IAP Political Forum
November 22, 2008, 02:10:56 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Welcome to the new "IAP 2.0" -- please re-register before continuing to post.
 
   Home   Blog Forum   Help Search Chat Login Register  
Digg This!
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: How are we going to win the peace in Afghanistan?  (Read 1197 times)
Vagrant
Newbie
*

Karma: +4/-0
Posts: 3


View Profile
« Reply #45 on: January 31, 2008, 09:15:39 AM »

Quote
One has to wonder what game he is playing by attributing an agenda of, "delegitimizing the enemy by externalizing them", to my point when his own quote does the same damn thing. Then he wonders why people stop reading him.

You stupid Americans and your War on Terror!
Logged
Ahkenaten
Forum Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +136/-136
Posts: 1,664


Professor of Angular Mil and Applied Narcotics


View Profile
« Reply #46 on: January 31, 2008, 10:16:40 AM »

'sactly.

Welcome back Vagrant.


Logged
Terry Mathis
High Society
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +57/-92
Posts: 1,239


Goulburn NSW Australia Dual Australian/U.S.


View Profile WWW
« Reply #47 on: January 31, 2008, 02:02:35 PM »

Quote
One has to wonder what game he is playing by attributing an agenda of, "delegitimizing the enemy by externalizing them", to my point when his own quote does the same damn thing. Then he wonders why people stop reading him.

You stupid Americans and your War on Terror!

 Grin
Logged

Quote
Its not what they say that bothers me, its what they say that just aint so that does !
- Will Rogers
Quote
So that we may end the oppression wrought by our own hands.
- Shulman
Peisithanatos
Sr. Member
****

Karma: +28/-51
Posts: 450



View Profile
« Reply #48 on: February 01, 2008, 03:56:02 PM »

Quote
more than proved my self too many times

can't recall u proving one goddam thing. Sorry, memory problems.

Quote
I am right. You are wrong.

your profundities are irreplaceable, i will always remember your debunking of the Chechen claims to nativity and your masterful exegis of Karachi street crime as the underlying cause of anti-NATO activities.

Quote
You're so dishonest.

it's just that facts change once I mention them.

Quote
you and i have already agreed that the Taliban started with the ISI

i was the only one on "this side" of the forum who said that ISI was behind Tal, that anti-Soviet mujaheddeen were NOT Tal, that US didn't have direct role in shoring Tal up. That's not enough for you, u demand laser-sharp border and monocausal explanations.

Yes ISI was behind Tal, and YES Tal was popular in the torn-apart country(among Pashtus). Yes Pak used Tal, AND YES Tal was indigenous Afghan Pashtu movement. Yes ISI was a factor, AND YES there were strong local factors in T's success. No US didn't create Qaeda, BUT YES the environment in which Qaeda was conceieved was funded, supported and eulogized by the US. Can't handle grey color? Can't handle that life is ambiguous, slightly more complicated than good boys vs. bad boys?

Quote
Right here you are lying to us when you propose this cherry-picked half-quote, quote sans link

1. "cherry-picked". BS. The quotes I gave are the main thrust of his interview. 2. "half-quote". They are complete quotes, inasmuch as the overall meaning. 3. "sans link". The link is right there at the end. Who's lying? I think u r.

Quote
we all know how notorious you

all the people know,.. we the people, we won't let me bullshit us, we all are victims of my rampant hypocrisy. Power to the people. One nation united. Divided we fall.

Quote
The Taliban ARE illegitimate and that's all there is to it.

as u say, chief. Bad people are evil, that's all there is to it. Every Pashto in every village says that. U have proven that many times. Your thing works here just fine. It kind of doesn't really work over there on the ground, but that's cos the Toronto twits keep screwing things up.

Quote
mixed with ISI from the very  beginning. It is not a secret or a debate.

i kind of said very same thing to u like two years ago. Catching up fast.

