|
micfranklin
|
 |
« Reply #45 on: January 09, 2008, 01:05:47 PM » |
|
He sure as heck did, there's not a candidate out there that isn't talking up the "c" word. Obama is a wealthy businessman, not a member of the working class, and is just as much a believer in the status quo as Hillary or McCain. You got proof of this, like a link? Because if not it seems like you're assuming that he's just like everyone else. He's saying what he thinks he needs to in order to get elected, just like the others. When I think of "genuine" I think of transparency, which is not something that comes to mind when I think of Obama or any of the others. Again how do you know that? Look I can go to a website, pick out something from his record and see how consistent that is with his views: Lack of enforcement sets tone for more hate crimes. (Dec 2007) Need justice that is not just us, but is everybody. (Jun 2007) Some heinous crimes justify the ultimate punishment. (Oct 2006) Videotape all capital punishment interrogations. (Oct 2006) Battles legislatively against the death penalty. (Jul 2004) Supports alternative sentencing and rehabilitation. (Jul 1998) Voted YES on reinstating $1.15 billion funding for the COPS Program. (Mar 2007) Rated 75% by the NCJA, indicating a mixed record on criminal justice. (Dec 2005) http://www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htmThat seems pretty in line with what he's said, and this is just one part of his platform. You know, they only lie when their lips move? It sounds to me like your concern is more of tactics, not of being 'genuine.' But if you don't think Obama's got a façade, then I don't know what to tell you except that he wasn't above dirty tricks and negative campaigning in his senatorial run. He's got no facade, I have yet to see an attack ad run by him. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Godot
Full Member
Karma: +6/-23
Posts: 146
|
|
« Reply #46 on: January 09, 2008, 01:28:42 PM » |
|
Hillary Clinton basically slept her way to the top. You mean, Bill slept her way to the top, don't you?  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
2112$
|
|
« Reply #47 on: January 09, 2008, 01:34:16 PM » |
|
Hillary Clinton basically slept her way to the top. She did not go through a rigorous political process. She did not rise to the level of senator by debating issues and rising from local politics and evolve into the national stage. Nope. She slept with a man who did it all, and she was there because she knew she couldn't do it without a man.. Even when he slept with every bimbette he could find, she knew she could not achieve anything without a man.
The senate was handed to her in a dem state and dem leadership that owed her husband much. And now she is using the same system in an attempt to vault to the top. I would hardly call the first lady any kind of elected office, and I certainly don't see the office mentioned in the Constitution as having real power or authority (beyond what the man, her husband gives her).
Hillary turns feminism on its head and everything she has, she owes to a man who abused his relationship with her. If that is measured or realistic, I would suggest you go back to school kid.
I don't think Obama has the full measure needed presently (though I think later he will, maybe another term or two), but at least he rose through the hurley burley of American politics in order to guage a nations pulse. It wasn't given to him, he earned it.
You're sexism is showing... again. A woman can't make it to the top without a man and if a woman does it she didn't earn it like a man? Not that I disagree with you that she needed Bill. That's why I firmly believe that if Hillary doesn't make it, it will be a cold day in hell before we have another chance at a woman president. I think there are many people in positions of power in this country not because they earned it, but because of who they know, intimately or otherwise. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Perrin
|
|
« Reply #48 on: January 09, 2008, 01:37:53 PM » |
|
I am with Micfranklin on this aspect of the thread. Obama has not shown himself to be anything less than genuine. He is the only candiate that has even discussed attempting to make the government more transparent to its citizens. He has not engaged in much of the mudslinging, he has even complimented his opponent on their plans and their ideals. He is the only really Charismatic leader out there. I think people underestimate how important charisma is for a president.
BTW, it is ignorant to say that Clinton slept her way to the top. While I might not be her biggest fan, she definitely earned her place as a candidate for president. I doubt that Bill would have been president if he had not married Hillary. I will let you all make all the jokes you want about that last statement, but until I see one of you as a viable candidate for president, your opinion on how Clinton got to where she is, is worthless. Now, if you don't want her to be president, you can feel free to not vote for her. I know I won't be voting for her.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
A fanatic is one who can’t change his mind and won’t change the subject.
