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Author Topic: Why Feminists are a joke  (Read 487 times)
ryan77
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« on: January 28, 2008, 11:02:14 PM »

Today, the New York chapter of the National Organization for Women (NOW) gave us yet another example of why feminists are not taken seriously and why they do as much to hinder women's causes and advancements as they do to help them. Speaking about Ted Kennedy's endorsement of Barack Obama for president, NOW issued the following statement:

"Sen. Kennedy’s endorsement of Hillary Clinton’s opponent in the Democratic presidential primary campaign has really hit women hard," said the statement. "Women have forgiven Kennedy, stuck up for him, stood by him, hushed the fact that he was late in his support of Title IX, the ERA, the Family Leave and Medical Act to name a few."

"And now the greatest betrayal! We are repaid with his abandonment!" the statement continues. "He’s picked the new guy over us. He’s joined the list of progressive white men who can’t or won’t handle the prospect of a woman president who is Hillary Clinton."


The greatest betrayal? Abandonment? Stood by him and forgiven him through past transgressions? I mean really, who can read this preposterous overblown reaction to Kennedy's endorsement of whom he clearly feels is simply the better candidate regardless of sex and not see the stereotypical emotional overreactive hysterical woman blowing things way out of porportion. Honestly, this single response encompasses nearly every negative stereotype of women in a few sentences. It's over-the-top emotional and borderline hysterical. It's overly dramatic. It uses a current complaint as an excuse to uneccessarily dig up and interject past grievances that are settled history and that nobody can do anything about. It lumps Kennedy together with all men as scum (i.e. "joined the list of white men who don't want a woman president"). And finally, it puts words into Kennedy's mouth he didn't say and projects beliefs onto him he doesn't hold (i.e. "can't or won't handle the idea of a woman president").

In other words, the NOW spokewoman is basically saying "I've stood by Kennedy even when he hurt me, now he has betrayed and abandoned me for another younger more attractive person. Just goes to show you that you can never trust men, they're all scumbags." Funny how NOW is strangely silent on the fact that Hillary has been apparently incapable of campaigning and getting elected on her own and has to run to her "big strong husband" to come and do all her dirty work for her. NOW doesn't utter a peep about the fact that Bill Clinton has done as much, or more, campaigning on Hillary's behalf than Hillary has done for herself. So much so, people are starting to call Hillary Clinton "Billary". 


It's like every neurotic woman you've ever met rolled into one. Just maybe Kennedy's endorsement of Obama has absolutely nothing to do with whether Barack Obama is a man or a woman, and everything to do with the fact that Obama's message and character is shockingly similiar to Jack Kennedy and Billary represents just about every single thing that is wrong with Washington today.
 
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« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2008, 05:30:22 AM »

And posts like this are why we don't need to take you seriously.

Don't you people (and you are far from alone) ever get tired of trying to shoe horn an entire group into the mouth of one?

It really makes you look lazy and intellectually weak.
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Abraxas
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« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2008, 09:37:54 AM »

Who ever said Hillary Clinton was a woman, anyway?
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« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2008, 09:40:50 AM »

Who ever said Hillary Clinton was a woman, anyway?
Well, I am pretty sure that Bill isn't gay, even if his standards are somewhat questionable.
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« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2008, 10:38:24 AM »

I would say that this group of Feminists are a joke, but as a whole, I have no idea.  I don't know all the feminist out there  Grin
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« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2008, 10:39:47 AM »

ryan, not all feminists are women and not all women are feminists, but you don't appear to understand the goal of feminism which is to provide for social, political and economic equality for women. 

As a consequence your use of the term is drawn from a  fallacious use of the term "feminists." An old an incorrect negative connotation that is unrelated to the endorsement of Senator Clinton by a number of groups like NOW who IMHO as a life long feminist, was a critical error in judgment based not on feminism, but gender.  There is a difference.

I've been a NOW member almost since the inception of the Organization, which BTW is the National Organization FOR Women and has never been a group made up completely OF women.  Primarily it is an organization related to issues, but has a separate political action committee PAC that endorses candidates as many groups do. NOW as a 501C3 is precluded from such endorsements.

Emily's List is a PAC that typically endorses those who share feminist goals as
well and primarily Democrats.

Almost out of the, IMHO way too early gate, both groups almost immediately
endorsed Clinton.  While nothing would please me more than to see a woman
sitting at that desk in the Oval Office, because of those immediate and ill thought out and timed endorsements based on gender rather than record, I've
with held my usual donation to Emily's List and for the first time since the '70s,
(the 1970s) not paid my dues for membership in NOW.

