|
IamMe
|
 |
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2008, 03:03:05 PM » |
|
Sorry, are you against public education? Do you think education should only go to those who can pay for it?
If not then the problem is with the system not the concept.
Yes, and the quality of public services are significantly improved by increases in funding. If senseless tax cuts stopped being granted, public education could become far more efficient, and universal health care would be realized as a feasible solution to the country's health problems. I'm not to familiar with the US system. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Patton
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Karma: +88/-94
Posts: 1,253
"Battle is an orgy of disorder"
|
|
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2008, 05:03:29 AM » |
|
All you need to know is money is not the solution.....it is the "fat cow" of government that screws it up.
...the United States is tied for first place with Switzerland when it comes to annual spending per student on its public schools, with each of those two countries spending more than $11,000 (in U.S. currency).
Any one with half a brain cell knows what kind of education you get for $11K/year in the private school.....I pay a little over a third of that per child and both kids are well above the national averages on nationalized testing.
Sure.....lets get the "fat cow" involved in healthcare the same way and see what results we get.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
I do not measure a mans success by how high he climbs but how high he bounces when he hits bottom.
-G.S. Patton, Jr.
|
|
|
|
IamMe
|
|
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2008, 01:46:19 PM » |
|
All you need to know is money is not the solution.....it is the "fat cow" of government that screws it up.
...the United States is tied for first place with Switzerland when it comes to annual spending per student on its public schools, with each of those two countries spending more than $11,000 (in U.S. currency).
Any one with half a brain cell knows what kind of education you get for $11K/year in the private school.....I pay a little over a third of that per child and both kids are well above the national averages on nationalized testing.
Sure.....lets get the "fat cow" involved in healthcare the same way and see what results we get.
Your kids are probably above average intelligence, your kid's success is statistically insignificant. You didn't answer my question: should everyone be entitled to education or not? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Patton
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Karma: +88/-94
Posts: 1,253
"Battle is an orgy of disorder"
|
|
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2008, 02:05:43 PM » |
|
Pretty bold statement from someone who knows nothing of my children.
"Entitled" is the wrong word....it is a LEGAL requirement.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
I do not measure a mans success by how high he climbs but how high he bounces when he hits bottom.
-G.S. Patton, Jr.
|
|
|
|
micfranklin
|
|
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2008, 07:14:01 AM » |
|
Everyone has a right to life. Maybe everyone should just file for insurance.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
IamMe
|
|
« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2008, 12:26:59 PM » |
|
Pretty bold statement from someone who knows nothing of my children.
It was intended as a compliment. "Entitled" is the wrong word....it is a LEGAL requirement.
It is also an entitlement. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
IamMe
|
|
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2008, 12:32:35 PM » |
|
Everyone has a right to life. Maybe everyone should just file for insurance.
That is a rather ridiculous statement akin to saying "Why can't everyone just make more money?" Everyone cannot "just file for insurance" because not everyone can afford insurance. Also, everyone will not be able to afford the same standard of insurance, meaning that rich people get better healthcare than poor people, which is wrong. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Patton
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Karma: +88/-94
Posts: 1,253
"Battle is an orgy of disorder"
|
|
« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2008, 07:10:52 AM » |
|
You didn't answer my question: should everyone be entitled to education or not?
Everyone in America.....yes.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
I do not measure a mans success by how high he climbs but how high he bounces when he hits bottom.
-G.S. Patton, Jr.
|
|
|
|
IamMe
|
|
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2008, 03:29:02 PM » |
|
You didn't answer my question: should everyone be entitled to education or not?
Everyone in America.....yes.
Then you accept in principle that people are entitled to certain things regardless of their ability to pay. Now, if you accept this for education then why not for healthcare? Healthcare pertains to a much more fundamental right than education does (right to life vs right to education). |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Leo
Full Member
Karma: +10/-3
Posts: 105
|
|
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2008, 07:18:20 PM » |
|
You didn't answer my question: should everyone be entitled to education or not?
Everyone in America.....yes.
Ummm ... why just everyone in America? Why not everyone in the world? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Big Bear
Full Member
Karma: +10/-10
Posts: 126
Gotta love airpower!
|
|
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2008, 09:54:52 PM » |
|
In America, we are not entitled to health care or education.
We are entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That's what the constitution says.
Public education is a legal requirement and a very good thing. We've all benefited from public education whether directly or indirectly.
Universal health care is not a good thing. It reduces health care to the same level of care, compassion and efficiency as your local DMV, roads and grounds department or, the IRS.
Having said that, I do believe that any working American should be allowed to assign his health care benefits to any person he chooses. For example, if you are employed and have health insurance and, you are willing to pay the with dependents rate, you should be allowed to assign those benefits to a friend of yours who happens to be pregnant. I am not speaking about domestic partners or if she is carrying your child.
