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Author Topic: Ukranian polls  (Read 468 times)
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« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2007, 05:32:11 PM »

i was educated in pretty much same system that u were; though i earned Master's in Canada, my views had been formed before i came here.
I guess you were part of Soviet educational system (as a student) and all your views, values and enmities were formed inside of this system. As for me I graduated both school and uni when Soviet Union  ceased to exist as entity. Huge difference.
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Foreign policy, however criminal, does not define domestic polity. US is not a dictatorship; it is a duopolar competitive olygarchy. Things are done in US not but coercion but by manipulation through the appeal to the "values". It is a rotten system; but it affords free political competition and independent judiciary. Western Europe is more advanced in terms of popular influence on decision-making. Don't like American system, - look at Switzerland.
If it affords political competions why only two parties? No three? What are the chances to create a political party in US from grasroots movement?
How a political system which is suppressing indingenous population cannot be a dicatorship? Anything different in Canada?
I am not talking here about their "the most obsolete in the world" election system.


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2000 6%
2001 9%
2002 4,6%
2003 4,1%
2004 9,4%

And in 2005-7 it was around 6% annual. In 2006 Ukr GDP Real Growth was 7.1%. Which is very much like in the pre-Orange years, overall. So what u're saying?
Just what it is. Ukraine is something 68% of Ukranian SSR economy-wise. (Official statistics from their gvt stat site)

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I don't quite understand what specifically great about Yusch.

nothing. He sucks. Most of his supporters are long disenchanted. Few people like him personally. But.. he doesn't pick the phone receiver and call his Interior Minister and say "this fukking journalist..he digs me..take him to the forrest and leave there without the pants..." That's what Kuchma said about Gongadze. Appreciate the difference? People dislike Yusch specifically because he failed to do what had to be done, - put Kuchma behind bars. And GDP?  +7.1% annual isn't that bad, I guess.
Have you verified the metal prices recently?
And surely the first thing Yush did  he found Gongadze murders. Ahem. He found also his dioxin poisoners.
Can't forget the "democratic" expression on the face of that suspect behind bars, a Ukro businessman of Russian origine, telling: "somebody wants to kill me". He was shot the moment he left the court, in handcuffs. By sniper.
So there is nothing origional about Yush, except his "Western orientation".
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Peisithanatos
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« Reply #16 on: December 24, 2007, 11:58:25 PM »

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I graduated both school and uni when Soviet Union  ceased to exist as entity. 

me too. Post-Soviet education in Russia and Ukraine are still pretty much same; we have different national narratives, but the basic values and organization is same.

[quotewhy only two parties? No three?][/quote]

dozens of parties, but only two are real players. Biggest third ones are Green (named after u) and Libertarian. Electoral system, "winner-takes-all", or single mandate constituencies, warrants a two-party traffic. In Britain, Canada, Australia same system, but much stronger third parties; but British Lib-Dems never make government, even partake in it.

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"the most obsolete in the world" election system.

it's a paleolithic system (the electoral college electing the Pres; reflective of the confederation reality of the 1770s); but there is no "adminresurs", not in same proportions as inRussia. If u're trying to make a comparison between American and Russian political competition, there is none. No comparison. Not under Putin.

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Ukraine is something 68% of Ukranian SSR economy-wise.

the SSR economy was unsustainable, if inflated. 68% of a deadman.

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So there is nothing origional about Yush, except his "Western orientation".

u don't believe what u're saying. Yusch=Kuchma. I understand u've been watching a lot of Misha Leontiev and can't forgive the Oranges for being unpatriotic Russians; but "nothing original about Yusch" is really too much. That's like saying "West Germany was a capitalist country based on exploitation of the workers, so it was basically same as Nazis." Pardon my referral to the irrelevant reality, but Kuchma ordered abduction (and probably murder) of a journalist; Kuchma falsified elections like cracking peanuts, Kuchma used coercion to force people's votes, Kuchma bugged every office and every phone line. It was notorious, I remember a pro-Kuchma speaker of the parl saying his office was bugged by secret service. Now u have nothing better than to point to the Russian origins of a suspect, implying he was framed because of his Russian origins...Dude, stop wathcing Leontiev; u know how many people of Russian origin in Ukraine and in the government. Dig Timoshenko's origins, u'll find something. That's a known one: in Ukraine, origins are nothing, especially Russian origins, because it's totally impossible to distinguish Russian from Ukrainian otherwise than by culture. Not even language is an indicator, because half of ethnic Ukrs speak Russian as the native. Origins are nothing; political orientations matters.

And BTW, another fact: Kuchma sent Ukrainian troops to Iraq, Yusch withdrew them.
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a big pile of bs covered with a thick layer of sugar
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