To you, because you appear to have a lack of real understanding of feminism,
the goals may be a "joke," but this feminist considered them a serious error in judgement by two PACs I would typically support with donations.

The longer the campaigns continue I believe my choices were more than correct for there are other aspects of a feminist agenda that Clinton hardly is representative of and her voting records shows it.  IMHO, feminist PACs, made a glaring error they can't now reject or recall and will pay the price.





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Ahkenaten
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« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2008, 11:12:40 AM »

Quote
To you, because you appear to have a lack of real understanding of feminism,
the goals may be a "joke," but this feminist considered them a serious error in judgement by two PACs I would typically support with donations.

Uhhhhh what? I mean c'mon now. You say:

Quote
ryan, not all feminists are women and not all women are feminists, but you don't appear to understand the goal of feminism which is to provide for social, political and economic equality for women.
....

As a consequence your use of the term is drawn from a  fallacious use of the term "feminists." An old an incorrect negative connotation that is unrelated to the endorsement of Senator Clinton by a number of groups like NOW who IMHO as a life long feminist, was a critical error in judgment based not on feminism, but gender.  There is a difference.

Oh? What is the difference? I mean if "feminisim" is not about gender then maybe we should start using a different name? one that doesn't imply female? Of course if we did that then freedom from gender roles -- something males are way behind on recognizing for themselves -- might no longer be your domain or 'property' any longer.

It stands however that NOW makes 2 crucial mis-steps in logic. You'll pardon the lack of surprise in that sentence.

1. It does NOT actually follow that the first woman president will really make anything better for women. The first woman president could, in fact, end up being really bad for women's rights. They propel this notion that a woman as president will make leaps and bounds when there's really no honest evidence to support this beyond the simplistic fact that the prez will no longer have a dick. Further they seem to figure that this is the single most important issue, and naturally it isn't even close.

"female prez = good things for women", is, ironically, an entirely sexist notion and sounds more like a fight for the sandbox rather than an articulate logical statement.

2.  It does not actually follow that if Mr.Ted has done plenty of things in the name of women's rights that he's suddenly betraying women because he doesn't continue to endorse whatever the hell they tell him to. A little bit of "what-have-you-done-for-us-lately" which sounds all too familiar to any male over 30.

In short I believe NOW has embarrassed themselves by releasing a hysterical (yes, hysterical, complete with exclamation marks --- who releases press statements with exclamation marks?) and childish rant. If I was a woman I would completely disassociate myself. The statement reads like a petulant teenager, not someone who has anyone's interests at heart but someone who simply feels jilted over a tiny thing.

EDIT: opps, I'm sorry Cass, this entirely passed over my head:
Quote
While nothing would please me more than to see a woman
sitting at that desk in the Oval Office, because of those immediate and ill thought out and timed endorsements based on gender rather than record, I've
with held my usual donation to Emily's List and for the first time since the '70s,
(the 1970s) not paid my dues for membership in NOW.

i trust you'll know which parts of my reply to ignore now Smiley
Ahk
« Last Edit: January 29, 2008, 11:26:36 AM by Ahkenaten » Logged
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« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2008, 11:21:51 AM »

The thing that pisses me off is that their turning this into an issue of gender. Hillary only has to keep being Hillary cause all the female orginizations are going to do that for her. Hell, my dad had the gaul to ask me if I was sexist because I wasn't gonna vote for her.

I was little amazed, actually, that my otherwise smart father could fall for such a ridiculous talking point.

"A vote against Hillary is a vote against female progression."

Give me a break.
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Cassandra
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« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2008, 11:38:17 AM »

Akh, once again you would like to argue semantics, but carefully ignored the word "goals" in my comments. While the terms feminist/feminism may indeed denotes female from which it is derived, those who support the "goals" are not
always female.

I believe my point was clear in that I believe NOW, Emily's list and some other groups who expound FEMINIST GOALS, made a serious error in judgment with their out the gate endorsement of Clinton. 

Historically, peace has always been a factor among those advocating a variety of political, social and economic equality for women which was ignored by NOW. Sanger's "Woman And The New Race" published in 1929 following WWI, has some very valid points made related to the issues of war and peace, though her primary goal was the provision of  contraception, a very valid factor in women being able to achieve equality by having the right to control her own personal reproductive life.

OT, maybe, but certainly related to the term "goals."

The article that was used to begin this thread IMHO, was atrocious and ridiculous. Thus my personal response to both NOW and Emily's List.

Furthermore, Senator Clinton's voting record leaves much to be desired on a variety of feminist issues, IMHO in voting for the confirmation of Federal judgeships of those who would by their history hardly stand for feminist goals
or a positive vote for Lieberman/Kyl is as well.   