In America, anyone can be president. That\\\'s one of the risks you take.
|
|
|
Godot
Full Member
Karma: +6/-23
Posts: 146
|
|
« Reply #49 on: January 09, 2008, 01:45:35 PM » |
|
You got proof of this, like a link? Because if not it seems like you're assuming that he's just like everyone else. I heard it on the radio. I suppose you'll tell me it wasn't his voice? He's saying what he thinks he needs to in order to get elected, just like the others. When I think of "genuine" I think of transparency, which is not something that comes to mind when I think of Obama or any of the others. Again how do you know that? Look I can go to a website, pick out something from his record and see how consistent that is with his views: [/quote] Are you serious? You think he's not saying what he needs to in order to get elected? If you think he's the real deal, good for you. I am saying that he doesn't represent the working class as he is one of the wealthy. He spent millions of his own money to get elected to the Senate, which working class person can do that? None. Does he even acknowledge this in the campaign? No, of course not. But his, and everyone's campaign, attempts to portray the candidate as "one of the people." I call that a façade. You know, they only lie when their lips move? It sounds to me like your concern is more of tactics, not of being 'genuine.' But if you don't think Obama's got a façade, then I don't know what to tell you except that he wasn't above dirty tricks and negative campaigning in his senatorial run. He's got no facade, I have yet to see an attack ad run by him.[/quote] I said he wasn't above dirty tricks and negative campaigning in his senatorial campaign. I see no reason to believe he isn't capable of doing it this campaign. That he hasn't yet is at the least a calculated decision, as it would be for any candidate. Either way, it's a tactic not a measure of being "genuine." |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Godot
Full Member
Karma: +6/-23
Posts: 146
|
|
« Reply #50 on: January 09, 2008, 01:49:19 PM » |
|
I am with Micfranklin on this aspect of the thread. Obama has not shown himself to be anything less than genuine. He is the only candiate that has even discussed attempting to make the government more transparent to its citizens. He has not engaged in much of the mudslinging, he has even complimented his opponent on their plans and their ideals. He is the only really Charismatic leader out there. I think people underestimate how important charisma is for a president.
BTW, it is ignorant to say that Clinton slept her way to the top. While I might not be her biggest fan, she definitely earned her place as a candidate for president. I doubt that Bill would have been president if he had not married Hillary. I will let you all make all the jokes you want about that last statement, but until I see one of you as a viable candidate for president, your opinion on how Clinton got to where she is, is worthless. Now, if you don't want her to be president, you can feel free to not vote for her. I know I won't be voting for her.
It sounds as if some people confuse "genuine" with "nice" or "good sportsmanship." You're correct to point out the sexism, but do you yourself believe that Hillary climbed this high without Bill's help? Of course she did. I think she could have without him, but we'll never know for sure. We all do this, only some of us call it networking. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Abraxas
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Karma: +212/-207
Posts: 4,064
"You do not speak for the rest"
|
|
« Reply #51 on: January 09, 2008, 01:52:48 PM » |
|
Hillary Clinton basically slept her way to the top. She did not go through a rigorous political process. She did not rise to the level of senator by debating issues and rising from local politics and evolve into the national stage. Nope. She slept with a man who did it all, and she was there because she knew she couldn't do it without a man.. Even when he slept with every bimbette he could find, she knew she could not achieve anything without a man.
The senate was handed to her in a dem state and dem leadership that owed her husband much. And now she is using the same system in an attempt to vault to the top. I would hardly call the first lady any kind of elected office, and I certainly don't see the office mentioned in the Constitution as having real power or authority (beyond what the man, her husband gives her).
Hillary turns feminism on its head and everything she has, she owes to a man who abused his relationship with her. If that is measured or realistic, I would suggest you go back to school kid.
I don't think Obama has the full measure needed presently (though I think later he will, maybe another term or two), but at least he rose through the hurley burley of American politics in order to guage a nations pulse. It wasn't given to him, he earned it.
You're sexism is showing... again. A woman can't make it to the top without a man and if a woman does it she didn't earn it like a man? Not that I disagree with you that she needed Bill. That's why I firmly believe that if Hillary doesn't make it, it will be a cold day in hell before we have another chance at a woman president. I think there are many people in positions of power in this country not because they earned it, but because of who they know, intimately or otherwise. This is bullox. Obama, a minority, rose up just fine despite a less than reputable past and the fact that he's black. I respect his postion far more than I respect Hillary's. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like its from Neptune.
