Hey guys havent posted in a while, and i guess my profile timed out or was deleted in the switch.

With the the whole Huckabee outrage, putting what apears to be a cross in his Christmas comercial (big deal right?).

Anyway it made alot of people mad because of the whole "separation of church and state". However im confused as to where that rule is written. It's not in the constitution or the bill of rights, as the first amendment reads something like; "the government cannot make any law respecting religion". (although it has clearly done the opposite). I remember something about the idea being created by one of the supreme court rulings. In which case the supreme court made a very unique interpretation of the constitution.

I know from experiance there are lots of librals and atheists on this forum. So where/when was the idea of separation of church and state created and under what pretences?

Whatever helps the candidate to get votes should be acceptable provided that it is not offensive. Here in Australia most of the politicians know that it is not viable for them to play the religious card so they play the race card. Our former P.M John Howard (it feels good to finally say former) played the 'race' card in the previous three elections and he one two of the last three. However, he seemed to overplay his hand in the most recent election, obviously to his deteriment.

I don't believe the issue is whether Huckabee can use religious allusions in his campaign. That's entirely up to him.
The point I make is that I don't want a fundamentalist in the White House. I don't like religious fundamentalism and I don't think it's a healthy position from which to lead any nation politically. If he is true to his fundamental religion as he has indicated he is (lots of examples in another thread), then his policies will reflect that fundamentalist point of view and I find those policies horrible.

As for where the doctrine of the separation of church and state originated, Wikipedia says: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state_in_the_United_States

I believe this is a fair description of its origin.

Huckabee's campaign has mostly been discussed in a thread called "Huckabee's Success Antagonizing Some Conservatives." (my emphasis)

I'm a moderate from the bluest state (Mass.) -- Catholic, social liberal, but fiscal conservative (yes, I voted for Romney as governor) -- and I found the Huckabee ad somewhat offensive.  The reason I reacted to it the way I did is that it is a blatantly political ad in Merry Christmas/Christian drag.  The ad purports to just be a holiday greeting, nay, a Christmas greeting, from Huckabee to the people of Iowa but its sole purpose is to remind people which of the candidates out there has Jesus' back.  The involvement of Jesus' name in a blatantly political move makes me sit up and say, "this has just gone too far."

With respect to the wall between church and state, whoever cited the origin as being in the letter from Jefferson is right.  It is not found in the Constitution, but the SCT has held certain acts of government officials as breaching the Establishment Clause (government shall not establish a religion).

It's perfectly within Huckabee's right to use crosses in his ads or dance with snakes or even claim that the Baby Jesus would vote for him if he could, but it's also within my right to be offended and vow to not put another Fundy in the White House.

I just have a problem with someone who is ALWAYS talking about it.

"Hey, did you know I'm a Christian? Yeah, like, really, really Christian".

If he thinks it matters a lot when it comes to his campaign, then I would have to agree with him.

WWJD?

My guess is he wouldn't appreciate being used like political capital... but what do I know? I'm an immoral atheist.

What does being any kind of religionist have to do with being good at running a country?

The sad thing is that there are still religious people who fall for this pandering.

Might I remind them that most Presidents have been Xian and they often disagree with about half of them. There are liberal Xians, conservatives, and a whole host of other wacky kinds.


Seperation of C&S is a good idea for the State and the Religion - it preserves both and we effectively have it. (Notice the failure of the church to invade our schools and affect other legislation a la Iran, the Vatican, etc.).


That said, some of the most atheistic countries have a State Religion. It is thought that if the State announces an official religion, people approach it with the same skepticism and distrust as most things declared by a bureuocracy.  It may be a good thing to have a State religion - and watch people leave the Faith in droves.