Abraxas
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Karma: +213/-207
Posts: 4,100
"You do not speak for the rest"
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« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2007, 01:00:39 PM » |
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It doesn't have to be government regulation. It could be a political uprising of support for all things decent. And who gets to decide 'decent'? That is my issue. I decide for my kids. Everybody else feel free to do the same for your own. Exactly. My parents' definition for "decent" may be different then yours, but I grew up just fine. What's to say we need government defining what "good" and "bad" are? Chances are good they're wrong anyway. I mean, who wants to take charecter lessons from Senators and Congressmen who commit indecent acts EVERYDAY? |
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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like its from Neptune.
- Noam Chomsky
... you can almost see the high water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
- Hunter S. Thompson
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micfranklin
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« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2007, 01:01:36 PM » |
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Why so quick to make up your mind, Mic?
Because if I'm not quick the government will make it up for me. |
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Retro Fit
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« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2007, 05:54:32 PM » |
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What kids don't realize is how things were before they were born. Injustices, the poverty level, preemptive war, desperation, the homeless, the cost of fines and parking tickets, The ambient noise levels, the constant barrage of advertisements, inflation, the meaner and leaner America....This is normal to them because they have never known the World to be any other way. The worse the economy gets the meaner and more desperate people become...People who have enough money are much more decent then people who do not have enough money. The level of moral decay is proportionate to the level of prosperity.
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Biker Dude
A TRUE Liberal!
Forum Administrator
Hero Member
Karma: +156/-117
Posts: 2,103
Live to Ride, Ride to Live
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« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2007, 06:00:50 PM » |
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Kids don't realize a great many things. How does that affect this discussion?
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 Who will watch the watchers?Now that it is over, what are we going to talk about? |
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Gojira
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« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2007, 08:44:59 PM » |
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I think that corporate marketing is the evil here. We have been instilled with values to buy, buy, buy, useless crap we never even needed, that is parasitic to the home we live in, ruins our mental health with disastrous unrealistic expectations, feeds us crap that is detrimental to our physical health, where PR is not a board in a forum but a scapegoat for when things in the public go wrong like when the government tries to intervene or worse, the consumers themselves. And this is the biggy...
Making us believe in things that don't really matter, are fucking trivial and have nothing to do with whats important in this world today. They have made us become obese, stupid, selfish, depressed automatons that never have the decency to realize that everything they have ever wanted in their life is bullshit and don't realize that the most important things are right in front of their face; like family, community, country and themselves.
FUCK corporate marketers and their disastrous effect on American decency. This country died when the first commercial was aired.
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Our democracy has created an environment of indecision at times of impending crisis.
If life is easy for you, then you aint livin.
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Abraxas
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Karma: +213/-207
Posts: 4,100
"You do not speak for the rest"
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« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2007, 09:01:28 PM » |
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"You're not your job. You're not how much money you have in the bank. You're not the car you drive. You're not the contents of your wallet. You're not your fucking khakis. You're the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world."
- Tyler Durden
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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like its from Neptune.
- Noam Chomsky
... you can almost see the high water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
- Hunter S. Thompson
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Gojira
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« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2007, 09:36:06 PM » |
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"You're not your job. You're not how much money you have in the bank. You're not the car you drive. You're not the contents of your wallet. You're not your fucking khakis. You're the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world."
- Tyler Durden
 "The things you own end up owning you." |
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Our democracy has created an environment of indecision at times of impending crisis.
If life is easy for you, then you aint livin.
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PinkTickingClocks
Full Member
Karma: +12/-13
Posts: 182
Be always at war with your vices.
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« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2007, 12:52:33 AM » |
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Do you think that our values as a growing population (in the body of land known as the United States) are eroding as we become desensetized to certain things through the vast branches of the media in this connected information age? And what specifically do you think is causing this (advertisements, televisions shows, movies, etc)? Also, do you think laws should be enacted to control information more or less? Do you think it will come to that in the future?
I think the question is a little vague, but still I'm tossing in my two cents: I'm a firm believer that our "traditional values" went out the window in the 1960's when it was all "free love and expressing individuality." It was the baby boomers that have the greatest impact on the deconstruction of our "society." They currently are the largest population and wield the most wealth and power. The BBs are just now hitting retirement age, but that doesn't mean that their influence through the polls won't be felt. They are the ones in control. Take for example the pressing restrictions on the video game industry, there are lobbyist trying to prevent the censorship of games: arguing against the fact that it violates the first amendment. It's the simple idea of "pushing the envelope." People are constantly trying to out-perform, out-sell, or create controversy; whatever it takes the make the green, right? Capitalism, freedom, and serving ourself interests; isn't that whats it's all about? Down with censorship! I'm tired of people trying to feed me what to think. Give me the info, and I'll come to my conclusions. That's whats wrong with people, they don't know how to think anymore. |
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If only the transcendent moments were as timeless as a broken clock.
