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Author Topic: Woman was 'ready to die' for her faith  (Read 217 times)
IamMe
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« on: December 14, 2007, 02:17:06 PM »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/woman-was-ready--to-die-for-her-faith-1246435.html

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Woman was 'ready to die' for her faith
By Tim Healy
Friday December 14 2007

A Jehovah's Witness said she believed a blood transfusion was a transgression of "an order from God'' and she was "prepared to die'' for her faith.

The 24-year-old French-speaking woman, known as Ms K, became distressed while giving evidence for the first time in the High Court yesterday.

The evidence was given during the continuing action by the Coombe Women's Hospital for court orders that it was entitled to apply in September 2006 for an injunction allowing it to transfuse her against her wishes.

Examined by her counsel, John Rogers, and speaking through a translator, Ms K said that, after she haemorrhaged, she was told by hospital staff a transfusion was the only solution that would save her life. She said she had refused a transfusion several times, telling the doctors she was an adult and did not want a transfusion.

She accepted it was "no joke" when a doctor gives a warning that a person's life is in danger. However, because of her faith, she did not want any blood and was "prepared to die".

She had told the doctors that, for her, having a transfusion was a transgression of "an order from God'' in the Bible.

It was "breaking the rules'' because it was "written in the Bible that we should not accept blood or blood products''.

"I had to accept that order and it was me who had to make that decision.'' She was born and had grown up under that principle, she added. She wanted to make hospital staff understand that she was not happy to have a transfusion, she felt "abused and dirtied''.

Asked what she found "offensive'' about the transfusion, she said it was because she was made to transgress something at the "bottom of her beliefs'' and because the doctors were not 100pc sure the blood was good for the person.She still cannot forget the blood is in her, she said. "It really hurts.''

She had become a Jehovah's Witness in 1995 and her father, who had converted from Catholicism, was an elder in the Jehovah Witness faith.

Ms K was giving evidence on the 28th day of the action by the hospital arising from it securing a court order on September 21 2006 allowing it to administer a transfusion to her.

The hospital sought the order after Ms K lost 80pc of her blood following a difficult birth and has told the court staff were not informed she was a Jehovah's Witness until after the emergency arose.

The hospital contends Ms K's constitutional rights to freedom of conscience and the free practice of religion did not allow her to decline appropriate medical treatment.

She denies the claims and, in a counter-claim, contends the transfusion was a breach of her rights and constituted assault and trespass on her person.

The case continues.

I think the doctors were entirely right to give her blood against her will. Her right to life supersedes her right to freedom of religion.

But also, I think anyone who brings up a child to believe that God is ordering them to refuse blood transfusions is guilty of attempted murder. I don't agree with indoctrinating children into any religion but particularly when, as in this case, it leads to them refusing life-saving treatment.
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« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2007, 06:34:40 AM »

Her right to life supersedes her right to freedom of religion.

She chose to use her right to freedom of religion. She did not wish to use her right to life. At that point, it is no longer a 'right' to live, but more of a mandate. Just because you have a right, does not mean you are forced to exercise it. If you are equating the right to life with the right to freedom of religion, than isn't this scenario roughly equal to forcing an atheist to choose a religion, simply because they have freedom of religion? One can have the right to life and still choose death.

Simply put, if someone does not choose to exercise a right, whether the reason for it be religion or anything else, the decision to force that "right" upon them is immoral and it makes that "right" more of a legal imperative, IMO.
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Totino
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« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2007, 10:59:47 AM »

It's wrong for them to force that upon her. She has the RIGHT to refuse their services....

And just incase you didn't know, this is coming from someone with a lack of belief in a diety Wink.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2007, 11:08:16 AM by Totino » Logged



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« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2007, 02:56:07 PM »

Her right to life supersedes her right to freedom of religion.

She chose to use her right to freedom of religion. She did not wish to use her right to life. At that point, it is no longer a 'right' to live, but more of a mandate. Just because you have a right, does not mean you are forced to exercise it. If you are equating the right to life with the right to freedom of religion, than isn't this scenario roughly equal to forcing an atheist to choose a religion, simply because they have freedom of religion? One can have the right to life and still choose death.

Simply put, if someone does not choose to exercise a right, whether the reason for it be religion or anything else, the decision to force that "right" upon them is immoral and it makes that "right" more of a legal imperative, IMO.

In general we do not allow people to commit suicide. I don't see why this is any different.

(I do agree with euthanasia in terminal cases but not in any other cases.)
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« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2007, 01:01:24 PM »

Wow, how did I miss this one?

IMO, she should recognize that the reason she can protest the transfusion is because it most likely saved her life.

But it really highlights the insanity religion asks you to believe.

So what if she had a transfusion. If God is really against it (and I'd like to understand how that was interpreted from the Bible! It must be in a strange section that deals with Modern Medical practices: transfusions, artificial insemination, stem cell research, cloning, gene therapy...  obviously a book unknown to most Xians!).


Anyhow, as I was saying, if God is really against it, I'm sure he realizes that the doctors did it to her and she didn't ask for it.  Or, is her God that petty and evil that he would make someone suffer for someone elses sin....


Ahhhh.....  Now I understand.....  Undecided
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« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2007, 05:30:01 PM »

Blood transfusions are not without inherent risks up to and including organ failure and death.  Taking away someones RIGHT to refuse a treatment that may kill you sounds like the kind of things you hear about from people who know nothing about the practice.

Good thing you don't work in medicine.
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« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2007, 05:41:17 PM »

Blood transfusions are not without inherent risks up to and including organ failure and death.  Taking away someones RIGHT to refuse a treatment that may kill you sounds like the kind of things you hear about from people who know nothing about the practice.

Good thing you don't work in medicine.

To be honest, I don't think that is the crux of her complaint. However, the point is well taken.

(And I suppose if I DID work in medicine I would know the particulars...) Wink
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« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2007, 10:28:51 PM »

Blood transfusions are not without inherent risks up to and including organ failure and death.  Taking away someones RIGHT to refuse a treatment that may kill you sounds like the kind of things you hear about from people who know nothing about the practice.

Good thing you don't work in medicine.

Frankly, if the choice is between death (without transfusions) and a slight chance of death (with) the choice is blindingly obvious.

Rightly or wrongly, we do not allow people the right to die when there is a good chance of saving them.
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« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2007, 07:13:47 AM »

Rightly or wrongly, we do not allow people the right to die when there is a good chance of saving them.

I would refer you to "Informed Consent"

You must have consent in order to touch a patient or initiate treatment......the way you speak invites a lawsuit.

As far as having lifesaving treatment witheld....I believe there are many cases that can be referred to.
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« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2007, 12:51:34 PM »

I suppose you are right, Pat, they should have let her die. Then she wouldn't be griping about the awful burden of living.
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