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Author Topic: James Watson Eats (Jim) Crow?  (Read 841 times)
daedalus 2.0
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« on: December 12, 2007, 09:35:20 AM »

Science is progressing at an incredible rate. As I posted, the proof that gayness seems to be genetic, and now, Watson finds that he is blacker than he thought.  We are living in an age when presuppositions are being destroyed in large swaths. Hooray Science!

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/12/science/12watson.html?ref=science

By JOHN SCHWARTZ
Published: December 12, 2007

Now, this is awkward.

James D. Watson, the co-discoverer of the structure of DNA and winner of the Nobel prize, raised a storm recently when a British newspaper quoted him saying that black Africans are not as intelligent as whites. But his own brilliant DNA seems to blur the lines.

A new analysis of Dr. Watson’s genome shows that he has 16 times the number of genes considered to be of African origin than the average white European does — about the same amount of African DNA that would show up if one great-grandparent were African, said Kari Stefansson, the chief executive of deCODE Genetics of Iceland, which did the analysis.

“This came up as a bit of a surprise,” Dr. Stefansson said in an interview, “especially as a sequel to his utterly inappropriate comments about Africans.”

After the news of Dr. Watson’s genetic ancestry was published in The Times of London on Sunday, much of the British media played the news for a lark, with headlines like “Revealed: Scientist Who Sparked Racism Row Has Black Genes” and “DNA Pioneer James Watson Is Blacker Than He Thought.”

But the news, straddling the uncertain boundary of genetic science and society, is more than a Southern gothic drama of racial identity played out on the world stage.

“The irony is bigger, and broader, than his having made derogatory comments and having an ancestral relationship with the folks he insulted,” said Kathy Hudson, the founder and director of the Genetics and Public Policy Center in Washington. As people see what happens to Dr. Watson and others as they undergo what she called the “molecular Full Monty,” the inevitable surprises might “help people make the decision about whether they want their information for themselves, and to ask, Who will I share this with?”

Dr. Stefansson’s company is one of several marketing genome scans that promise to reveal anyone’s genetic propensities for disease, origins and more, for a price. Dr. Watson had already placed his own genome information online, as has another genetics pioneer, J. Craig Venter. Dr. Stefansson said he simply ran the data through his company’s analytical system.

Dr. Stefansson said that because his company had not produced the original data, “I am reluctant, personally, to make much of the analysis.” He added, however, that “on my face, it would elicit smiles.”

The controversy began with an article in The Times of London in October that quoted Dr. Watson, who was on a book tour, as saying that he was “inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa” because “all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours — whereas all the testing says not really.”

According to the article, he said that “there are many people of color who are very talented,” and he hoped people were equal, but that “people who have to deal with black employees find this not true.”

A publicity agent for Dr. Watson, Fraser Seitel, said that his client had no comment on the most recent turn of events, but noted that Dr. Watson, who is 79, “regrets very much what was attributed to him” in the original article and has repeatedly apologized for the comments while also disavowing them.

“Dr. Watson has never believed that the color of someone’s skin, or where they come from, or any other human quality gives any indication whatsoever of a person’s intelligence or potential to succeed in life,” Mr. Seitel said. While not stating explicitly that his client was misquoted in the original article, Mr. Seitel said, “he doesn’t have a recollection of it.”

George M. Church, a professor of genetics at the Harvard Medical School and the director of the Center for Computational Genetics, said he questioned the accuracy of any of the current scanning and analytical services.

Professor Church predicted that as the science of genetics advanced, fuzzy categories like race would become less important because genetic characteristics would point to factors like disease at an individual level.

Meanwhile, he said: “There are still a lot of bigots in the world. Maybe showing these things are more nuanced than they’d like it to be makes them think about it.”
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OswaldTheOsprey
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« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2007, 06:23:38 PM »

Steve Sailer, at VDARE.com, has a different take on the matter.

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http://www.vdare.com/asp/printPage.asp?url=http://www.vdare.com/sailer/071216_race_faq.htm
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« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2007, 05:38:07 AM »

From the article...
Quote
  Q. Why do you talk about race so much?

A. Most human beings talk about race a fair amount. I write about it.
No.  He lost all credibility right here.  No, most people do not talk about race a lot.  I have had a total of one conversation at work in 6 months about race, and I started it.  He needs to get in touch with reality a tad more, and stop fabricating reasons to be bigoted.
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« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2007, 09:00:13 AM »

From the article...
Quote
  Q. Why do you talk about race so much?

A. Most human beings talk about race a fair amount. I write about it.
No.  He lost all credibility right here.  No, most people do not talk about race a lot.  I have had a total of one conversation at work in 6 months about race, and I started it.  He needs to get in touch with reality a tad more, and stop fabricating reasons to be bigoted.

Bigoted? Or perhaps just holding views different from yours?

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« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2007, 03:42:09 PM »

A different view can still be bigoted.  Being different does not give you carte blanch to be racist.  He seems to miss that.  Do you?

