Factinista
Full Member
Karma: +17/-35
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« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2008, 08:30:34 AM » |
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I used to agree that too many Americans are racist, especially coming from an extreemly conservative republican area. But after seeing what has happened so far I think that the desire for change and hope outweights any subtle racism that exists. Obvious racism, that we have been seeing on this forum latley, is self defeating when it comes to national politics.
So yes, Obama can win and I hope he does.
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Abraxas
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Karma: +212/-207
Posts: 4,065
"You do not speak for the rest"
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« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2008, 08:41:08 AM » |
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Now I kinda hope he does too. Maybe SouthernPlanter will move to another country, then.
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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like its from Neptune.
- Noam Chomsky
... you can almost see the high water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
- Hunter S. Thompson
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2112$
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« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2008, 08:52:13 AM » |
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Well, Southern Planter does represent a large portion of the population, however, as we can clearly see from last night, there are far more who will vote for Obama. He actually won by a small percentage in my own state of Missouri. From the people here that I personally have heard from, Obama is an extreme muslim who can't be trusted, Hillary is a ****, and Huckabee is a really nice man. So.. obviously I was surprised by how many people here voted for Obama. There were even people standing outside in the snow and bitter cold holding Obama signs. It's amazing.
I am perfectly willing to vote for Obama if he is the nominee, but until Hillary is out, as a woman, I cannot turn my back on a woman who could be president. Especially one I respect and admire so much.
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neue regel
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« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2008, 08:56:53 AM » |
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I am perfectly willing to vote for Obama if he is the nominee, but until Hillary is out, as a woman, I cannot turn my back on a woman who could be president. How is it any more appropriate to vote FOR someone base on race/gender than to NOT vote for someone base on the same? |
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neorealist
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« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2008, 09:04:04 AM » |
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Its a solid marketing pitch...I personally think it sounds like a broken record of "yes we can for the last 45 seconds of the advertisement" (which ran in selected cities during the Super Bowl for roughly 3milllion every 30sec. of ad time)
I understand that many people love star power on the campaign trail, but its the opposite for me.
First of all, its certainly not a "marketing pitch". Anyone who knows anything about marketing knows that positive messages flop. The second fact that tells you this isn't "marketing" is the fact that this speech is nearly indentical to the keynote address Obama gave at the Democratic National Convention 4 years ago - well before the thought of running for president even entered his mind (let alone anyone else's). It is not fair to Obama or his supporters to attempt to cheapen his message, cause, and goals by attributing them to marketing. Obama is the first real honest true political leader this country has had in generations.You really don't have a grasp on how our system works do you? He's no more "real" or "honest" than the next politician ryan...he just stands for "real" things that you stand for. Its all relative. Don't kid yourself, he's not a humanitarian. You don't make your way up through the federal ranks w/ stepping on a few people or things to get up to the top. And it is a straight marketing pitch. All of messages are. |
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The man who smiles when things go wrong has thought of someone to blame it on. - Robert Bloch
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neorealist
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« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2008, 09:04:29 AM » |
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Its a solid marketing pitch...I personally think it sounds like a broken record of "yes we can for the last 45 seconds of the advertisement" (which ran in selected cities during the Super Bowl for roughly 3milllion every 30sec. of ad time)
I understand that many people love star power on the campaign trail, but its the opposite for me.
First of all, its certainly not a "marketing pitch". Anyone who knows anything about marketing knows that positive messages flop. The second fact that tells you this isn't "marketing" is the fact that this speech is nearly indentical to the keynote address Obama gave at the Democratic National Convention 4 years ago - well before the thought of running for president even entered his mind (let alone anyone else's). It is not fair to Obama or his supporters to attempt to cheapen his message, cause, and goals by attributing them to marketing. Obama is the first real honest true political leader this country has had in generations.You really don't have a grasp on how our system works do you? He's no more "real" or "honest" than the next politician ryan...he just stands for "real" things that you stand for. Its all relative. Don't kid yourself, he's not a humanitarian. You don't make your way up through the federal ranks w/ stepping on a few people or things to get up to the top. And it is a straight marketing pitch. Practically, all messages are. |
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The man who smiles when things go wrong has thought of someone to blame it on. - Robert Bloch
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Peisithanatos
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« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2008, 10:56:50 AM » |
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they both speak about rolling back the lobby power, and both go pay homage to the most powerful and dangerous lobby - AIPAC. It's consistently ranked very high by the insiders polls, it officially declares itself a lobby of a foreing country, and it's a neurotically warmongering bunch of folks. Both Oba and Hilla put the anti-lobby rhetoric in the heart of their campaigns, and they both are in AIPAC's pocket. But Hillary more so. That's why she'll win. AIPAC has much sway over the Dem Party officials, and look what's going on.... Obama takes a state despite all stakes, and then the unelected "Superdelegates" pop up and eat up Obama's victory.