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PinkTickingClocks
Full Member
Karma: +12/-13
Posts: 182
Be always at war with your vices.
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« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2007, 01:12:56 AM » |
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I think that corporate marketing is the evil here. We have been instilled with values to buy, buy, buy, useless crap we never even needed, that is parasitic to the home we live in, ruins our mental health with disastrous unrealistic expectations, feeds us crap that is detrimental to our physical health, where PR is not a board in a forum but a scapegoat for when things in the public go wrong like when the government tries to intervene or worse, the consumers themselves. And this is the biggy...
Making us believe in things that don't really matter, are fucking trivial and have nothing to do with whats important in this world today. They have made us become obese, stupid, selfish, depressed automatons that never have the decency to realize that everything they have ever wanted in their life is bullshit and don't realize that the most important things are right in front of their face; like family, community, country and themselves.
FUCK corporate marketers and their disastrous effect on American decency. This country died when the first commercial was aired.
You sir, need calm down. Ads, commercials, and the subtle ways they're trying to sell you the product is an art. The masses are stupid drones; accept it. They don't care, actually some of them very well prefer it. I mean after all this nation is about capital, and the act of acquiring capital requires buying in order to sell, with goals of creating surplus value or income, right? They buy ad space and time on TV to sell you stuff. You buy and sell yourself. <-- (The fundamental theory of exchange, both parties are better of eh? LOL) |
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« Last Edit: November 28, 2007, 06:22:43 AM by PinkTickingClocks »
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If only the transcendent moments were as timeless as a broken clock.
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2112$
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« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2007, 06:52:02 AM » |
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I think both Gojira and Pink Ticking Clocks are correct. Advertising is an art form, but one that works so well in some cases that it makes people buy things they do not need. I even think that it instills incorrect values in children and other consumers. Some people get a high when they shop, children are probably more prone to getting a high when they receive a new toy, and that trains them for the rest of their life to feel good when they get/buy something new.
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Retro Fit
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« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2007, 08:12:53 AM » |
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Kids don't realize a great many things. How does that affect this discussion? Kid today, morally deficient adult tomorrow. |
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neue regel
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« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2007, 08:38:25 AM » |
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The level of moral decay is proportionate to the level of prosperity. If that were the case, I would think that we would have bottomed out around the time of the great depression. Is that the case? Has this country ever been more prosperous than we are today? If so, when? |
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Gojira
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« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2007, 09:24:03 AM » |
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I think that corporate marketing is the evil here. We have been instilled with values to buy, buy, buy, useless crap we never even needed, that is parasitic to the home we live in, ruins our mental health with disastrous unrealistic expectations, feeds us crap that is detrimental to our physical health, where PR is not a board in a forum but a scapegoat for when things in the public go wrong like when the government tries to intervene or worse, the consumers themselves. And this is the biggy...
Making us believe in things that don't really matter, are fucking trivial and have nothing to do with whats important in this world today. They have made us become obese, stupid, selfish, depressed automatons that never have the decency to realize that everything they have ever wanted in their life is bullshit and don't realize that the most important things are right in front of their face; like family, community, country and themselves.
FUCK corporate marketers and their disastrous effect on American decency. This country died when the first commercial was aired.
You sir, need calm down. Ads, commercials, and the subtle ways they're trying to sell you the product is an art. The masses are stupid drones; accept it. They don't care, actually some of them very well prefer it. I mean after all this nation is about capital, and the act of acquiring capital requires buying in order to sell, with goals of creating surplus value or income, right? They buy ad space and time on TV to sell you stuff. You buy and sell yourself. <-- (The fundamental theory of exchange, both parties are better of eh? LOL) Um, no. Because many people who are subjected to these advertising campaigns don't even know it. And that completely violates the rule of your fundamental theory of exchange: one party profits while the other has no clue why a Gillette shaver is better than the other. It's one thing if they are a learned consumer, but advertising usually distorts the facts and consumers go with that anyway so that then end up duped and taken advantage of. It seems so infantile to argue whether its bad or not because it seems so harmless but most people are not voluntarily purchasing products because Corporate Marketers have done great jobs of finding who you are, knowing who you are, what you exactly want and what you want to hear and will package it in a way that will make you buy it, without any information regarding whether or not you need the product, just that your life will be better with it. AND YOU HAVE NO CLUE THAT THE PRODUCTS YOU PURCHASE IN THE FIRST PLACE A DIRECT CAUSE OF WHAT MARKETERS KNEW ABOUT YOU THAT YOU DIDN'T KNOW THEY KNEW ABOUT YOU AND ENDED UP PROFITING FROM IT. It's called asymmetrical information and the number one reason why free markets are a myth. Look it up. |
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Our democracy has created an environment of indecision at times of impending crisis.