Keep in mind I think you should be allowed to be a racist if you want.  I would just prefer honesty about it.
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« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2007, 04:28:40 PM »

A different view can still be bigoted.  Being different does not give you carte blanch to be racist.  He seems to miss that.  Do you?

Keep in mind I think you should be allowed to be a racist if you want.  I would just prefer honesty about it.

Racist has become a term like communist was years ago. Something to call people you don't agree with.

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« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2007, 06:01:26 PM »

Racist has become a term like communist was years ago. Something to call people you don't agree with.

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In some cases yes.  I don't use it like that.  You disagree because you share his point of view is all.  All was asking was for you to be honest about it.  But I see you will not admit this point, so it is a fruitless discussion.  So, have at it.
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« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2007, 06:12:38 PM »

Racist has become a term like communist was years ago. Something to call people you don't agree with.

OswaldTheOsprey
In some cases yes.  I don't use it like that.  You disagree because you share his point of view is all.  All was asking was for you to be honest about it.  But I see you will not admit this point, so it is a fruitless discussion.  So, have at it.

To each their own.

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« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2007, 10:09:28 PM »

From the article...
Quote
  Q. Why do you talk about race so much?

A. Most human beings talk about race a fair amount. I write about it.
No.  He lost all credibility right here.  No, most people do not talk about race a lot.  I have had a total of one conversation at work in 6 months about race, and I started it.  He needs to get in touch with reality a tad more, and stop fabricating reasons to be bigoted.
Race has been talked about here more than a little, not always by people with agendas. I was watching national news the other day and race was mentioned more than once in a half hour. I've chatted about race with most of the people I know, not at work true, but I'm not sure why that would matter.  And no one I've talked to has failed to have an opinion which is what I'd expect from people who don't think about it.

But I count myself as racist so maybe I'm not the most reliable gauge of the public at large.
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« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2007, 06:01:15 AM »

A different view can still be bigoted.  Being different does not give you carte blanch to be racist.  He seems to miss that.  Do you?

Keep in mind I think you should be allowed to be a racist if you want.  I would just prefer honesty about it.

Racist has become a term like communist was years ago. Something to call people you don't agree with.

OswaldTheOsprey

Sorry Oswald, unless you can post or he can provide empirical evidence that blacks are not as intellegent as whites then it is bigoted becuase he attributes a charecteristic apon an entire people without provided scietific data to support said claim.

it is NOT sexist to say that the average female is not as strong as the average male. Its is a scientific fact. The same can not be said of intellect and race with evidence to support it.
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« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2007, 09:24:33 AM »

A different view can still be bigoted.  Being different does not give you carte blanch to be racist.  He seems to miss that.  Do you?

Keep in mind I think you should be allowed to be a racist if you want.  I would just prefer honesty about it.

Racist has become a term like communist was years ago. Something to call people you don't agree with.

OswaldTheOsprey

Sorry Oswald, unless you can post or he can provide empirical evidence that blacks are not as intellegent as whites then it is bigoted becuase he attributes a charecteristic apon an entire people without provided scietific data to support said claim.

it is NOT sexist to say that the average female is not as strong as the average male. Its is a scientific fact. The same can not be said of intellect and race with evidence to support it.

Phrase it any way you want, but the accusation of racism does amount to a form of intimidation towards non-conformist thinkers. It is shillingly effective-witness the treatment of Dr. Watson.

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« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2007, 01:25:28 PM »

Is it used as a crutch by many for thier lack of arguement, definetly. Is in an appropriate charge in this case, IMO, just as definetely.

On an aside, I just notised that Barney's smite count is upto 282,,,,good show.
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« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2007, 01:53:11 PM »

Is it used as a crutch by many for thier lack of arguement, definetly. Is in an appropriate charge in this case, IMO, just as definetely.

On an aside, I just notised that Barney's smite count is upto 282,,,,good show.

Perhaps. However, IMHO, if Watson were a truly malignant racist it would have manifested itself long before now. The man is nearly 80. As to the smite count, 282 is more than my applauds & smites and your applauds & smites combined!

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« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2007, 07:02:41 AM »

Is it used as a crutch by many for thier lack of arguement, definetly. Is in an appropriate charge in this case, IMO, just as definetely.

On an aside, I just notised that Barney's smite count is upto 282,,,,good show.

Perhaps. However, IMHO, if Watson were a truly malignant racist it would have manifested itself long before now. The man is nearly 80. As to the smite count, 282 is more than my applauds & smites and your applauds & smites combined!

OswaldTheOsprey

I never said HE was a racist, I said his comments are of a racist natrure. To attribute a qualoity, any quality, to an entire race in lack of scientific PROOF is undeniably racist.

He may just be uncaring as to what others think of his statements. OR it may have been a resent development.
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« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2007, 09:57:04 AM »

On an aside, I just notised that Barney's smite count is upto 282,,,,good show.
Was it something I said? Undecided angel



btw, I'm convinced it's RF and he sets an egg timer every hour... *ding* "time to smite barney!"
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