Even though I HIGHLIGHTED the words "Another group -- which is led by foreign interests" in the interview, u accuse me of lying, cherry=picking, taking out of context. U're totally ruined, dude. I come out of my way to specifically emphasize that freaking YES there was and is that "group -- which is led by foreign interests", fully acknowledging external role. It's just that for u THIS group just MUST be the ONLY group. U can't accept that there are OTHER groups in the resistance. The external factor must be the ONLY factor, - or else your sweet coherence is trashed.

And so, having cited that there is a "group -- which is led by foreign interests", i give u Karzai's official's statement that "The third group is genuine Afghans who lost their way in different circumstances throughout history....all people are not Al-Qaeda, [or] Islamic fundamentalists, [or] genuine Taliban. There are people who just want to play a role in Afghan politics and they want to play this role through violent means.""
 
aint working for u. There is one evil, and that's all there is to it. U're so rite, i/m so rawn. Let's see how it works on the ground though,


Logged

a big pile of bs covered with a thick layer of sugar
Terry Mathis
High Society
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +57/-92
Posts: 1,239


Goulburn NSW Australia Dual Australian/U.S.


View Profile WWW
« Reply #49 on: February 01, 2008, 04:21:34 PM »



Pisces mate,

When you quote, or partially quote in your case, PLEASE indicate who you are quoting. Because all you are doing is causing a guessing game.  Wink


- Terry
Logged

Quote
Its not what they say that bothers me, its what they say that just aint so that does !
- Will Rogers
Quote
So that we may end the oppression wrought by our own hands.
- Shulman
Ahkenaten
Forum Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +136/-136
Posts: 1,664


Professor of Angular Mil and Applied Narcotics


View Profile
« Reply #50 on: February 02, 2008, 10:12:37 AM »

Quote from: BigBear
Ahk:  Your statement about the king still being popular is intriguing.  Would the Afghans be willing to follow him?  Would he be better than Karzai?  I think that a constitutional monarchy is just as acceptable as a parliamentary democracy or a republic.  Maybe the Afghans would like one over the other.

The King was usurped by agents of the Soviets before their invasion, so that would be as close as one could get to living-memory of a return to the status quo. A monarch as head of state, not actually a ruler is a very handy thing for a nation like Afghanistan. It provides an office that represents a nexus between the state and the religion, between the center and the people, and between an elected party and the opposition. This is a very handy tool. People  can debate the constitution, they can oppose the elected leader without appearing as though they oppose the state or the constitution. In other words it provides for a leader for the intermediate leaders and takes the state of an elected leader holding ALL the power.


Cassandra I'll answer your anthropology post later. Haven't forgotten.
Ahk
Logged
Terry Mathis
High Society
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +57/-92
Posts: 1,239


Goulburn NSW Australia Dual Australian/U.S.


View Profile WWW
« Reply #51 on: February 02, 2008, 10:21:25 AM »

Quote from: BigBear
Ahk:  Your statement about the king still being popular is intriguing.  Would the Afghans be willing to follow him?  Would he be better than Karzai?  I think that a constitutional monarchy is just as acceptable as a parliamentary democracy or a republic.  Maybe the Afghans would like one over the other.

The King was usurped by agents of the Soviets before their invasion, so that would be as close as one could get to living-memory of a return to the status quo. A monarch as head of state, not actually a ruler is a very handy thing for a nation like Afghanistan. It provides an office that represents a nexus between the state and the religion, between the center and the people, and between an elected party and the opposition. This is a very handy tool. People  can debate the constitution, they can oppose the elected leader without appearing as though they oppose the state or the constitution. In other words it provides for a leader for the intermediate leaders and takes the state of an elected leader holding ALL the power.


Cassandra I'll answer your anthropology post later. Haven't forgotten.
Ahk


Ahk,

If Afghanistan had a King, it would have to be under approval of the Various Tribal Mullahs. How would one get around that?


Regards
Terry
Logged

Quote
Its not what they say that bothers me, its what they say that just aint so that does !
- Will Rogers
Quote
So that we may end the oppression wrought by our own hands.
- Shulman
Ahkenaten
Forum Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +136/-136
Posts: 1,664


Professor of Angular Mil and Applied Narcotics


View Profile
« Reply #52 on: February 02, 2008, 10:25:50 AM »

No tribal Mullahs Terry. But I forgot he died earlier this year.

