Patton
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« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2007, 06:53:14 AM » |
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Seems we compare the dirt of one candidate to the dirt of another candidate, and decide who's "less dirty"
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Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best; it removes all that is base. All men are afraid in battle. The coward is the one who lets his fear overcome his sense of duty. Duty is the essence of manhood
-George S. Patton
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jpn of Seattle
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« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2007, 07:09:51 AM » |
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Seems we compare the dirt of one candidate to the dirt of another candidate, and decide who's "less dirty"
I just wish voters would compare policies. Democrats: Get out of Iraq, universal health insurance, fiscal responsibility. Republicans: Stay in Iraq for ever, ignore health care, tax cuts for the rich forever, turn America into a theocracy. For an entertaining and slightly tongue-in-cheek view of the differences between parties, click here: http://www.thefrown.com/?/cartoons/55/495 |
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« Last Edit: December 09, 2007, 07:51:41 AM by jpn of Seattle »
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What you got is everything-and I mean everything—run by the political arm. It’s the reign of the Mayberry Machiavellis. --John DiIulio, former White House official
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jpn of Seattle
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« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2007, 07:18:45 AM » |
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The front-runners are there because the polling data says they are there. Polls of random citizens. Well, now you bring up an interesting question. Are they on top because that's all the media reports on... or does the media report on them cause they're on top? I think it's a little bit of both, actually. I mean, Clinton and Guiliani (and of course Fred Thomas) were pretty much well known before they announced their candiaticy... but the others never really broke out. As a result, their plans and their opinions aren't mentioned often, no matter how good (or bad). I was reading some newspaper (sorry, don't remember which) and they had the audacity to say that no one's really talking about the economy and buisness and Social Security and the country's debt. THAT'S ALL RON PAUL IS TALKING ABOUT. I'm not saying this cause I'm a fan of Ron Paul, but more as criticism to the media. Yup. Chicken and egg. I would point out that it was pretty clear that the stories about Huckabee followed his surge in the polls, not the other way around. I think the early leader's "secret" was not name recognition as much as it was money. I'd not heard much of Mitt Romney before this election, or Obama either. Huckabee is surging despite a lack of money, so it's nice to know that money is not necessarily the deciding factor. I don't share your opinion that Paul is the only one talking about issues. In my opinion, Pau's policies are on the fringe and shouldn't be taken seriously. Same with Huckabee's. Huckabee has zero credibility or knowledge or experience in foreign policy, and hadn't even heard of the new NIE regarding Iran a whole day and a half after it had been reported in the news. Huckabee also has some bizarre notions about the economy, and supports a national "fair tax" which is one of those kooky ideas that people embrace until they start investigating the details. |
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What you got is everything-and I mean everything—run by the political arm. It’s the reign of the Mayberry Machiavellis. --John DiIulio, former White House official
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FreeinTX
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« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2007, 10:25:43 AM » |
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Seems we compare the dirt of one candidate to the dirt of another candidate, and decide who's "less dirty"
I just wish voters would compare policies. Democrats: Get out of Iraq, universal health insurance, fiscal responsibility. Republicans: Stay in Iraq for ever, ignore health care, tax cuts for the rich forever, turn America into a theocracy. For an entertaining and slightly tongue-in-cheek view of the differences between parties, click here: http://www.thefrown.com/?/cartoons/55/495LOL!!!! First you say Dems = Get out of Iraq. Give me a break, NONE of them could promise to be out by 2013!!! The two front-runners in the Dem party are flounders on the issue at best. H-ll HITLERY only talks REDEPLOYMENT, not withdrawal. Yet RON PAUL, A REPUBLICAN, says OUT NOW!! Then you say Dems = universal healthcare and fiscal responsibility in the same line. LOL LOL LOL Oh!!! man,stop it. It's starting to hurt!!! How about this expression, "Contradiction of Terms." No, RON PAUL calls for fiscal responsibility, and a return to LIMITS on federal government interference. Real fiscal responsibility, in the way only a CONSERVATIVE can!!!! And the best part, is that he wants to RESTORE YOUR CIVIL RIGHTS!!! and KEEP THE FEDS OFF YOUR BACK!!! and SHUT DOWN THE IRS!!! and FIRE THE FED!!! which, btw, is a privetly owned company that we pay 378 MILLION A DAY to print our money and loan it back to us at a rate THEY decide, and absorbs MOST, like 90%, of the money we pay in taxes every year. FreeinTX |
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« Last Edit: December 09, 2007, 10:32:04 AM by FreeinTX »
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Totino
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« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2007, 11:41:15 AM » |
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Speak for yourself.
