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jpn of Seattle
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« on: December 10, 2007, 07:47:17 PM » |
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It will cost around $50 billion this year alone to prevent the Alternative Minimum Tax from reaching down below the richest taxpayers, its intended target. The Democrats are trying hard to do the responsible thing-- paying for the so-called "patch", rather than just adding it to the nation's debt. The Republicans are fighting them every step of the way. Why? Because the Democrats propose to pay for it by raising taxes by closing tax loopholes for the rich. The GOP can't abide such nonsense. The Democrats passed a PAY-GO rule, which insists on paying for any expense rather than just adding it to the national debt. True, the Senate voted overwhelmingly to pass the AMT patch without offsetting revenues, but only because the GOP promised a fillibuster. Since there are more than 40 Republicans in the Senate, the Dem's know they can't break the fillibuster. "Conservative activists are predicting a 'huge win.' 'It took 11 months, but we broke the Democrats' line in the sand [PAY-GO] that they would never cut taxes,' says Grover Norquist, president of Americans for Tax Reform, an antitax group. http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/1211/p01s02-uspo.htmlThe Republicans. So noble. So proud. So responsible. Such stewards of our future. A brief skim of the following website suggests it's pretty neutral. Here is its "AMT 101" page, with basic facts about the AMT itself, not about the battle in Congress: http://www.fairmark.com/amt/amt101.htm |
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« Last Edit: December 10, 2007, 07:53:55 PM by jpn of Seattle »
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What you got is everything-and I mean everything—run by the political arm. It’s the reign of the Mayberry Machiavellis. --John DiIulio, former White House official
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Opmod
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« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2007, 05:09:16 AM » |
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So the spineless little Dems should have called the repubes bluff. LET THEM FILIBUSTER. Drag the entire governemnt to a halt and shout it from the hill tops that tyhe reason the upper middle class is getting shafted is the Repubes.
Don't go monaing to us becuase they folded like they almost always do.
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\\\"Something witty\\\" Some self impotant blowhard
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neue regel
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« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2007, 06:05:05 AM » |
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The revenue ought to be replaced, either by spending cuts or by other revenue," says Sen. Kent Conrad (D) of North Dakota, who chairs the Senate Budget Committee and voted against the AMT fix. He has it absolutely right. I vote spending cuts. |
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Abraxas
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Karma: +213/-207
Posts: 4,100
"You do not speak for the rest"
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« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2007, 05:16:49 PM » |
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If only the government could actually cut spending.
And jpn, before you blame it on the Republicans, I ask that you look at how much pork this Democrat controlled Congress as hemereged.
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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like its from Neptune.
- Noam Chomsky
... you can almost see the high water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
- Hunter S. Thompson
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jpn of Seattle
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« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2007, 08:33:46 PM » |
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If only the government could actually cut spending.
And jpn, before you blame it on the Republicans, I ask that you look at how much pork this Democrat controlled Congress as hemereged. To get the the thread back on point, the Republicans are holding up an AMT patch because they don't want to pay for it by plugging a loophole used by rich Americans. They'd rather just add it to the national debt. This is a disgracefully irresponsible position to take. |
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« Last Edit: December 12, 2007, 07:33:24 PM by jpn of Seattle »
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What you got is everything-and I mean everything—run by the political arm. It’s the reign of the Mayberry Machiavellis. --John DiIulio, former White House official
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jpn of Seattle
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« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2007, 08:18:57 PM » |
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Republicans won. Instead of paying for the AMT patch by closing a tax avoidance scheme for the richest 5,000 or so Americans, we're going to just tack the cost onto the rest of the federal debt. A huge victory for the Republicans. They must be so proud. Notice how the "liberal media" buries this point in their reporting. You have to go back to my original post to get that information. Oh, that darn "liberal media." Congress Averts Higher Tax Bill for Middle Class
By DAVID M. HERSZENHORN
Published: December 20, 2007
WASHINGTON — Congress on Wednesday gave final approval to a plan that will spare millions of middle-class taxpayers higher tax bills for 2007. The White House welcomed the development and said President Bush would sign the bill.
The tax reprieve postpones for one year only an expansion of the alternative minimum tax, a parallel tax system enacted in 1969 to prevent very wealthy investors from using deductions and tax shelters to avoid paying income tax altogether. The alternative tax has ensnared a growing number of middle-class Americans in recent years because the 1969 law was not indexed to inflation. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/20/washington/20cong.html?hpHere's the passage that should have led the article, that should have been in headlines: House Democrats angrily approved the bill after giving in to demands by Congressional Republicans and Mr. Bush that the tax cut not be offset by raising other taxes. Democrats started the year by pledging to make up for the $50 billion tax fix with cuts in spending or increases in taxes elsewhere.
The Democrats repeatedly tried to get Senate Republicans to back a plan that would have imposed new taxes, particularly on wealthy hedge fund managers, but the Republicans refused. Because the lawmakers did not offset relief from the alternative tax, the national debt will increase by $50 billion. Unfortunately, politics is the art of the possible, and no place for idealists. So facing filibusters and a veto from the White House, the Dems did what they were forced to do. Remember this when you hear that "all the parties are the same." Remember this next November. |
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« Last Edit: December 19, 2007, 08:24:28 PM by jpn of Seattle »
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What you got is everything-and I mean everything—run by the political arm. It’s the reign of the Mayberry Machiavellis. --John DiIulio, former White House official
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Wiglaf
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« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2007, 05:47:15 AM » |
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If only the government could actually cut spending.