Quote
After World War II, in which he succeeded in maintaining both Afghanistan's neutrality and its borders, the king recognised the need for modernisation.

Zahir Shah brought in foreign advisers, founded the first modern university, and fostered cultural and commercial relations with Europe.

But amid the modernisation, dark undercurrents of wrangling between the country's tribal factions remained.

In July 1973, while he was in Italy receiving medical treatment for an eye condition, Zahir Shah was ousted in a coup orchestrated by his cousin, Mohammad Daoud.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6911260.stm

Daoud was Kremlin's man.

Ahk
Logged
Fredledingue
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +30/-31
Posts: 868



View Profile
« Reply #53 on: February 02, 2008, 11:40:44 AM »

After the demise of the Taliban regime, he was offered to rule the country by the allies' think-tank, but beside that he was too old, Afghans didn't want him.
Logged

Dr. Zoidberg is jewish (and an important AIPAC donator!)

Peisithanatos
Sr. Member
****

Karma: +28/-51
Posts: 450



View Profile
« Reply #54 on: February 03, 2008, 06:21:04 PM »

the king was deposed with no participation by, and to the surprise of, the Soviets. The revolution was not inspired from Kremlin, whether u can believe this or not.
Logged

a big pile of bs covered with a thick layer of sugar
yilmaz101
Full Member
***

Karma: +8/-66
Posts: 248



View Profile
« Reply #55 on: February 04, 2008, 01:03:38 AM »

True, Daud took power in 1973 when he verthrew his cousin (and brother in law at the same time). He was overthrown in 1977 in a pro soviet, marxist coup. Daud was considered a risk by the Soviets as he had a pro pashtun unification agenda which would eventually mean that Daud would first approach Pakistan and eventually the west. Mind you the only reason that Afghanistan was in the Soviet sphere of influence all along was the US's refusal to deal with Afghanistan because of the discord between Afghanistan and Pakistan about the Peshtun......

the king was deposed with no participation by, and to the surprise of, the Soviets. The revolution was not inspired from Kremlin, whether u can believe this or not.
Logged
Ahkenaten
Forum Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +136/-136
Posts: 1,664


Professor of Angular Mil and Applied Narcotics


View Profile
« Reply #56 on: February 04, 2008, 05:41:31 AM »

Quote
Mind you the only reason that Afghanistan was in the Soviet sphere of influence all along was the US's refusal to deal with Afghanistan because of the discord between Afghanistan and Pakistan about the Peshtun......


Ahhhh! I knew it. I knew there was a reason it was the USs fault they invaded. "Soviet sphere of influence" is a good euphemism for invasion.


Ahk
Logged
Fredledingue
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +30/-31
Posts: 868



View Profile
« Reply #57 on: February 04, 2008, 12:05:50 PM »

Ahk,
Dont' be so cynical:
Maybe he simply meant that the US had to deal with Afghanistan just like it dealt with Vietnam...
Logged

Dr. Zoidberg is jewish (and an important AIPAC donator!)

Terry Mathis
High Society
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +57/-92
Posts: 1,239


Goulburn NSW Australia Dual Australian/U.S.


View Profile WWW
« Reply #58 on: February 04, 2008, 01:16:57 PM »

Ahk,
Dont' be so cynical:
Maybe he simply meant that the US had to deal with Afghanistan just like it dealt with Vietnam...

Fred,

Don't even mention the 'Nam!  Sad


-Terry
Logged

Quote
Its not what they say that bothers me, its what they say that just aint so that does !
- Will Rogers
Quote
So that we may end the oppression wrought by our own hands.
- Shulman
Fredledingue
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +30/-31
Posts: 868



View Profile
« Reply #59 on: February 04, 2008, 02:07:51 PM »

Why? On this forum I can.

Regards Wink
Logged

Dr. Zoidberg is jewish (and an important AIPAC donator!)

Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.4 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC
Joomla Bridge by JoomlaHacks.com
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 1.881 seconds with 26 queries.