hey big boy |
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 \\\"Since you\\\'re going to loose everything anyway when you die, you might as well get rid of it now\\\" \\\"All creations, including god, originate in the mind\\\" |
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Abraxas
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"You do not speak for the rest"
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« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2007, 01:14:20 PM » |
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Seems we compare the dirt of one candidate to the dirt of another candidate, and decide who's "less dirty"
It's sad that the leader of the free world is always the "lesser of 2 evils", isn't it? The front-runners are there because the polling data says they are there. Polls of random citizens. Well, now you bring up an interesting question. Are they on top because that's all the media reports on... or does the media report on them cause they're on top? I think it's a little bit of both, actually. I mean, Clinton and Guiliani (and of course Fred Thomas) were pretty much well known before they announced their candiaticy... but the others never really broke out. As a result, their plans and their opinions aren't mentioned often, no matter how good (or bad). I was reading some newspaper (sorry, don't remember which) and they had the audacity to say that no one's really talking about the economy and buisness and Social Security and the country's debt. THAT'S ALL RON PAUL IS TALKING ABOUT. I'm not saying this cause I'm a fan of Ron Paul, but more as criticism to the media. Yup. Chicken and egg. I would point out that it was pretty clear that the stories about Huckabee followed his surge in the polls, not the other way around. I think the early leader's "secret" was not name recognition as much as it was money. I'd not heard much of Mitt Romney before this election, or Obama either. Huckabee is surging despite a lack of money, so it's nice to know that money is not necessarily the deciding factor. True, with Huckabee. But name recognition is what's helped all the others. Just look at Thompson. He's an absolute dud. Seriously, McCain is more exciting... but he's still in the news and he's still one of the top 3 or 4 candidates. I just don't get it. I don't share your opinion that Paul is the only one talking about issues. In my opinion, Pau's policies are on the fringe and shouldn't be taken seriously. Same with Huckabee's. Huckabee has zero credibility or knowledge or experience in foreign policy, and hadn't even heard of the new NIE regarding Iran a whole day and a half after it had been reported in the news. Huckabee also has some bizarre notions about the economy, and supports a national "fair tax" which is one of those kooky ideas that people embrace until they start investigating the details.
I just meant talking about the economy as a whole and recognizing a serious problem with it and PASSIONATLY talking about it. Speak for yourself.
hey big boy ew... |
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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like its from Neptune.
- Noam Chomsky
... you can almost see the high water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
- Hunter S. Thompson
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Retro Fit
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« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2007, 03:09:17 PM » |
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Yup. Chicken and egg. I would point out that it was pretty clear that the stories about Huckabee followed his surge in the polls, not the other way around.
I think the early leader's "secret" was not name recognition as much as it was money. I'd not heard much of Mitt Romney before this election, or Obama either. Huckabee is surging despite a lack of money, so it's nice to know that money is not necessarily the deciding factor.
I don't share your opinion that Paul is the only one talking about issues. In my opinion, Pau's policies are on the fringe and shouldn't be taken seriously. Same with Huckabee's. Huckabee has zero credibility or knowledge or experience in foreign policy, and hadn't even heard of the new NIE regarding Iran a whole day and a half after it had been reported in the news. Huckabee also has some bizarre notions about the economy, and supports a national "fair tax" which is one of those kooky ideas that people embrace until they start investigating the details. The Media can shape our views as surely as food can shape our waist line. Without media influence we wouldn't even know their names let alone have an opinion of any of them. Huckabee's popularity I think has to do with his personality and experience as a Minister...He's very good with a crowd. I don't agree with many of his views and I'm not going to vote for him, but I can see why he's popular. Paul isn't the only one talking about the issues, but, he is the only one who has learned from history and isn't afraid to speak the truth about the issues...ALL the others are pawns on the chessboard, snake oil salesmen (women). I've heard Paul's idea's called "fringe" by the media many times. I've also heard them say he should not be taken seriously. So, I think you have illustrated the power of the media. To deny the influence media has on Joe public would be as futile as trying to do Presidential hopefuls research by watching an ABC Prime time investigation report on TV. It just won't work. |
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« Last Edit: December 09, 2007, 05:52:43 PM by Retro Fit »
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jpn of Seattle
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« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2007, 10:36:56 PM » |
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LOL!!!!