- Noam Chomsky
... you can almost see the high water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
- Hunter S. Thompson
|
|
|
|
Perrin
|
|
« Reply #52 on: January 09, 2008, 02:02:02 PM » |
|
I am with Micfranklin on this aspect of the thread. Obama has not shown himself to be anything less than genuine. He is the only candiate that has even discussed attempting to make the government more transparent to its citizens. He has not engaged in much of the mudslinging, he has even complimented his opponent on their plans and their ideals. He is the only really Charismatic leader out there. I think people underestimate how important charisma is for a president.
BTW, it is ignorant to say that Clinton slept her way to the top. While I might not be her biggest fan, she definitely earned her place as a candidate for president. I doubt that Bill would have been president if he had not married Hillary. I will let you all make all the jokes you want about that last statement, but until I see one of you as a viable candidate for president, your opinion on how Clinton got to where she is, is worthless. Now, if you don't want her to be president, you can feel free to not vote for her. I know I won't be voting for her.
It sounds as if some people confuse "genuine" with "nice" or "good sportsmanship." You're correct to point out the sexism, but do you yourself believe that Hillary climbed this high without Bill's help? Of course she did. I think she could have without him, but we'll never know for sure. We all do this, only some of us call it networking. Trust me, not confused on genuine. How about you proving he is not genuine. It was your statement and your job to prove it. If it is just an opinion then that is fine by me, but if you are making an accusation then please back it up with some evidence. BTW, I would say almost every married politician has made it to where they are with the help of their spouse. It is almost impossible to make it far in politics without the aid of others, whether it is a spouse, family member, or friends. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
A fanatic is one who can’t change his mind and won’t change the subject.
In America, anyone can be president. That\\\'s one of the risks you take.
|
|
|
|
daedalus 2.0
|
|
« Reply #53 on: January 09, 2008, 02:07:59 PM » |
|
Hillary Clinton basically slept her way to the top. She did not go through a rigorous political process. She did not rise to the level of senator by debating issues and rising from local politics and evolve into the national stage. Nope. She slept with a man who did it all, and she was there because she knew she couldn't do it without a man.. Even when he slept with every bimbette he could find, she knew she could not achieve anything without a man.
The senate was handed to her in a dem state and dem leadership that owed her husband much. And now she is using the same system in an attempt to vault to the top. I would hardly call the first lady any kind of elected office, and I certainly don't see the office mentioned in the Constitution as having real power or authority (beyond what the man, her husband gives her).
Hillary turns feminism on its head and everything she has, she owes to a man who abused his relationship with her. If that is measured or realistic, I would suggest you go back to school kid.
I don't think Obama has the full measure needed presently (though I think later he will, maybe another term or two), but at least he rose through the hurley burley of American politics in order to guage a nations pulse. It wasn't given to him, he earned it.
You're sexism is showing... again. A woman can't make it to the top without a man and if a woman does it she didn't earn it like a man? Not that I disagree with you that she needed Bill. That's why I firmly believe that if Hillary doesn't make it, it will be a cold day in hell before we have another chance at a woman president. I think there are many people in positions of power in this country not because they earned it, but because of who they know, intimately or otherwise. Yeah, you'd think in 2007 we would be past this misogynist view of women in power. Even if she did sleep her way to the top (which is pathetically condescending) she did what a woman would have to do if the power structure is anything like the Neolithic view Baldar has. Luckily, he represents a minority more and more. I just can't figure out if he has this view because of his mother or wife: Dinner at our house was always cold. Physically and emotionally. My father always maintained we could say anything we wanted to, but we had better damn well back it up with some facts. Our mother was of the same nature, though her method was infinitely more manipulative. So we kept an updated set of the encyclopedia Brittanica next to the dinner table ready for a quick reference. I wanted to beat my father so badly that I began reading the entire set of secondary encyclopedias we kept upstairs for our homework, to this day I remember it, World Scope encyclopedia. Not of the level Brittanica had but still a good read for a little kid of 13. Surprisingly enough I learned that Bill and Hillary Clinton raised their child in much the same way.