And jpn, before you blame it on the Republicans, I ask that you look at how much pork this Democrat controlled Congress as hemereged. To get the the thread back on point, the Republicans are holding up an AMT patch because they don't want to pay for it by plugging a loophole used by rich Americans. They'd rather just add it to the national debt. This is a disgracefully irresponsible position to take. I agree. Republicans may have held the reputation for being more fiscally responsible in past eras, but their record during my lifetime is one of government by theft of the resources of the next generation. It's really quite appalling. |
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. . . sometimes it seems that one has to lean into the wind to stand straight.
James Welch Winter in the Blood
Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution,no law, no court can even do much to save it.
Judge Learned Hand
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freethinker
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« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2007, 08:57:51 AM » |
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I agree with Opmod. The mere threat of filibuster sends everyone on capital hill scurrying for compromise. Call the repiglicon's bluff , let them show their true colors, grinding government to a halt to protect tax avoidance for their wealthy constituents.
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Yes we can ...and now we will...
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gommi
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« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2007, 11:08:39 AM » |
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The Democrats are truly proving themselves to be the more fiscally responsible party.
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\"Ideological and moral confusion are signs of a higher consciousness\".
__IAPer since 2004__
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Gojira
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« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2007, 01:23:11 PM » |
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The Democrats are truly proving themselves to be the more fiscally responsible party.
At the expense of higher taxes... Which ain't bad. Everyone knows in Finance 101 that the rich can hide their debt in municpals and get guarenteed real returns tax fee. Then we would have the addition of high tax revenue and our government indebted to the rich, whoopee! |
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Our democracy has created an environment of indecision at times of impending crisis.
If life is easy for you, then you aint livin.
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Abraxas
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Karma: +213/-207
Posts: 4,100
"You do not speak for the rest"
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« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2007, 01:48:26 PM » |
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The Democrats are truly proving themselves to be the more fiscally responsible party.
At the expense of higher taxes... Well, you have to fill the hole with SOMETHING. At least they have PAYGO too. It doesn't make sense not to... |
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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like its from Neptune.
- Noam Chomsky
... you can almost see the high water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
- Hunter S. Thompson
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Gojira
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« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2007, 01:55:35 PM » |
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The Democrats are truly proving themselves to be the more fiscally responsible party.
At the expense of higher taxes... Well, you have to fill the hole with SOMETHING. At least they have PAYGO too. It doesn't make sense not to... I have no problem with the rich paying for filling those holes. Just understand that tax free municipal bonds will be flooded with their money. Which is good I guess... I just love how everyones view on taxes is so one sided. Tax bad arghhh!!! Tax good whoopee!!! If this country was run by economists we wouldn't be havign these problems ugh |
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Our democracy has created an environment of indecision at times of impending crisis.
If life is easy for you, then you aint livin.
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Abraxas
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Karma: +213/-207
Posts: 4,100
"You do not speak for the rest"
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« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2007, 02:10:19 PM » |
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We have these problems because it's run by economists. Arrogant ones.
No one knows how the damn economy works and NO ONE'S willing to admit you need to change with the market. The tax cuts worked in the beginning... but you can't keep doing it forever. Eventually you have to balance out with more taxes... but can't keep doing that all the time cause you gotta start giving tax cuts...
The whole thing is rather maddening.
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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like its from Neptune.
- Noam Chomsky
... you can almost see the high water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
- Hunter S. Thompson
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Gojira
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« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2007, 02:44:02 PM » |
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We have these problems because it's run by economists. Arrogant ones.
No one knows how the damn economy works and NO ONE'S willing to admit you need to change with the market. The tax cuts worked in the beginning... but you can't keep doing it forever. Eventually you have to balance out with more taxes... but can't keep doing that all the time cause you gotta start giving tax cuts...
The whole thing is rather maddening.
No way. Economists have never had an influence over this nation except over the money supply and they only make decisions based on what the economy has done already. No, what you are talking about is the Reagon tax cuts implemented by a politician who took an economic theory and blew it way out of proportion. Supply-side economics is not economics. It is a disgrace to economics. The only way we will solve our problems is if an "economist" is able to rationally think what is best for our nation by evaluating costs and benefits and then determining an action that leave everyone better off. When politicians begin including their voters and self-interest groups in their analysis they inevitably make bad decisions. There is tons of literature of economists agreeing on many things no matter who you are (neo-classical or neo-keynsian) that would make these decisions but of course politicians have to fuck it up. You must realize that many of the crazy ideas that many of these economists and politicians propose are just ridiclous theory that can not be tested but because it is economics, it's kosher. Thats what I call BS. |
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Our democracy has created an environment of indecision at times of impending crisis.
If life is easy for you, then you aint livin.
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jpn of Seattle
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« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2007, 09:59:29 AM » |
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We have these problems because it's run by economists. Arrogant ones. Gotta disagree with this. Economists have a very good idea of how much of the economy works, at least at broad brushstrokes. Mainstream economists knew that Bush's tax cuts in 2001, 2, and 3 were not designed to stimulate the economy. They were designed to slash taxes on Bush's key supporters. They were politically motivated, not economically motivated. Economists didn't suggest that the AMT patch not be paid for. Politicians (Republican ones) decided to do that because they didn't want 5,000 of the richest Americans to be forced to pay their taxes at the same rates that the rest of us do. |
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What you got is everything-and I mean everything—run by the political arm. It’s the reign of the Mayberry Machiavellis. --John DiIulio, former White House official
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