First you say Dems = Get out of Iraq. Give me a break, NONE of them could promise to be out by 2013!!! The two front-runners in the Dem party are flounders on the issue at best. H-ll HITLERY only talks REDEPLOYMENT, not withdrawal. Yet RON PAUL, A REPUBLICAN, says OUT NOW!! You may want to spend a little less time laughing out loud and a little more time researching. Starting Phased Redeployment within Hillary's First Days in Office: The most important part of Hillary's plan is the first: to end our military engagement in Iraq's civil war and immediately start bringing our troops home. As president, one of Hillary's first official actions would be to convene the Joint Chiefs of Staff, her Secretary of Defense, and her National Security Council. She would direct them to draw up a clear, viable plan to bring our troops home starting with the first 60 days of her Administration. http://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/iraq/ |
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What you got is everything-and I mean everything—run by the political arm. It’s the reign of the Mayberry Machiavellis. --John DiIulio, former White House official
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Abraxas
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"You do not speak for the rest"
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« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2007, 10:46:28 PM » |
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Hilary's admitted on more than one occasion that she may have to keep troops in Iraq... for a little while, anyway.
Also, it's not good practice to quote the persons own website when making a point...
"It's true! She said it!"
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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like its from Neptune.
- Noam Chomsky
... you can almost see the high water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
- Hunter S. Thompson
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jpn of Seattle
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« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2007, 07:25:27 PM » |
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I think the policy section of the candidate's own websites are excellent sources of that candidate's agenda. I think a lot of us here would be well served to spend a little more time researching what each candidate feels is important enough to treat in detail on their official websites, and what they don't.
There is a clear distinction between leading Democratic and Republican candidates regarding the urgency of ending our military involvement in Iraq.
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« Last Edit: December 10, 2007, 07:27:56 PM by jpn of Seattle »
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What you got is everything-and I mean everything—run by the political arm. It’s the reign of the Mayberry Machiavellis. --John DiIulio, former White House official
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OswaldTheOsprey
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« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2007, 02:53:58 PM » |
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I think the policy section of the candidate's own websites are excellent sources of that candidate's agenda. I think a lot of us here would be well served to spend a little more time researching what each candidate feels is important enough to treat in detail on their official websites, and what they don't.
Do you still believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny as well?  OswaldTheOsprey |
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Urbi et Orbi
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Abraxas
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« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2007, 03:04:08 PM » |
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I didn't want to say that. Thanks Oswald.
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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like its from Neptune.
- Noam Chomsky
... you can almost see the high water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
- Hunter S. Thompson
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freethinker
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« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2007, 04:21:39 PM » |
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In defense of JPN , The candidate web sites are not to be read to be believed but as a source of what issues the candidate thinks the public thinks are important. This, though possibly full of lies about what they will do, gives an indication of how they wish to be perceived and that can be quite telling. To ignore this POV into the candidates desired persona would be foolish.
I think that's what JPN meant.
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Yes we can ...and now we will...
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OswaldTheOsprey
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« Reply #28 on: December 11, 2007, 04:40:53 PM » |
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I didn't want to say that. Thanks Oswald.
A pleasure to be of service!  OswaldTheOsprey |
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Urbi et Orbi
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bringbackwigs
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« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2007, 05:18:46 PM » |
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In defense of JPN , The candidate web sites are not to be read to be believed but as a source of what issues the candidate thinks the public thinks are important. This, though possibly full of lies about what they will do, gives an indication of how they wish to be perceived and that can be quite telling. To ignore this POV into the candidates desired persona would be foolish.
I think that's what JPN meant.
All it tells us is how savvy their campaign manager is, nothing more. |
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In religion and politics, people\\\\\\\\\'s beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination. - Mark Twain  |
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