|
IamMe
|
 |
« Reply #45 on: October 04, 2007, 01:35:42 PM » |
|
Rachel, a species is simply a group of animals capable of interbreeding. As for the fact that some humans are just cunts, well that's just variation within species. Humans have an innate morality but it is present in some moreso than others. It seems to disappear from most when your survival is at risk - entirely consistent with a morality that evolved to help us survive.
IamMe..there shines your brillance once again. You have a great mind and steel trap logic. Except you keep forgetting one thing. Doesn't everyone experience life in their own way? What I mean is..I haven't lived your life nor you mine. So..we have a difference of opinion (don't we?) when it comes to our perceptions about the human race. You see..I've met and worked with selfless, wonderful men and women in my short life. (I volunteer at hospitals and nursing homes and the food bank). I've met and spoke to people that not only survived the tidal wave in Thailand..but risked their own lives in order to help others survive. No one makes these kinds of people do this. It doesn't depend on some morality issue designed to help us survive. These people - though few - I admit- are the highest formed members of our race. They show love IamMe...just simple plain..love. Love towards one another and those in need. There's no gain involved IamMe. Don't you see what I am trying to say? For all the darkness there is in this world..there are many precious beacons of light. The thing is.. goodness isn't marketable..so they hardly ever get noticed. Thank you Rachel. Just so I'm clear, do you accept evolution? I still think all the things you've described can be accounted for bu evolution. After the survival of the individual the survival of close relatives and the of the species as a whole are important (because they are likely to share a lot of genes). Selfless acts of altruism (i.e. ones where your life is at risk) are because of a 'misfiring' (and I don't mean that in any positive way) of our moral instinct and probably also partly to do with experiences during life. I too think these people are wonderful but knowing the reasons behind it doesn't make them less so. !!  You're going to have fun with me on this one. Yes and no. I believe a superior being (GOD or whatever name people call GOD) created everything into existence. How GOD did this..well..maybe (I've got to say 'HE' IamMe or else I am going to have trouble speaking). HE sparked life through some method similiar to - or like - evolution. Umm..so yes I believe in evolution - but- not strictly as an evolutionist. Am I making any sense? Because right now I feel a little out of my league. The best way I can explain it is I believe in both. I understand what you mean. What you believe is called theistic evolution or guided evolution. I think certainly it's a better option then just shutting your eyes and pretending science isn't there. I wish I could show you all the amazing things I've been learning through my studies of archeaology and ancient cultures. How every culture that ever existed ties in with the creation belief. And how much physical evidence there is left behind attributed to the evidence of God(s). As intelligent as you are..I am certain you know something about this. You mean that every culture has a creation myth? I think this has more to do with some need in human psychology than it does to do with the trueness of the myths. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell
If you strike me down I shall become more dead than you can ever imagine.
|
|
|
Rachel
Jr. Member
Karma: +3/-2
Posts: 75
|
|
« Reply #46 on: October 04, 2007, 05:03:23 PM » |
|
No IamMe..there's evidence out there beyond just the myth stories we've all heard about. All I can tell you is it's absolutely fascinating!! Or at least to me it is.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Callum
|
|
« Reply #47 on: October 05, 2007, 01:33:10 AM » |
|
[As for Beethoven's 9th, a slice of pizza, a sunrise, your mother's love: they all exist outside of you, but only come your way via the smallest of wires: your perception. Everything of the world outside us is constructed of our individual perceptional prisms and conceptual schemes, as far as we're concerned. We wouldn't know it any other way.
Interesting and quite neat, as far as it goes. But note that you are (naturally) using first, second and third person pronouns. What you are omitting from your summary is the intersubjective. There is a world that is composed of the 'pooled' constructions of all us individuals. How that works, both with us-as-individuals, with the world as a separate entity, and with us as a mereological classification... that might just be the place to start answering some of the questions that are stupefying us-as-individuals. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
allpoints
Full Member
Karma: +24/-2
Posts: 214
I don't care if it rains or freezes...
|
|
« Reply #48 on: October 05, 2007, 05:37:09 PM » |
|
[As for Beethoven's 9th, a slice of pizza, a sunrise, your mother's love: they all exist outside of you, but only come your way via the smallest of wires: your perception. Everything of the world outside us is constructed of our individual perceptional prisms and conceptual schemes, as far as we're concerned. We wouldn't know it any other way.
