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daedalus 2.0
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« on: September 17, 2007, 03:44:02 AM » |
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Are we in a Matrix? Are we just a Thought in God's Mind? Are we a Brain in a Vat, kept alive by a Mad Scientist? Are we in the universe, but decieved by a demon? Are we in a Universe of matter, forces, time and the interaction of those things?
How do we find out?
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\\\\"SUCK IT, JESUS!\\\\" Kathy Griffin \"Hitler burns Anne Frank for a day, and it\'s Evil. God burns Anne Frank for eternity, and it\'s Just.\"Anon
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Mugabes my hero
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« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2007, 04:32:35 AM » |
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Yeh it is a branch of philosophical questions that is worded so well that it is very hard to disprove. My favourite would be the one that postulates that my green is your blue but nevertheless just because we can't disprove something doesn't make it at all valid. For all we know we could be in some obscure computer game but just because we can't disprove this statement doesn't make it plausible.
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\"Moral clarity is frequently clouded by an unrelenting stream of micro-information from various sources on nearly every subject known to mankind.\" -Ray Gattavara
\"All religions begin with a revolt against morality, and perish when morality conquers them.\" -George Bernard Shaw
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Philosofear
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« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2007, 04:12:49 PM » |
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Q: Are we in the matrix? A: No evidence to support it, so no.
Q: Are we just a thought in God's mind? A: Perhaps, but again no supportive evidence and if so, we still exist in thought because we can think (I think therefore I am.)
Q: Are we a brain in a vat, kept alive by a mad scinetist? A: Same exact response as before
Q: Are we in the universe, but decieved by a demon? A: Same exact response as before
Q: Are we in a Universe of matter, forces, time and the interaction of those things? A: Hmm... How do I answer this without writing a book? I will just say this... No. A)Thoughts precede actions B)Free will is incompatible with determinism C)Qualia are evidence of the physical but are in an of themselves universal D)Self-causation doesn't exist in a physicalist universe. That is brief but I think I covered everything maybe missed a point or two.
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Abraxas
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"You do not speak for the rest"
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« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2007, 04:57:08 PM » |
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We are in a universe of explainable equations, which are directed and controled by energy, matter and enlightned self intrest (choice). Simply because we can't explain something doesn't mean it will remain that way for long.
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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like its from Neptune. - Noam Chomsky
... you can almost see the high water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back. - Hunter S. Thompson
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Rachel
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« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2007, 06:09:16 PM » |
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Such a irresistible question. I vote for in a Universe and deceived by a demon.
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Gojira
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« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2007, 06:49:57 PM » |
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I bet you if we found out the answer to your question the universe would implode and everything will end. True story.  Better not to know. 
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Our democracy has created an environment of indecision at times of impending crisis.
If life is easy for you, then you aint livin.
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IamMe
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« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2007, 11:05:53 AM » |
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Are we in a Matrix? Are we just a Thought in God's Mind? Are we a Brain in a Vat, kept alive by a Mad Scientist? Are we in the universe, but decieved by a demon? Are we in a Universe of matter, forces, time and the interaction of those things?
How do we find out?
All of those could be true. However, all but the last one require there to be something else apart from what we percieve - a second meta-universe. So using Ockham's Razor we pick the last one.
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\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell
If you strike me down I shall become more dead than you can ever imagine.
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Major Zee Lee
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« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2007, 01:41:26 AM » |
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The only thesis that can be put to a test is the last one. All other are gratuitous as wether they were true or wrong, we wouldn't be able to tell.
The only universe that can shape our thinking without being shped by our thinking, is a matherialistic universe where no amount of thought will avoid, alter or deceive about the crushing of your body after 30 meters of free fall...
Waht cna't be shapoed buy our mind rather forces us to shape pour mind to ti, tha'ts what we call reality.
Of course, reality could not be real and be a thought of God, but then, why worry about what has no solution, has not evidence, and can be false if we just think it's worng? I think it's wrong and so we're not a thought of God. I *challenge* God to prove me wrong if it can in the way gravity can prove wrong my opinion that I can fly like birds do.
Natural laws are not that easy to bypass with an act of will, if you know what I mean...
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Do not take life too seriously; nobody lives to tell.
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Rachel
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« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2007, 03:59:43 AM » |
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I *challenge* God to prove me wrong if it can in the way gravity can prove wrong my opinion that I can fly like birds do.
Natural laws are not that easy to bypass with an act of will, if you know what I mean...
What most people don't realize is that according to the scriptures, GOD washed His hands of the human race. But only for a said period of time. Then, the scriptures go on to speak of His return. This concept is found throughout many, many religions. (Christians call it the 'Second Coming', while others use their own terminology). So...we may not get the answers we want until GOD is ready to give them. In that respect, your challenge might go unanswered for a very long time.
