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Author Topic: Modern Day Terrorism. What is it, and what groups are Involved and Where?  (Read 2463 times)
Cryptomaniac
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« Reply #150 on: February 21, 2008, 03:44:34 PM »

Crypto:

What is the difference between terrorist groups and criminal gangs?

Both employ tactics that are similar in nature (although usually not in scope), the main difference does not lie in the means but in the ends. Violence of any kind is a crime under most laws. The motive for the violence determines if an act is a simple crime or a political crime. Usually activities of terrorist organizations and organized crime are very similar and even intertvined. Most of the time though for organized crime proceeds from crime is the ends while for terrorist organizations the proceeds are used to finance the organization towards its ultimate goals, which are political. That's why the mafia is not a terrorist organization while terrorist organizations are not just organized crime.

Yilmaz, your point is well taken, but not quite on target with the argument I was trying to make.

Try to think of "terrorism" and "terrorist groups" as two different things (and they are different).  I can't dispute that terrorist groups have a political goal.  It isn't as easy to recruit based on sheer hate as it is to recruit using real or perceived global realities as justification, and ultimately forming some political platform.  But that was not at the heart of the issue.  The question was "what is terrorism?", and this is what we are trying to debate.

What I dispute is that terrorism always has a political goal.  I also dispute that terrorist groups always act with that political goal in mind.  I think it is unwise to believe that all terrorism is done for some political aim.  Is it not possible that some terrorists are so filled with hate that they are out to kill anyone who is judged unfit for life?  I don't think this is a stretch.    

You've said that you are currently doing research on the topic.  I would be interested to know if there are any other stories like the one of the young PKK member you talked about before.  Her joining of the group was not political, much as the joining of criminal gangs is often not political.  I bet you will find (if you are indeed looking) members who are filled up to their eyeballs with hate, who believe any dead Turk is a good Turk.  I'll even go further.......If the opportunity presents itself, and I don't want you to do something unsafe, I would like to know something:

  Are there any members who will answer "yes" to the following questions:

1)  "Assume you carry out your attacks on Turks and kill many that you are fighting against.  Will you consider it 'worth it' if your goals are not reached?"

2)  "If you knew, in advance, today, that you would NOT accomplish your political goal(s), would you still fight and commit these acts against Turks?"

That is at the heart of the matter.  If they answer "yes" to any of those, then I think it safe to assume that goal is not always political.  Indeed, if any terrorist anywhere (and there has to be some), answer "yes" to either question, then I think it is safe to assume that sometimes terrorism is used as a way to kill those who should be punished.
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yilmaz101
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« Reply #151 on: February 21, 2008, 03:57:51 PM »

I will be in the field the first week of April. This time around I am scheduled to interview special forces personel on their counter terrorism experiences. But if I can (I should be able to), I'll try and find a few ex terrorists to ask your questions. Also let me sift through my team's research notes to see if they have any data regarding those questions. It'll take a few days as I am mostly concerned with organization aspects of the terrorists and the security forces.
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Cryptomaniac
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« Reply #152 on: February 21, 2008, 04:06:32 PM »

I will be in the field the first week of April. This time around I am scheduled to interview special forces personel on their counter terrorism experiences. But if I can (I should be able to), I'll try and find a few ex terrorists to ask your questions. Also let me sift through my team's research notes to see if they have any data regarding those questions. It'll take a few days as I am mostly concerned with organization aspects of the terrorists and the security forces.

Sounds great, Yilmaz.  Interesting that we can be at two different sides of the issue but maintain civility - it seems to be a rare occurance these days.  Kudos on a good debate!

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Terry Mathis
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« Reply #153 on: February 21, 2008, 05:21:59 PM »

Thanks Cass that was a really good contribution.

Terry & Yimaz: No biggy guys Im not wagging the finger at either of you, and I certainly can get "charged" during debate myself so it not like I haven't been there. It's just as a 3rd party is seem like you guys are arguing eggshell white and off white.


White
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Its not what they say that bothers me, its what they say that just aint so that does !
- Will Rogers
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So that we may end the oppression wrought by our own hands.
- Shulman
yilmaz101
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« Reply #154 on: February 21, 2008, 10:19:01 PM »

Hell no it ain't, especially if Terry says so! It is white  laugh
Thanks Cass that was a really good contribution.

Terry & Yimaz: No biggy guys Im not wagging the finger at either of you, and I certainly can get "charged" during debate myself so it not like I haven't been there. It's just as a 3rd party is seem like you guys are arguing eggshell white and off white.


White
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Jericoacoara
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« Reply #155 on: February 22, 2008, 11:28:10 PM »

I know more about terrorism than you could ever hope to. As a matter of fact I will be travelling to SE Turkey this spring and will be meeting with people on both sides of the issue. Of all the people I least need you to teach me about terrorism.


Good luck with that Yilmaz. Smiley

Let us know what you find out. Would be interesting to read findings of your interviews and your impressions.

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The greatest tragedy is for a person to die with the music still within them.
Terry Mathis
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« Reply #156 on: February 28, 2008, 07:59:26 AM »

Hey I work 9 hours a day, have a PhD thesis to finish and a few research projects on the side. I have to let off steam somehow. That's where Terry comes in handy..... Grin


Ditto kid, except I'm old enough to be your father and you are excellent entertainment fodder!  Grin
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Quote
Its not what they say that bothers me, its what they say that just aint so that does !
- Will Rogers
Quote
So that we may end the oppression wrought by our own hands.
- Shulman
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