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Author Topic: Human Evolution: Faster than thought over last 50K years  (Read 1342 times)
daedalus 2.0
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« on: December 11, 2007, 09:56:59 AM »

Selection Spurred Recent Evolution, Researchers Say
 
By NICHOLAS WADE
Published: December 11, 2007

Researchers analyzing variation in the human genome have concluded that human evolution accelerated enormously in the last 40,000 years under the force of natural selection.

The finding contradicts a widely held assumption that human evolution came to a halt 10,000 years ago or even 50,000 years ago. Some evolutionary psychologists, for example, assume that the mind has not evolved since the Ice Age ended 10,000 years ago.

But other experts expressed reservations about the new report, saying it is interesting but more work needs to be done.

The new survey — led by Robert K. Moyzis of the University of California, Irvine, and Henry C. Harpending of the University of Utah — developed a method of spotting human genes that have become more common through being favored by natural selection. They say that some 7 percent of human genes bear the signature of natural selection.

By dating the time that each of the genes came under selection, they have found that the rate of human evolution was fairly steady until about 50,000 years ago and then accelerated up until 10,000 years ago, they report in the current issue of The Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. The high rate of selection has probably continued to the present day, Dr. Moyzis said, but current data are not adequate to pick up recent selection.

The brisk rate of human selection occurred for two reasons, Dr. Moyzis’ team says. One was that the population started to grow, first in Africa and then in the rest of the world after the first modern humans left Africa. The larger size of the population meant that there were more mutations for natural selection to work on. The second reason for the accelerated evolution was that the expanding human populations in Africa and Eurasia were encountering climates and diseases to which they had to adapt genetically. The extra mutations in their growing populations allowed them to do so.

Dr. Moyzis said it was widely assumed that once people developed culture, they protected themselves from the environment and from the forces of natural selection. But people also had to adapt to the environments that their culture created, and the new analysis shows that evolution continued even faster than before.

The researchers took their data from the HapMap project, a survey designed by the National Institutes of Health to look at sites of common variation in the human genome and to help identify the genes responsible for common diseases. The HapMap data, generated by analyzing the genomes of people from Africa, East Asia and Europe, has also been a trove for people studying human evolutionary history.

David Reich, a population geneticist at the Harvard Medical School, said the new report was “a very interesting and exciting hypothesis” but that the authors had not ruled out other explanations of the data. The power of their test for selected genes falls off in looking both at more ancient and more recent events, he said, so the overall picture might not be correct.

Similar reservations were expressed by Jonathan Pritchard, a population geneticist at the University of Chicago.

“My feeling is that they haven’t been cautious enough,” he said. “This paper will probably stimulate others to study this question.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/11/science/11gene.html?ref=science
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« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2007, 10:22:04 AM »

...Robert K. Moyzis of the University of California, Irvine, and Henry C. Harpending of the University of Utah ... report in the current issue of The Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

Current and recent issues of PNAS don't seem to have papers by these two authors or something with a similar title.
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« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2007, 10:48:07 AM »

...Robert K. Moyzis of the University of California, Irvine, and Henry C. Harpending of the University of Utah ... report in the current issue of The Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

Current and recent issues of PNAS don't seem to have papers by these two authors or something with a similar title.

I found these:
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/search?fulltext=Robert+K.+Moyzis+&submit.x=8&submit.y=11

Are you talking about the specific research? I just assumed you would need a subscription to view it. Hold on.


edit: Here:
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/99/1/309?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=Harpending+Moyzis&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&resourcetype=HWCIT
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« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2007, 12:22:47 PM »

The first one is probably the right one. I wonder why this paper (from last year) has been mentioned in several media these days. The 2006 paper mentions 1.6% of genes under recent selection, I would like to see where did the new 7% come from.
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Slovenc, tvoja zemlja je zdrava in pridnim nje lega najprava.
Pólje, vinograd, gora, morjé, ruda, kupčija tebe rede.
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« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2007, 08:03:33 AM »

The articles seem to confirm that modest alterations in non critical and begnine areas of protein structures proceed roughly in proportion to those predicted by mutation rates, and genetic drift.  Still billions and billions of times too slow to account for observed diversity when we look at the critical alterations required to define new functional proteins with different spacial and binding site configurations.  The article conveniently leaves this fact out.  The articles confirm what we already know about the limited capability of evolutionary processes but does nothing to show how evolution might account for the kind of changes required to change an ape into a human.