If life is easy for you, then you aint livin.
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PinkTickingClocks
Full Member
Karma: +12/-13
Posts: 182
Be always at war with your vices.
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« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2007, 12:20:58 PM » |
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AND YOU HAVE NO CLUE THAT THE PRODUCTS YOU PURCHASE IN THE FIRST PLACE A DIRECT CAUSE OF WHAT MARKETERS KNEW ABOUT YOU THAT YOU DIDN'T KNOW THEY KNEW ABOUT YOU AND ENDED UP PROFITING FROM IT.
What? I think that corporate marketing is the evil here. We have been instilled with values to buy, buy, buy, useless crap we never even needed, that is parasitic to the home we live in, ruins our mental health with disastrous unrealistic expectations, feeds us crap that is detrimental to our physical health, where PR is not a board in a forum but a scapegoat for when things in the public go wrong like when the government tries to intervene or worse, the consumers themselves. And this is the biggy...
Making us believe in things that don't really matter, are fucking trivial and have nothing to do with whats important in this world today. They have made us become obese, stupid, selfish, depressed automatons that never have the decency to realize that everything they have ever wanted in their life is bullshit and don't realize that the most important things are right in front of their face; like family, community, country and themselves.
FUCK corporate marketers and their disastrous effect on American decency. This country died when the first commercial was aired.
You sir, need calm down. Ads, commercials, and the subtle ways they're trying to sell you the product is an art. The masses are stupid drones; accept it. They don't care, actually some of them very well prefer it. I mean after all this nation is about capital, and the act of acquiring capital requires buying in order to sell, with goals of creating surplus value or income, right? They buy ad space and time on TV to sell you stuff. You buy and sell yourself. <-- (The fundamental theory of exchange, both parties are better of eh? LOL) Um, no. Because many people who are subjected to these advertising campaigns don't even know it. And that completely violates the rule of your fundamental theory of exchange: one party profits while the other has no clue why a Gillette shaver is better than the other. It's one thing if they are a learned consumer, but advertising usually distorts the facts and consumers go with that anyway so that then end up duped and taken advantage of. It seems so infantile to argue whether its bad or not because it seems so harmless but most people are not voluntarily purchasing products because Corporate Marketers have done great jobs of finding who you are, knowing who you are, what you exactly want and what you want to hear and will package it in a way that will make you buy it, without any information regarding whether or not you need the product, just that your life will be better with it. AND YOU HAVE NO CLUE THAT THE PRODUCTS YOU PURCHASE IN THE FIRST PLACE A DIRECT CAUSE OF WHAT MARKETERS KNEW ABOUT YOU THAT YOU DIDN'T KNOW THEY KNEW ABOUT YOU AND ENDED UP PROFITING FROM IT. It's called asymmetrical information and the number one reason why free markets are a myth. Look it up. Of course there will always be an agent problem, it's all fuel by self interests. Marketers are just doing their job, creating markets to sell products. Some consumers are knowledgeable when it comes to ads and products, that's why its called "shopping." There is a difference between "needs" and "wants" and when you begin to categorize thats when people pull out that "subjective" crap. You cannot prevent or stop the exploitation of consumers, laborers, whatever; and thats where Marx was wrong. Right? |
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« Last Edit: November 28, 2007, 12:32:33 PM by PinkTickingClocks »
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If only the transcendent moments were as timeless as a broken clock.
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Retro Fit
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« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2007, 12:43:18 PM » |
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Has this country ever been more prosperous than we are today? If so, when? I think we are living beyond our means now and it cannot last. Having lots of money in your savings account does you no good when it is subject to confiscation through inflation. History has shown you cannot pour trillions of fiat dollars into any economy without it eventually coming back to haunt you in the form of runaway inflation or devaluation. Either way, we lose. So, yes, we are more prosperous now because of many factors revolving around Dollar hegemony and the petro-dollar, but when that ends, and it will end, we will be forced to deal with a currency that is only worth the paper its printed on. |
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