At sixteen my parents divorced. The difference between an aristocratic (and manipulative mother) and an intelligent but cold and distant father was too wide for them to work out. The divorce was acrimonious with my father yelling and stern and my mother manipulating us children with both guilt and anger. From Baldar's Autobiography. Misogyny starts young.. apparently around 16 years... (Notice the reference to the Clintons! how timely!) |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: January 09, 2008, 02:17:02 PM by daedalus 2.0 »
|
Logged
|
\\\\"SUCK IT, JESUS!\\\\" Kathy Griffin
\"Hitler burns Anne Frank for a day, and it\'s Evil.
God burns Anne Frank for eternity, and it\'s Just.\"Anon
|
|
|
|
micfranklin
|
|
« Reply #54 on: January 09, 2008, 02:48:45 PM » |
|
I heard it on the radio. I suppose you'll tell me it wasn't his voice? I heard Megatron on the radio with Optimus Prime. That doesn't make it true. But since you did hear it what exactly did he say? Are you serious? You think he's not saying what he needs to in order to get elected? If you think he's the real deal, good for you. I am saying that he doesn't represent the working class as he is one of the wealthy. He spent millions of his own money to get elected to the Senate, which working class person can do that? None. Does he even acknowledge this in the campaign? No, of course not. But his, and everyone's campaign, attempts to portray the candidate as "one of the people." I call that a façade. No I don't think he is saying what everyone wants to hear. Okay, so he is a wealthy person, big deal, it's not impossible for someone in his class to speak to and for the middle class, it doesn't happen too often nowadays but it's not impossible. And I guess you didn't notice that he kept mentioning "we" during his Iowa speech, "we" as in everybody. Besides don't you have to be a working class person to even get into the Illinois chair in the first place? I said he wasn't above dirty tricks and negative campaigning in his senatorial campaign. I see no reason to believe he isn't capable of doing it this campaign. That he hasn't yet is at the least a calculated decision, as it would be for any candidate. Either way, it's a tactic not a measure of being "genuine." What dirty tricks did he use in his senatorial campaign, I sure would like to know. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Baldar
|
|
« Reply #55 on: January 09, 2008, 06:02:10 PM » |
|
Hillary Clinton basically slept her way to the top. She did not go through a rigorous political process. She did not rise to the level of senator by debating issues and rising from local politics and evolve into the national stage. Nope. She slept with a man who did it all, and she was there because she knew she couldn't do it without a man.. Even when he slept with every bimbette he could find, she knew she could not achieve anything without a man.
The senate was handed to her in a dem state and dem leadership that owed her husband much. And now she is using the same system in an attempt to vault to the top. I would hardly call the first lady any kind of elected office, and I certainly don't see the office mentioned in the Constitution as having real power or authority (beyond what the man, her husband gives her).
Hillary turns feminism on its head and everything she has, she owes to a man who abused his relationship with her. If that is measured or realistic, I would suggest you go back to school kid.
I don't think Obama has the full measure needed presently (though I think later he will, maybe another term or two), but at least he rose through the hurley burley of American politics in order to guage a nations pulse. It wasn't given to him, he earned it.
You're sexism is showing... again. A woman can't make it to the top without a man and if a woman does it she didn't earn it like a man? Not that I disagree with you that she needed Bill. That's why I firmly believe that if Hillary doesn't make it, it will be a cold day in hell before we have another chance at a woman president. I think there are many people in positions of power in this country not because they earned it, but because of who they know, intimately or otherwise. Wrong, I think a woman can work her way to the top. My wife is a CFO, I worked for two talented business leaders who happened to be women. Frankly good leaders are good leaders regardless of sex. So you are completely wrong where your view of me is concerned. Certainly many people are in positions they don't deserve. I didn't imply that isn't true either. That doesn't mean I have to accept it in anyone including Hillary Clinton. Hillary didn't work her way to the top, certainly Bill put her there. The fact that you seem to think that if Hillary doesn't make it, no woman will, suggests your extreme partisan nature. Nancy Pelosi, Condileeza Rice, more women finishing graduate school than men, women CFO's, you are very myopic when it comes to this. Care to tell me which other presidential candidate manipulated his party into giving his wife or her husband a senatorial position? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Baldar
|
|
« Reply #56 on: January 09, 2008, 06:06:10 PM » |
|
Hillary Clinton basically slept her way to the top. She did not go through a rigorous political process. She did not rise to the level of senator by debating issues and rising from local politics and evolve into the national stage. Nope. She slept with a man who did it all, and she was there because she knew she couldn't do it without a man.. Even when he slept with every bimbette he could find, she knew she could not achieve anything without a man.