An article that discusses this predicament fairly well is by Gavrilets, in 2004 "Fitness landscapes and the origin of species", published by Priceton University Press.

At what rate does observed evolutionary processes create new protein function require to define a new species and new structures?  Experimental evidence answers this quesion and the answer is that it doesn't get far and  Theoretical Biology shows us why.  This article provides an explanation for why that is.  Orr shows that mutation of a single gene is likely to take on average two steps along a prospective pathway before getting stuck, unable to proceed because the next steps are detrimental.

Orr, H. A., 2003, A minimum on the mean number of steps taken in adaptive walks, Journal of Theoretical Biology 220
 
  The evidence suggests the rate is billions of billions times too slow.  These studies you have provided are simply confusing the two issues.

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daedalus 2.0
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« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2007, 08:09:40 AM »

And in 2005 Orr was shown to be wrong:

Quote
A sharp minimum on the mean number of steps taken in adaptive walks

Noah A. Rosenberg, 
Department of Human Genetics and Bioinformatics Program, University of Michigan, 2017 Palmer Commons, Box 2218, 100 Washtenaw Avenue, Ann Arbor, MI 48109-2218, USA
Received 12 August 2004;  revised 16 March 2005;  accepted 22 March 2005.  Communicated by David Krakauer.  Available online 23 June 2005.



Abstract
It was recently conjectured by H.A. Orr [2003. A minimum on the mean number of steps taken in adaptive walks. J. Theor. Biol. 220, 241–247] that from a random initial point on a random fitness landscape of alphabetic sequences with one-mutation adjacency, chosen from a larger class of landscapes, no adaptive algorithm can arrive at a local optimum in fewer than on average e-1 steps. Here, using an example in which the mean number of steps to a local optimum equals (A-1)/A, where A is the number of distinct “letters” in the “alphabet” from which sequences are constructed, it is shown that as originally stated, the conjecture does not hold. It is also demonstrated that (A-1)/A is a sharp minimum on the mean number of steps taken in adaptive walks on fitness landscapes of alphabetic sequences with one-mutation adjacency. As the example that achieves the new lower bound has properties that are not often considered as potential attributes for fitness landscapes—non-identically distributed fitnesses and negative fitness correlations for adjacent points—a weaker set of conditions characteristic of more commonly studied fitness landscapes is proposed under which the lower bound on the mean length of adaptive walks is conjectured to equal e-1.


Try to keep up with the science, RF, not the Creationist literature.
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« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2007, 08:35:17 AM »

Orr's article describes several situations and makes several points on this topic.  Rosenberg's refinement makes my point stronger since he claims the minimum average is even faster that Orr's claim thus indicating that evolutionary processes are theoretically likely to get stuck sooner in a prospective pathway.
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« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2007, 01:09:17 PM »

Quote
Still billions and billions of times too slow to account for observed diversity when we look at the critical alterations required to define new functional proteins with different spacial and binding site configurations.

No, no, no........here's one.

Quote
The evidence suggests the rate is billions of billions times too slow.  These studies you have provided are simply confusing the two issues.

So you don't find the apparent progression of the hominid fossil record a little....odd?
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« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2007, 01:19:29 PM »

Quote
Still billions and billions of times too slow to account for observed diversity when we look at the critical alterations required to define new functional proteins with different spacial and binding site configurations.

No, no, no........here's one.

Quote
The evidence suggests the rate is billions of billions times too slow.  These studies you have provided are simply confusing the two issues.

So you don't find the apparent progression of the hominid fossil record a little....odd?


Aw, that's a low blow and unfair and you know it!  How dare you confuse the issue with the multiple lines of evidence!  You are supposed to ignore anything that doesn't have to do with his Argument from Improbability. Can't you see he's trying to create a reason not to believe science? Grin

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« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2007, 02:22:57 PM »

Quote
Still billions and billions of times too slow to account for observed diversity when we look at the critical alterations required to define new functional proteins with different spacial and binding site configurations.

No, no, no........here's one.

Explain to me exactly what alterations occured, where the proteins were derived from and what binding sites were created and at what rate.  Then we can see if this example is proceeding fast enough to account for observed diversity or not.  If it does in erv's then we can ask how that relates to eukaryotes.  I and anxious to hear your explanation.

