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Author Topic: Christopher hitchens... not a philosopher...  (Read 184 times)
Philosofear
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« on: December 11, 2007, 02:51:53 PM »

I think its interesting how you have Christopher Hitchens and Dawkins arguing with theists about philosophy and theology. I am glad that they are raising newfound interest in philosophy, but their not really philosophers, yet they seem to act like they are the authority on the matter.

I don't know, I just think instead of listening to scientists and writers on the topic of philosophy, perhaps we should listen to the philosophers... however as history shows, something as such would be something quite new, nobody seems very fond of philosophers.
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IamMe
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« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2007, 03:09:23 PM »

I think its interesting how you have Christopher Hitchens and Dawkins arguing with theists about philosophy and theology. I am glad that they are raising newfound interest in philosophy, but their not really philosophers, yet they seem to act like they are the authority on the matter.

I don't know, I just think instead of listening to scientists and writers on the topic of philosophy, perhaps we should listen to the philosophers... however as history shows, something as such would be something quite new, nobody seems very fond of philosophers.

Shall I just go then? Since I'm not a philosopher either then clearly my thoughts are worthless.

(BTW, science is a form of philosophy. Oh, and what about Dennett?)
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\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell

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Philosofear
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« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2007, 05:20:43 PM »

I think its interesting how you have Christopher Hitchens and Dawkins arguing with theists about philosophy and theology. I am glad that they are raising newfound interest in philosophy, but their not really philosophers, yet they seem to act like they are the authority on the matter.

I don't know, I just think instead of listening to scientists and writers on the topic of philosophy, perhaps we should listen to the philosophers... however as history shows, something as such would be something quite new, nobody seems very fond of philosophers.

Shall I just go then? Since I'm not a philosopher either then clearly my thoughts are worthless.

(BTW, science is a form of philosophy. Oh, and what about Dennett?)

Hmm you took my statement to be more extreme then I intended. I am just illustrating my dismay at the fact that non-philosophers seem to have taken control over the philosophic debate in the public eye. I am not saying that they don't have a right to say it, or even that their wrong, it's just why don't we see philosophers in the public arena battling it out. You always see religion and science fighting (why they would argue makes no since as they aren't even in the same arena) it just seems that philosophers are left out of their own debate.

Science is a form of philosophy, undoubtedly, but it uses a specific predetermined method and tests only physical things, science can't speak on issues of ethics, aesthetics, or metaphysics because thats not what it is designed to do. It's like telling a brain surgeon to go test the seismic activity of a volcano, its just absurd to me.

Oh and what about Dennett? (I am not saying you need a degree in philosophy either, but just some actually knowledge in it would help)
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Factinista
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« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2007, 08:45:34 AM »

This is because scientists are currently pushing the edge of philosophy. With constant new discoveries in biology, physics and psychology they are reshaping the way we view the world. Because we now have a scientific basis for understanding the factual way the universe works (the best we can currently understand) we need to presuppose philosophical "truths" less and less as our unerstanding increases. Not only is the edge of philosophy being pushed aside but it is also being pushed forward in new areas. For example, if the bing bang theory is indeed true then it brings up questions about the origin of that bang... but again these questions will be answered by scientists.

I take the position that philosophy has simply evolved into science.
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IamMe
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« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2007, 12:57:07 PM »

I think its interesting how you have Christopher Hitchens and Dawkins arguing with theists about philosophy and theology. I am glad that they are raising newfound interest in philosophy, but their not really philosophers, yet they seem to act like they are the authority on the matter.

I don't know, I just think instead of listening to scientists and writers on the topic of philosophy, perhaps we should listen to the philosophers... however as history shows, something as such would be something quite new, nobody seems very fond of philosophers.

Shall I just go then? Since I'm not a philosopher either then clearly my thoughts are worthless.

(BTW, science is a form of philosophy. Oh, and what about Dennett?)

Hmm you took my statement to be more extreme then I intended. I am just illustrating my dismay at the fact that non-philosophers seem to have taken control over the philosophic debate in the public eye. I am not saying that they don't have a right to say it, or even that their wrong, it's just why don't we see philosophers in the public arena battling it out. You always see religion and science fighting (why they would argue makes no since as they aren't even in the same arena) it just seems that philosophers are left out of their own debate.

Science is a form of philosophy, undoubtedly, but it uses a specific predetermined method and tests only physical things, science can't speak on issues of ethics, aesthetics, or metaphysics because thats not what it is designed to do. It's like telling a brain surgeon to go test the seismic activity of a volcano, its just absurd to me.

Oh and what about Dennett? (I am not saying you need a degree in philosophy either, but just some actually knowledge in it would help)

Well, I'm sure Dawkins et al would have some knowledge of philosophy. And philosophers are and have been involved in the debate: Dennett, Russell, Nietzsche etc.
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\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell

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Callum
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« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2007, 03:43:14 PM »

This is because scientists are currently pushing the edge of philosophy. With constant new discoveries in biology, physics and psychology they are reshaping the way we view the world. Because we now have a scientific basis for understanding the factual way the universe works (the best we can currently understand) we need to presuppose philosophical "truths" less and less as our unerstanding increases. Not only is the edge of philosophy being pushed aside but it is also being pushed forward in new areas. For example, if the bing bang theory is indeed true then it brings up questions about the origin of that bang... but again these questions will be answered by scientists.

I take the position that philosophy has simply evolved into science.

I agree with a lot of this.  What we call 'science' was once 'natural philosophy' and leading scientists are indeed philosophers in that they are looking beyond the observations for explanations that may involve unobserved, purely hypothetical things - just as gravity, fields, particles, waveforms etc were and even are postulates.  Philosophy concerns precisely those things of which we are unclear - and there is a pretty long list!  Some things, of course, will never become clear - like the 'origin' of the big bang.  Philosophical scientists will have to offer theories conforming to the best of our observations - but they will never be able to confirm them in any scientific fashion.

What we can say is that WITHIN this universe, it is possible to eventually account for everything by reducing it to its physical constituents, history and the laws that govern it.
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