The senate was handed to her in a dem state and dem leadership that owed her husband much. And now she is using the same system in an attempt to vault to the top. I would hardly call the first lady any kind of elected office, and I certainly don't see the office mentioned in the Constitution as having real power or authority (beyond what the man, her husband gives her).
Hillary turns feminism on its head and everything she has, she owes to a man who abused his relationship with her. If that is measured or realistic, I would suggest you go back to school kid.
I don't think Obama has the full measure needed presently (though I think later he will, maybe another term or two), but at least he rose through the hurley burley of American politics in order to guage a nations pulse. It wasn't given to him, he earned it.
You're sexism is showing... again. A woman can't make it to the top without a man and if a woman does it she didn't earn it like a man? Not that I disagree with you that she needed Bill. That's why I firmly believe that if Hillary doesn't make it, it will be a cold day in hell before we have another chance at a woman president. I think there are many people in positions of power in this country not because they earned it, but because of who they know, intimately or otherwise. Yeah, you'd think in 2007 we would be past this misogynist view of women in power. Even if she did sleep her way to the top (which is pathetically condescending) she did what a woman would have to do if the power structure is anything like the Neolithic view Baldar has. Luckily, he represents a minority more and more. I just can't figure out if he has this view because of his mother or wife: Dinner at our house was always cold. Physically and emotionally. My father always maintained we could say anything we wanted to, but we had better damn well back it up with some facts. Our mother was of the same nature, though her method was infinitely more manipulative. So we kept an updated set of the encyclopedia Brittanica next to the dinner table ready for a quick reference. I wanted to beat my father so badly that I began reading the entire set of secondary encyclopedias we kept upstairs for our homework, to this day I remember it, World Scope encyclopedia. Not of the level Brittanica had but still a good read for a little kid of 13. Surprisingly enough I learned that Bill and Hillary Clinton raised their child in much the same way.
At sixteen my parents divorced. The difference between an aristocratic (and manipulative mother) and an intelligent but cold and distant father was too wide for them to work out. The divorce was acrimonious with my father yelling and stern and my mother manipulating us children with both guilt and anger. From Baldar's Autobiography. Misogyny starts young.. apparently around 16 years... (Notice the reference to the Clintons! how timely!) Sigh, what a complete idiot you are. My view is clearly explained but your hatred makes you even appear even stupid than previously assumed. I suppose everyone who agrees with my reasonsing is a mysoginist.  As a teenager I tried to masturbate, but the tweezers kept slipping. From the autobiography of daedalus-- apparently he is a small man in more ways than one. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Abraxas
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Karma: +212/-207
Posts: 4,064
"You do not speak for the rest"
|
|
« Reply #57 on: January 09, 2008, 10:38:45 PM » |
|
Well, to get this topic back on course: apparently the woman who asked the question... voted for Obama. If this wasn't a "LOL!" moment, I don't know what is... The woman whose empathetic question — "how do you do it?" — sparked uncharacteristic emotion Monday from Sen. Hillary Clinton ended up voting for Sen. Barack Obama in the New Hampshire primary. LINKLOL! |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like its from Neptune.
- Noam Chomsky
... you can almost see the high water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
- Hunter S. Thompson
|
|
|
Toaster
Hero Member
Karma: +53/-129
Posts: 741
Burnin' for you
|
|
« Reply #58 on: January 10, 2008, 03:29:59 AM » |
|
She seems so staged it isn't funny.
I truly fear for this country if Osama bin Rodham is elected. The difference between her and Bush is not in America's favor.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
DISCUSSION, n.
A method of confirming others in their errors.
The Devil\\'s Dictionary
|
|
|
|
2112$
|
|
« Reply #59 on: January 10, 2008, 05:48:05 AM » |
|
Every single question asked to every single person running for office is staged or at the very least preapproved. The campaign managers ask the people to ask the questions they need their candidates to answer to get elected. Ask Baldar, he said he worked on Schwartzeneggar's campaign in California a few years ago. I also remember Baldar saying "We" are men and we know more than you because we are men and only because we are men. You are just some jealous little girl we can summarily dismiss, but only because you are a girl and for no other reason. You are the weaker and less knowlegeable of the sexes. But I think it may have been sarcasm or dry humor. It would be up to him to say for sure. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