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Major Zee Lee
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« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2007, 04:55:38 AM » |
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I *challenge* God to prove me wrong if it can in the way gravity can prove wrong my opinion that I can fly like birds do.
Natural laws are not that easy to bypass with an act of will, if you know what I mean...
What most people don't realize is that according to the scriptures, GOD washed His hands of the human race. But only for a said period of time. Then, the scriptures go on to speak of His return. This concept is found throughout many, many religions. (Christians call it the 'Second Coming', while others use their own terminology). So...we may not get the answers we want until GOD is ready to give them. In that respect, your challenge might go unanswered for a very long time. Which emphasizes the value of my stance; it's better a "probably" now than a "will see" upon sometime... or never... All in all, a "second come" is just an attempt to divert atention from a crucial point; that faith in God implies an arrational belief, that is, that there is no way to REASON it. Honest believers will agree that there is no reason but faith. And then peopel who believe in reason may agree that mankind is not just rational, but irrational too, and can'tg et rid fo such duality. If then the believers agree that they can't shape reality to fit their faith and respect that toher people may nto share their faith as consequence fo a different perception of reality, then we *may* have a chance to stop bashign each other's cosmovisions in the name of either Reason or God. We're all monkeys. Lonely, scary, troubled monkeys, in a variety of genders, colors, sizes, cultures and mindsets. We all llok at the Universe and try ot figure whethe'rs there's something to figure, make Big Questions and never agree on almost nothing... we are Human. 
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Do not take life too seriously; nobody lives to tell.
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Rachel
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« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2007, 11:19:52 AM » |
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We're all monkeys. Lonely, scary, troubled monkeys, in a variety of genders, colors, sizes, cultures and mindsets. We all llok at the Universe and try ot figure whethe'rs there's something to figure, make Big Questions and never agree on almost nothing... we are Human.  Monkeys?? No..I believe man is much more beautiful than any animal. But I agree, we do have animalistic tendencies. (Some people more than others). Yet why concentrate on only the negative things about the human race? What about all of our wonderful accomplishments? Nothing can compete with the great heart of man when he works towards his nobility. The problem is, too many people have resigned themselves to fit into this current world. Anger, cruelty, hate, etc. If only those worked at practicing kindness, oh how far we could go. I will never give up this hope.
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IamMe
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« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2007, 11:28:20 AM » |
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Monkeys?? No..I believe man is much more beautiful than any animal. But I agree, we do have animalistic tendencies. (Some people more than others). Yet why concentrate on only the negative things about the human race? What about all of our wonderful accomplishments? Nothing can compete with the great heart of man when he works towards his nobility. The problem is, too many people have resigned themselves to fit into this current world. Anger, cruelty, hate, etc. If only those worked at practicing kindness, oh how far we could go. I will never give up this hope.
Humans are animals. There is no getting away from that fact. Doesn't mean we have to act like monkeys though.
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\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell
If you strike me down I shall become more dead than you can ever imagine.
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Rachel
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« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2007, 11:48:10 AM » |
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IamMe - why do you say we're animals? Is it because you believe in evolution? I don't believe men are animals. I beleive people 'act' like animals if they live without a conscience. It's our conscience that separates us from the beasts and our enduring quality to always ask - 'why?' Animals aren't interested in the answers about the universe. Their only interest is in pleasure. And yes, I know there are people who live their entire lives searching for pleasure. But I also know there are those who seek something much greater. I do not consider myself an animal.
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IamMe
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« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2007, 12:00:56 PM » |
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IamMe - why do you say we're animals? Is it because you believe in evolution? I don't believe men are animals. I beleive people 'act' like animals if they live without a conscience. It's our conscience that separates us from the beasts and our enduring quality to always ask - 'why?' Animals aren't interested in the answers about the universe. Their only interest is in pleasure. And yes, I know there are people who live their entire lives searching for pleasure. But I also know there are those who seek something much greater. I do not consider myself an animal.
animal noun 1 a zool any member of the kingdom of organisms that are capable of voluntary movement, have specialized sense organs that allow rapid response to stimuli, and lack chlorophyll and cell walls; That's us. That's the scientific definition of animal (kind of - the real definition is any member of the order animalia). Then there's the 'folk' definition of animal which is 'all the animals except humans'. If you like we are the greatest of the animals (though I guess we're biased.) We are the only animal capable of conscience, reason, love etc. But we're still animals.
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\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell
If you strike me down I shall become more dead than you can ever imagine.
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Rachel
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« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2007, 12:23:39 PM » |
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Okay, I understand now what you mean. However,I believe that when 'man' attains his greatest level. He - much like GOD Himself - defies all description.
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