Quote
Quote
The evidence suggests the rate is billions of billions times too slow.  These studies you have provided are simply confusing the two issues.

So you don't find the apparent progression of the hominid fossil record a little....odd?

The fossils tell us nothing about how they were generated and what relationships may exist.  They only tell us that these particular configurations existed a one time or another.  I do not dispute diversity.  Fossils demonstrate diversity.  I am wondering how evolutionary processes account for the diversity we admit.
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« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2007, 08:34:21 AM »


Quote
The fossils tell us nothing about how they were generated and what relationships may exist.

That may be disturbing news to the cladists.

Quote
They only tell us that these particular configurations existed a one time or another. 

One time or another? I believe the timing is fairly specific. I imagine if you had credible problems with the dating of the geologic column you would have brought that up by now.

Quote
I do not dispute diversity.  Fossils demonstrate diversity.

So if these fossils represent different "kinds" at different times you have no objection to the concept of change through time? Can common descent be far behind?

Quote
I am wondering how evolutionary processes account for the diversity we admit.

So is everyone else. That's why they do the work. I'm pretty sure it would be evident by now if modern biology was totally on the wrong track. But if you have a viable alternative to descent with modification, let's hear it.



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daedalus 2.0
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« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2007, 09:33:30 AM »


The fossils tell us nothing about how they were generated and what relationships may exist.
Nothing?

RF, how are we supposed to interpret this in any other way than you are a Young Earth Creationist? You are "Dr." Kent "Dino" Hovind, Jr.

So, I imagine that the scraps of parchment that have a few verses of the Bible tell us nothing about how they were generated or what relationships may exist.  Since the earliest complete Bible is centuries after the fact, and you are negating dating, how can you recreate the "fossil" record of your Bible so that it makes sense.

Do you see the double standard you have set for yourself?

If you only take a fossil as a single point, then you must take each scrap of parchment as a single point and not extrapolate/infer as to whether they were part of a larger piece, or relationship.
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« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2007, 12:30:26 PM »

Came across this. Maybe the scientists on the board will find it interesting.

http://endogenousretrovirus.blogspot.com/2007/08/michael-behe-please-allow-me-to.html

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\\\\"SUCK IT, JESUS!\\\\" Kathy Griffin
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« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2007, 03:42:29 PM »


The fossils tell us nothing about how they were generated and what relationships may exist.
Nothing?

RF, how are we supposed to interpret this in any other way than you are a Young Earth Creationist?

Perhaps you can tell us what specifically the fossils tell us about how they were created?

 The fossils don't provide any information about gentics or developmental control or biological processes.  All they tell us is that a one time in the past a particular organism had a general configuration the generally looks similar to other organisms from similar or different time periods.

Quote
So, I imagine that the scraps of parchment that have a few verses of the Bible tell us nothing about how they were generated or what relationships may exist.  Since the earliest complete Bible is centuries after the fact, and you are negating dating, how can you recreate the "fossil" record of your Bible so that it makes sense.

Do you see the double standard you have set for yourself?

If you only take a fossil as a single point, then you must take each scrap of parchment as a single point and not extrapolate/infer as to whether they were part of a larger piece, or relationship.

First off, encoded deterministic information and written languages are not chance or constrained chance events. When we see the same (not similar, the same) content and context, we are justified in drawing a direct relationship between them.  When we find fossils that are the same (not similar) we can make a similar inference.

However as the differences stack up we should infer relationships in either case if we know of a process that accounts for the differences and all the conditions this process requires are met.  Genetic engineers have demonstrated that design can account for many differences observed in the fossil record but evolutionary processes have failed to demonstrate that it is capable of such large observed differences.  So if you want to argue that the fossil record provides a glimpse into the history of design of the range of diversity capable, you may well be on solid ground.  If you wish to use the fossil record for the history of materialistic progressions one must first demonstrate that evolutionary processes are capable of the diversity you are assigning to it.

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daedalus 2.0
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« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2007, 04:50:06 PM »

Rf, this is why I worry about you.  The fossil record doesn't JUST tell us that "an organism had a particular configuration".  This is so blatantly a lie or misrepresentation that I wonder if you even care what you say.

The fossil record tells us that organisms gained in size and complexity over time, are millions of years old and had certain configurations at certain times and not others.

For you to ignore the implications shows that you are trying to be ignorant.
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