Terry Mathis
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Goulburn NSW Australia Dual Australian/U.S.
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« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2008, 01:29:01 PM » |
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Actually the Jews lost it when they refused Jesus. According to Islam all of the prophets are Muslims in that they submit to the one true God of the monotheists. Aster all muslim means the one who submits.
I thought the Jews lost it (the muslimhood) since they betrayed Mohamad (PBUH). But since they rejected one muslim prophet (Jesus), it makes sens. Except that you can reject Jesus and still believe in one God. So the definition of "muslim" is not the one who believe in one God, but the one who does so and also, among other things, believe in Jesus. Mow, Yilmaz, please tell us why christians are not muslims? Or are we? Soon to be moved to the religion forumActually Fred, Mohammad split from the Hebrew over something. In other words, he started as a Hebrew.  |
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Its not what they say that bothers me, its what they say that just aint so that does ! - Will Rogers So that we may end the oppression wrought by our own hands.
- Shulman |
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yilmaz101
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« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2008, 01:11:55 AM » |
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OK, Terry, Once again you are in way over your head. I want proof for this statement. Like I said before, please don't talk about stuff you don't know jack about and making a fool of yourself. Actually the Jews lost it when they refused Jesus. According to Islam all of the prophets are Muslims in that they submit to the one true God of the monotheists. Aster all muslim means the one who submits.
I thought the Jews lost it (the muslimhood) since they betrayed Mohamad (PBUH). But since they rejected one muslim prophet (Jesus), it makes sens. Except that you can reject Jesus and still believe in one God. So the definition of "muslim" is not the one who believe in one God, but the one who does so and also, among other things, believe in Jesus. Mow, Yilmaz, please tell us why christians are not muslims? Or are we? Soon to be moved to the religion forumActually Fred, Mohammad split from the Hebrew over something. In other words, he started as a Hebrew. |
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yilmaz101
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« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2008, 01:27:23 AM » |
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Fred, Islamic faith has six basic principles. 1. belief in a singular, omnipotent, omnipresent deity called Allah (the root is ilah which means god, or dity and is made into a name roughly equal to The God. 2. belief in messangers of that one God, such as Adam, Moses, Joseph, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Ishmail, Jesus, and the last of them Muhammad (PBUT). 3. Belief in the scriptures sent to humans through these prophets, like the Torah, Zabur, Bible and Quran. 4. Belief in the angels. 5. Belief in the day of resurrection and judgement. 6. Belief in divine preordainment where everything happens by the will and knowledge of God. According to Islam all the previous prophets were messengers of Allah and people who were their contemprories were obligated by the shariah (law, and religion) sent through them. For example any Jew who were alive when Jesus began preaching His message was obligated under what was revealed to Jesus. In renouncing Jesus the Jews lost it. The same is true for the Christians and Jews regarding Islam. The message from God, revealed through Muhammed and the Quran is binding for all of humanity and humans who lived after Islam was revealed will be judged according to Islam. So as far as Islam is concerned the Jews don't just loose it because of their rejection of Islam but through their rejection of the previous shariah of Jesus. Of course this does not mean that the Muslims are obligated to convert everyone to Islam. They are only obligated in passing on the message. Actually the Jews lost it when they refused Jesus. According to Islam all of the prophets are Muslims in that they submit to the one true God of the monotheists. Aster all muslim means the one who submits.
I thought the Jews lost it (the muslimhood) since they betrayed Mohamad (PBUH). But since they rejected one muslim prophet (Jesus), it makes sens. Except that you can reject Jesus and still believe in one God. So the definition of "muslim" is not the one who believe in one God, but the one who does so and also, among other things, believe in Jesus. Mow, Yilmaz, please tell us why christians are not muslims? Or are we? Soon to be moved to the religion forum |
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Terry Mathis
High Society
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Karma: +57/-92
Posts: 1,239
Goulburn NSW Australia Dual Australian/U.S.
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« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2008, 01:36:59 AM » |
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OK, Terry, Once again you are in way over your head. I want proof for this statement. Like I said before, please don't talk about stuff you don't know jack about and making a fool of yourself. Actually the Jews lost it when they refused Jesus. According to Islam all of the prophets are Muslims in that they submit to the one true God of the monotheists. Aster all muslim means the one who submits.
I thought the Jews lost it (the muslimhood) since they betrayed Mohamad (PBUH). But since they rejected one muslim prophet (Jesus), it makes sens. Except that you can reject Jesus and still believe in one God. So the definition of "muslim" is not the one who believe in one God, but the one who does so and also, among other things, believe in Jesus. Mow, Yilmaz, please tell us why christians are not muslims? Or are we? Soon to be moved to the religion forumActually Fred, Mohammad split from the Hebrew over something. In other words, he started as a Hebrew.
Welcome to P&R....read the "Civility" sticky at the top of the page....just because you cuss and throw spitballs at home does not mean you may do it at someone elses house..... |
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« Last Edit: February 21, 2008, 06:41:24 AM by Patton »
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Its not what they say that bothers me, its what they say that just aint so that does ! - Will Rogers So that we may end the oppression wrought by our own hands.