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« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2008, 11:44:36 AM »

Quote
Akh, once again you would like to argue semantics

i wish. no the truth is I just failed to read you properly the first time. see my edit.

Quote
While the terms feminist/feminism may indeed denotes female from which it is derived, those who support the "goals" are not
always female.

I understand that, but they do in fact imply that only women suffer from social gender roles and only women deserve to free themselves from them.

Quote
I believe my point was clear in that I believe NOW, Emily's list and some other groups who expound FEMINIST GOALS, made a serious error in judgment with their out the gate endorsement of Clinton.
Yes i know. see the edit.




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« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2008, 12:06:03 PM »

Just to put some perspective on Ryan's post.

The quotes from NOW slamming Kennedy's endorsement were from the New York Branch of the organisation. In other words, it was only a state branch which made them.

The quotes attributed to the national branch of NOW; were.

 "Though the National Organization for Women Political Action Committee has proudly endorsed Sen. Hillary Clinton for president, we respect Sen. Kennedy's endorsement," NOW President Kim Gandy said. "We continue to encourage women everywhere to express their opinions and exercise their right to vote."
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« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2008, 02:53:48 PM »

""female prez = good things for women", is, ironically, an entirely sexist notion and sounds more like a fight for the sandbox rather than an articulate logical statement."

No problem Akh, and I agree with this statement. Certainly, it would depend not on the gender, but the political philosophy and/or record in or out of office.
I repeat: "Not all women are feminist and not all feminists are women."

Some women though who are not familiar as I with Senator Clinton's record will vote on the basis of gender alone as NOW PAC IMHO made a very serious error with that extremely unusual and early endorsement.

Jericoacoara, you beat me to the punch with your post from Gandy. Each state has it's own organization, but NOW PAC that made the Clinton endorsement was the National Org, but like state political parties are not required to promote nor support the national agenda  in all elements nor even public comments.

I served on the CA State Board of CA NOW for a number of years.  I remember a massive board battle about the endorsement of candidates in the primary in CA running against Reagan. CA did not comply at that point with the national organization, but the ultimate endorsement came much later by national.  I can' remember an occasion when the National PAC made such an early endorsement. Actually some individual chapters are autonomous and also have individual PACs. The chapter I headed for a number of years was only registered as a PAC in CA and as a consequence did not endorse national candidates, but only local and state ones.  Though I'm no longer personally active in the local chapter where I reside now, I did remain until this year a member of the National and CA organizations. 

Hopefully, after this major endorsement error IMHO I will be able to return with good conscience to an organization as a member that on many levels accomplishes much particularly with grass roots political organizing and training of women in the process of participation in the political process particularly as it relates to feminist issues.
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« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2008, 03:01:41 PM »

but you don't appear to understand the goal of feminism which is to provide for social, political and economic equality for women. 

That's one aspect, but there are also lots of feminists who are out for female dominance of men rather than equality. Those are the ones calling for "positive discrimination" etc.
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« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2008, 03:14:12 PM »

ROTFL, IamMe.  Did you forget to also add "penus envy?"  Maybe you've been listening to OxyRush or O'Liely too much. Why not just call me and women who believe they might actually have equal rights as well as equal responsibilities in
the U.S., "feminazis?"  The dinasaurs may longer not roam the planet, but they
still are clearly existent on political forums.  laugh

I'm always fascinated so many also currently identify with the GOP. BTW, the political Party that was so important in the process of women gaining sufferage in the U.S. and those who introduced the original Equal Right Amendment back in the 1930s. 

The Comstock Laws were another matter, but so is today the rabid, religious right who primarily populate the GOP base. 
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« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2008, 03:18:58 PM »

ROTFL, IamMe.  Did you forget to also add "penus envy?"  Maybe you've been listening to OxyRush or O'Liely too much. Why not just call me and women who believe they might actually have equal rights as well as equal responsibilities in
the U.S., "feminazis?"  The dinasaurs may longer not roam the planet, but they
still are clearly existent on political forums.  laugh

I'm always fascinated so many also currently identify with the GOP. BTW, the political Party that was so important in the process of women gaining sufferage in the U.S. and those who introduced the original Equal Right Amendment back in the 1930s. 

The Comstock Laws were another matter, but so is today the rabid, religious right who primarily populate the GOP base. 

Actually, I'm 17 and entirely in favour of equality. But to me equality means when people are chosen based solely on their ability to do whatever they're being chosen for. "Positive discrimination" is entirely contrary to that.
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