levels. Thanks to him I can't send my daughter to school in Catalonia to learn spanish and only spanish. I don't know it is more or less the same if a brit can't speak english in Wales, neither send his kids to school because there is not english lessons at school, tuition is not in english language anymore, but only welsh......

Regarding the economic policies, what would you think if the US goverment give Paris Hilton a subsidy for giving birth?

Thanks

En fin.......

I also drop by other political boards, not only this one. One day I opened a tread entitled: The Spanish Prime Minister and many forumites just wanted to know my opinion as spaniard and YOU ¡que eres un chiquillaje! came to this other forum to write this:

"->And yes, Jabato, it's me with another name. A "little bird" told me you were here and I just wanted to avoid that someone mistook your anti-PSOE bigotry for reality. Spain already got enough real problems without foreigners believing your bunch..."

A little bird told you......ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, tu miseria personal es deleznable Major.

How mature you are Major! It is amazed. I told you once and I tell you once again: something went wrong with your education. Your parents for sure did their best but ther's nothing in  your head. I tell you, for a father is very hard to realised that all that he has done for your education, had failed. You have come behind me to other forums just to.........I can't find any reason apart that you are only 9 years old, beign generous.

Major Zee Lee wrote once:
I am leftist without socialism and without ideology -just ideals and valors. 

After this sentence, you'll have to agree with me: you're simply an ignorant person
with nothing in your head but birds. Well socialists birds anyway.

I really believe that if you are still a moderator, just resing. You are not honest enough to be a moderator in any board. Perhaps you could moderate debates between people in your mental age, remember, 9 y/o,  but not in a board where mature people, even when they are 18, just want to share their thougs or points of view.
You a the stereotype of those fascist who feel the need to go behind everyone who do not share their belief. You're an integrist, therefore, you can't be a moderator.
Every time you use Wikipedia as the mother and father of all knowledge, you prove that your haven't read many books and taht every little word you write down is just sad propaganda.

Only an ignorant dares to say this:
I am leftist without socialism and without ideology -just ideals and valors
You know that is better to remain in silence and look ignorant that.........
Is not only that you don't know the meaning of socialisms, it is not only you don't know the meaning of the word ideology, the problem is that you haven't got your own and personal opinion, and you just can't have it because of your ignorance.


Major, the ultra/mega/maxi socialists, leader of the poors wrote:
I used to "deabte" with Jabato but I grow tired -he's plugged to rightish propaagnda

So why don't you shut up and simply leave me alone.........kind of Capitán América

I also opened this tread in other english forums I drop by. It took 10 pages.

Saludos........chavalín.

Thank you very muchfor your interest, Gommi.
Here I go.
The socialists party of Spain simply can not be trusted. They are a criminal party because they have commited crime several times. Among those crimes you'll find murder and torture.

How are they violating the Constitution is very difficult for me to explain in english.
But I'll try.
Spain is divided into 17 autonoumus comunities. Each of them with their own Parliament. Each of them with a wide scope: we are allowed to rule our own laws regarding almost everything, with normal exceptions as national defense or international relationship, among others.

There are two of these comunities with very powerful nationalists parties: Catalonia and the Vasc country. But these nationalists parties only represents, more or less, 5/8% of the spanish electoral body and thanks to this "subnormal" PM we are suffering rightnow, Spain is in danger. He is ruling Spain with the aid of those who wnat our destruction as a country.

This retard, who has said that the word "nation" regarding Spain, is not only controversial, but debatable too, -words that are simply unacceptable in a PM that is supossed to defend our land- has promoted, has encouraged those who want the destruction of Spain, remember, probably the first nation to be born in Europe. Italy as a country, for instance, is from the 19th century.

Our PM's seat is supported by those nationalists, so no support, no seat.
Law says that the Spain national flag must be in every single official building. But you just can't see it in those councils ruled by nationalists, but since this stupid is our PM you can't see it either in those councils ruled by socialists.

Man, did you know that someone gave a phone call to ETA terrorists to let them know they were gonna be arrested? Only socialists and the spanish goverment knew about this detention.
Did you hear about ETA terrorists with a 3.000 years sentence, that killed 25 innocents and was released by my PM only for political purposes?

Did you know that thanks to him, I just can't live in Catalonia and rise my daughter in spanish only? Or that many spaniards had been economically punished just because they do not want to speak catalán?
And did you know that he has been negfotiating with ETA and ETA blew up our brand new Madrid airport terminal, killed two in that attack and...............he's still wishing to negotiate with these bastards? He wants to talk, to dialogue with asessins but he refuse to dialogue with the spanish right wing party who represent 10 millions spaniards.

Spain is not a federal country. I got no problem to be federal if we all together decide so in our national Parliament, but he is turning Spain into a federal state without the agreement of 10 millions spaniards. 

¡Esto resulta simplemente vergonzoso Major!. ¡Es intolerable en un moderador!.
¿Qué clase de estupidez es esta?:  "Gommi, be aware that Jabato is....." ¿quién coño te crees que eres para advertir a nadie sobre mi? Eres probablemente el español más chiquillaje e inmaduro de todos los que me he encotnrado en foros de habla inglesa. ¡Niñato malcriado!
¡Estoy empezando a pensar en largarme de este foro en donde eres la imagen perfecta de la malcriadez y la intolerancia!

And now....in english:
This is simply a shame, Major! This behavior is unacceptable in a moderator! What sort of stupidity is this? "Gommi, be aware that Jabato is....." who the hell do you think you are to warn other people about me? You are probably the most chidldish and less mature spaniard I've met in english speaking boards.
I'm beggining to consider the posiblity of leaving this board where you are the perfect image of intolerance and bad mannered person.
How old are you in mental terms?

La verdad Major, aquí si estamos de acuerdo, que a mi también me resultó raro lo de este hilo.

Law? Of course our main law La Constitución, law that he swore to defend and he is  only not defending it, but spitting on it.
Traition is punished in every single democratic country.

As almost always, your so well constructed reasonings, Major.

You're so powerful in a debate that I can only tell you congrats, man