Health benefits are paid compensation in lieu of salary. Its your money and you should be allowed to spend it as you see fit.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
\"You have a right brain to feel your way into trouble and a left brain to think your way out.\"
|
|
|
|
IamMe
|
|
« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2008, 12:29:02 PM » |
|
In America, we are not entitled to health care or education.
We are entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That's what the constitution says.
Public education is a legal requirement and a very good thing. We've all benefited from public education whether directly or indirectly.
Universal health care is not a good thing. It reduces health care to the same level of care, compassion and efficiency as your local DMV, roads and grounds department or, the IRS.
Having said that, I do believe that any working American should be allowed to assign his health care benefits to any person he chooses. For example, if you are employed and have health insurance and, you are willing to pay the with dependents rate, you should be allowed to assign those benefits to a friend of yours who happens to be pregnant. I am not speaking about domestic partners or if she is carrying your child.
Health benefits are paid compensation in lieu of salary. Its your money and you should be allowed to spend it as you see fit.
And what of those who cannot afford healthcare? Are they not also entitled to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness? How are they supposed to practice that right if they are ill and cannot afford healthcare? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
gommi
|
|
« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2008, 04:31:13 PM » |
|
And what of those who cannot afford healthcare? Are they not also entitled to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness? How are they supposed to practice that right if they are ill and cannot afford healthcare? According to a conservative, the 'pursuit of happiness' implies working for that which you desire or need, and assumes that everyone has the resources, ability, and economic advantages necessary to do so. Conservatives use this unrealistic ideal to ignore the socio/economic problems of society. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Big Bear
Full Member
Karma: +10/-10
Posts: 126
Gotta love airpower!
|
|
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2008, 07:29:38 PM » |
|
IamMe: Cannot afford healthcare? Let me share my experience, anecdotal though it may be:
My youngest son drives an M1 Abrams tank in the Army. Last time he was home on leave he needed some medical treatment. I took him to the ER, per instructions from his unit, and we found ourselves sitting in the ER for several hours. We met many people there, some unemployed, some were even illegal immigrants. All received attention.
My youngest daughter just bore her first child. She was uninsured. She paid cash for the doctor's visits. In the end, because she is a student and unemployed, Medicare paid for the delivery of my grandson. (Nice to be on the receiving end of a "social program" for once. Normally, I earn too much to benefit from the programs and earn too little to simply write a check for it. example: college education.)
My oldest daughter needed shots for a job she took several years ago. She did not have insurance at the time and had to go to the Public Health Service, where she received the shots and then went to work.
Now, my standard of healthcare is better than theirs. I have my own health insurance and I've also saved money to cover the incidentals. I do not drive new cars or take elaborate vacations, until my expenses are met. That being said, and living on both sides of the issue, I do not see a healthcare crisis. I do see a lot of irresponsible behavior.
Has your experience been otherwise?
gommi: Yes, I do believe in working for what I want. I could not afford college. I joined the Air Force. I earned my GI Bill, earned my degree, and now earn my salary. It was not handed to me, I had to WORK FOR IT! If you want to call that unrealistic, that is your prerogative. I call it making something of myself. I did not like my circumstances and chose to do something about them. May I suggest a movie for you to watch? Check out, "The Pursuit of Happiness."
What is unrealistic about working your way out of a problem?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
\"You have a right brain to feel your way into trouble and a left brain to think your way out.\"
|
|
|
|
IamMe
|
|
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2008, 03:32:11 PM » |
|
IamMe: Cannot afford healthcare? Let me share my experience, anecdotal though it may be:
My youngest son drives an M1 Abrams tank in the Army. Last time he was home on leave he needed some medical treatment. I took him to the ER, per instructions from his unit, and we found ourselves sitting in the ER for several hours. We met many people there, some unemployed, some were even illegal immigrants. All received attention.
My youngest daughter just bore her first child. She was uninsured. She paid cash for the doctor's visits. In the end, because she is a student and unemployed, Medicare paid for the delivery of my grandson. (Nice to be on the receiving end of a "social program" for once. Normally, I earn too much to benefit from the programs and earn too little to simply write a check for it. example: college education.)
My oldest daughter needed shots for a job she took several years ago. She did not have insurance at the time and had to go to the Public Health Service, where she received the shots and then went to work.
Now, my standard of healthcare is better than theirs. I have my own health insurance and I've also saved money to cover the incidentals. I do not drive new cars or take elaborate vacations, until my expenses are met. That being said, and living on both sides of the issue, I do not see a healthcare crisis. I do see a lot of irresponsible behavior.
Has your experience been otherwise?
I'm not from the US so my interest is purely principled. I don't think that you should be able to buy a better standard of healthcare than someone who cannot afford to pay what you can. Ultimately, healthcare is a life and death matter. Everyone has a right to life: it shouldn't depend on how much money you have. What is unrealistic about working your way out of a problem?
Because not everyone can. No matter how hard Jimmy Coalminer works he will never have as much as Paris Hilton has just for sitting around and occasionally flashing her vagina at people. Yet she can pay for top class healthcare despite contributing far less to society. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