Interesting and quite neat, as far as it goes. But note that you are (naturally) using first, second and third person pronouns. What you are omitting from your summary is the intersubjective. There is a world that is composed of the 'pooled' constructions of all us individuals, as well as the . How that works, both with us-as-individuals, with the world as a separate entity, and with us as a mereological classification... that might just be the place to start answering some of the questions that are stupefying us-as-individuals. [Architect] The Matrix is the metaphor for that "pooled construction" ontology that includes the movie itself in the simulacrum. A harsh view perhaps, but not without it's truths and ironies... [/Architect] Your great point reminds me that some others have made some good points about the vast unconscious genetic heritage which feed our perspectives of the world outside our pod, and I'm ransacking the boxed books for my "Essential Jung" for just the right points... |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: October 05, 2007, 05:58:14 PM by allpoints »
|
Logged
|
slide
|
|
|
|
IamMe
|
|
« Reply #49 on: October 06, 2007, 11:30:12 AM » |
|
No IamMe..there's evidence out there beyond just the myth stories we've all heard about. All I can tell you is it's absolutely fascinating!! Or at least to me it is.
Would you like to elaborate? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell
If you strike me down I shall become more dead than you can ever imagine.
|
|
|
|
daedalus 2.0
|
|
« Reply #50 on: October 06, 2007, 12:50:24 PM » |
|
No IamMe..there's evidence out there beyond just the myth stories we've all heard about. All I can tell you is it's absolutely fascinating!! Or at least to me it is.
Would you like to elaborate? Yes, I would like to hear about ANY evidence outside of mythical stories. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
\\\\"SUCK IT, JESUS!\\\\" Kathy Griffin
\"Hitler burns Anne Frank for a day, and it\'s Evil.
God burns Anne Frank for eternity, and it\'s Just.\"Anon
|
|
|
|
Callum
|
|
« Reply #51 on: October 07, 2007, 01:39:14 AM » |
|
[As for Beethoven's 9th, a slice of pizza, a sunrise, your mother's love: they all exist outside of you, but only come your way via the smallest of wires: your perception. Everything of the world outside us is constructed of our individual perceptional prisms and conceptual schemes, as far as we're concerned. We wouldn't know it any other way.
Interesting and quite neat, as far as it goes. But note that you are (naturally) using first, second and third person pronouns. What you are omitting from your summary is the intersubjective. There is a world that is composed of the 'pooled' constructions of all us individuals, as well as the . How that works, both with us-as-individuals, with the world as a separate entity, and with us as a mereological classification... that might just be the place to start answering some of the questions that are stupefying us-as-individuals. [Architect] The Matrix is the metaphor for that "pooled construction" ontology that includes the movie itself in the simulacrum. A harsh view perhaps, but not without it's truths and ironies... [/Architect] Your great point reminds me that some others have made some good points about the vast unconscious genetic heritage which feed our perspectives of the world outside our pod, and I'm ransacking the boxed books for my "Essential Jung" for just the right points... 1. Your architect is of course the mouthpiece for all sorts of philosophical sceptics - evil demons and mad scientists. The sceptical argument against belief in the outside world is howver flawed. It relies on the principle that uncertainty about a premise transmits to premises entailed by that premise. But all logic - including the last sentence - relies on the fixity of logic rules. Yet you cannot be sure that the evil demon/scientist/architect is NOT messing with your powers of intellection. The sceptical argument stops short at messing with perceptions - there is no reason to accept this as the boundary of uncertainty. I think that all we can do is take a coherentist approach and say that our beliefs hang together and display some logical consistency - because if we fall prey to the sceptical argument then we can't do or know anything. 2. I think I mean something different to, or at least richer than, Jungian geist. Current research points to probablities that we inherit ways of thinking about different classes of things (our systems of logic). We also probably inherit the form in which we externalise these thoughts in language or other communication (the syntax of our languages). We certainly acquire concepts from our parents and peers (some of the contents of our thoughts). We all perceive the world in ways that are inherited from our common gene-pool (more contents of our thoughts). All this is part of what I would call intersubjectivity. And we put it to good (and bad!) use: science is a communal activity, as is law and politics etc. But thats getting a little way away from the topic. 3. As an aside, I too am fascinated to find out 'the evidence beyond just the myths'. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