- Shulman |
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yilmaz101
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Posts: 248
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« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2008, 01:48:07 AM » |
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I want the link that supports your ignorant nonsense you jerk off. OK, Terry, Once again you are in way over your head. I want proof for this statement. Like I said before, please don't talk about stuff you don't know jack about and making a fool of yourself. Actually the Jews lost it when they refused Jesus. According to Islam all of the prophets are Muslims in that they submit to the one true God of the monotheists. Aster all muslim means the one who submits.
I thought the Jews lost it (the muslimhood) since they betrayed Mohamad (PBUH). But since they rejected one muslim prophet (Jesus), it makes sens. Except that you can reject Jesus and still believe in one God. So the definition of "muslim" is not the one who believe in one God, but the one who does so and also, among other things, believe in Jesus. Mow, Yilmaz, please tell us why christians are not muslims? Or are we? Soon to be moved to the religion forumActually Fred, Mohammad split from the Hebrew over something. In other words, he started as a Hebrew.  |
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« Last Edit: February 21, 2008, 06:44:54 AM by Patton »
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yilmaz101
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« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2008, 02:04:52 AM » |
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I suppose you also know Ishmail and Isaac too, and who the Hebrews and the Arabs are. Edited You think that some of the Persians are Arabs. EditedPreviously edited
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« Last Edit: February 21, 2008, 06:48:05 AM by Patton »
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Fredledingue
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« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2008, 09:19:06 AM » |
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Yilmaz
So, if I understand...
Before Jesus, jews were muslims and, even better, the only one who could claim to be muslim (everybody else were polytheist pagans).
In one sens that would mean that Israel belongs to muslims because jews who invaded this territory 3000 years ago were muslims, unlike the jews living today.
After Jesus, all the jews who followed him stayed muslim but not those who rejected him. But jews were not the only muslim of the world any more as many non-jews converted to Christianism aka Islam.
After Constantin, the Roman empire was muslim and after the fall of Rome, Europe, its catholic clergy and its aristocracy was all muslim until the Revelation of Mohamad.
After the Revelation of Mohamad (PBUH), Caroligians among others europeans stopped suddenly being muslim. The same fate applied to Nestorian muslim of Asia and Copts from Egypt.
Only those, christian or not, who converted to Islam after the arab invasions were muslims.
As a conclusion: When the next prophet shows up, all your turks and arabs who won't follow him will cease being muslim again. So be careful.
Well for some muslim sects, it has already happen.
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 Dr. Zoidberg is jewish (and an important AIPAC donator!)  |
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yilmaz101
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« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2008, 12:15:09 PM » |
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You miss one important point, and that is the definition of "Muslim". Muslim is anyone who submits to the will of Allah (or the God of all Abrahamic). In this sense being a Muslim depends on following the sharia (Arabic for law, used here to refer to religion) that is present at the time. The sharia of Moses, as it was revealed to Moses was binding until Jesus, and Jesus's sharia was binding until Mohammad. What was binding is not what you, or I, or someone else refers to as Judaism, Christianity or Islam, but what was revealed through the Prophets (PBUT). If one were to corrupt Islam, and claim to be a Muslim he would not be submitting to Allah, but rather he'd be submitting to what he himself has made up through corrupting Islam. Therefore all the true believers in God's message as it was revealed by Him through the prophets would be Muslims. But if what one believes is not the message as it was revealed by God through prophets but is it's corrupted form then he wouldn't be a Muslim. If the sharia given to Moses had not been corrupted then a new revelation through Jesus would not be necessary, and so on and so forth. Here is the catch though, according to what we believe Mohammad was the last prophet until the day of judhement...... Yilmaz
So, if I understand...
Before Jesus, jews were muslims and, even better, the only one who could claim to be muslim (everybody else were polytheist pagans).
In one sens that would mean that Israel belongs to muslims because jews who invaded this territory 3000 years ago were muslims, unlike the jews living today.
After Jesus, all the jews who followed him stayed muslim but not those who rejected him. But jews were not the only muslim of the world any more as many non-jews converted to Christianism aka Islam.
After Constantin, the Roman empire was muslim and after the fall of Rome, Europe, its catholic clergy and its aristocracy was all muslim until the Revelation of Mohamad.
After the Revelation of Mohamad (PBUH), Caroligians among others europeans stopped suddenly being muslim. The same fate applied to Nestorian muslim of Asia and Copts from Egypt.
Only those, christian or not, who converted to Islam after the arab invasions were muslims.
As a conclusion: When the next prophet shows up, all your turks and arabs who won't follow him will cease being muslim again. So be careful.
Well for some muslim sects, it has already happen.
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Fredledingue
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« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2008, 01:30:56 PM » |
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Thanks Yilmaz, I understand better now.
After some concept of christianism existed before Christ and some christians went astray of christianism througout the ages (Those ones you would say corrupted the message).
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« Last Edit: February 23, 2008, 01:33:06 PM by Fredledingue »
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Dr. Zoidberg is jewish (and an important AIPAC donator!) |
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