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a big pile of bs covered with a thick layer of sugar
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Gane
Jr. Member
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« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2008, 01:26:36 PM » |
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He is a great speaker, I wish there was more substance to his message though. He is probably my second choice for president based solely around the fact that he appears to genuinely believe that he can make America better and because he is young I think that he would pull a Kennedy and try to make this country better. Ron Paul's my first choice by the way.  |
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Popeye
Jr. Member
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Posts: 54
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« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2008, 01:34:34 PM » |
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He is a great speaker, I wish there was more substance to his message though. He is probably my second choice for president based solely around the fact that he appears to genuinely believe that he can make America better and because he is young I think that he would pull a Kennedy and try to make this country better. Ron Paul's my first choice by the way. Ron Paul just might be the "first real honest true political leader this country has had in generations." |
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ryan77
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« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2008, 08:12:53 PM » |
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I am perfectly willing to vote for Obama if he is the nominee, but until Hillary is out, as a woman, I cannot turn my back on a woman who could be president. Especially one I respect and admire so much. With all due respect, this kind of thinking is precisely the problem. Voting for Hillary Clinton simply because she is female is no better than refusing to vote for Obama simply because he is black. The Democratic Party, of which I am a proud member, needs to unite around change. And Hillary Clinton represents anything but real change. 1. Hillary Clinton has taken MORE money from Washington Lobbyists and special interest PAC's than any of the Republican candidates. How do explain that? Or better yet, how do you explain yourself? How you can support someone like that? Let alone "respect" and "admire". Puke. Barack Obama has laid down a firm position that his presidency will not be purchased by powerful special interests and has never, and would never, accept a single dime from lobbyists. Now that is something to respect and admire. 2. Hillary Clinton has refused to release their personal income tax returns, or a list of individuals and organizations who have donated to the Clinton Library and Foundation. Why? What is she hiding? Could it be the millions of dollars in special interest money she is taking? 3. Hillary Clinton voted to give George Bush the autorization to go to war in Iraq and then claimed she didn't know he was going to misuse that authorization. Thousands, if not millions, of people had the common sense to see George Bush was an incompotent unstable idiot who shouldn't be given anything close to that kind of power. Barack Obama was one of those people. He knew the war was a bad idea when 90% of the country was in favor of it (including Hillary Clinton) and was willing to stand up and say the war was wrong. Only once the war became unpopular did Hillary Clinton change her mind and decide to be against it. Going whichever way the political wind is blowing is nothing to respect or admire. Barack Obama was right from day one. Now that is truly something to respect and admire. 4. Hillary Clinton only adopted the "change" theme once she saw it was working so well for Obama. Hillary Clinton only began showing the "softer" side of herself once she saw how it helped her win votes in the New Hampshire primary. Hillary Clinton doesn't stand for anything. She stands for whatever she thinks will get her votes. She is willing to say or do whatever it takes to get elected. That is why she can sit there and tell people how she is going to provide universal healthcare for everyone and take on the drug companies and insurance companies while at the same time her largest campaign contributers are healthcare industry lobbyists. Hillary Clinton voters are either voting for her simply because she is a woman, or because they haven't done their research on her and buy into her B.S. lies she is telling them to get elected. |
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ryan77
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« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2008, 08:37:46 PM » |
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You really don't have a grasp on how our system works do you? I have a very firm grasp on the fact that you are talking squarely out of your ass. He's no more "real" or "honest" than the next politician ryan... Oh really? Barack Obama is not more honest than Bob Ney or Duke Cunningham? Barack Obama is no more real and just as big of a phoney as Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton? There's no difference between Jack Abramoff/Tom Delay/Mark Foley/Larry Craig and Barack Obama. No difference? Barack Obama has no more integrity than these guys? In all seriousness, is that really your argument? he just stands for "real" things that you stand for. He just stands for things I stand for? Making America better, restoring its standing in the world community, improving jobs and healthcare, bringing the cost of energy down, etc. etc. etc. These are "just" things "I" stand for? Are you an idiot? Seriously - that's a serious question. After the previous two comments, I feel like I have to ask you that. Nothing you have said thus far makes an ounce of sense or could even be remotely considered an halfway intelligent response. Its all relative. Don't kid yourself, he's not a humanitarian. You don't make your way up through the federal ranks w/ stepping on a few people or things to get up to the top. Okay, well by all means, please list the "people" or "things" Barack Obama had to step on in order to ascertain his highly influential "federal rank" position as Junior frickin freshman Senator. LOL! You are seriously funny! Why even make a comment like that when its so clearly a big loud fart blown out of your ass and absolutely nothing more. And it is a straight marketing pitch. All of messages are. If you say so Einstein. :-) |
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neorealist
Global Moderator
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« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2008, 11:12:26 PM » |
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He obviously has great speech writers and excellent PR people...hook line and sink on u  |
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The man who smiles when things go wrong has thought of someone to blame it on. - Robert Bloch
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Wiglaf
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« Reply #27 on: February 07, 2008, 01:30:01 AM » |
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Can he beat a white man? No.
Your racist BS is getting old already. You didn't answer the question. Can Obama beat a white man? The answer is no... He's already beaten several. |
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. . . sometimes it seems that one has to lean into the wind to stand straight.
James Welch Winter in the Blood
Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution,no law, no court can even do much to save it.
Judge Learned Hand
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Wiglaf
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« Reply #28 on: February 07, 2008, 01:34:44 AM » |
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SouthernPlanter has already proven in just a tiny handful of posts thus far that he is a complete idiot, a troll, or most likely - both.
And I can't show him how I feel about him either! An Error Has Occurred!
Sorry, you can't repeat a karma action without waiting 1 hours. I'm a frequent flier there too. |
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. . . sometimes it seems that one has to lean into the wind to stand straight.
James Welch Winter in the Blood
Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution,no law, no court can even do much to save it.
Judge Learned Hand
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2112$
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« Reply #29 on: February 07, 2008, 07:16:14 AM » |
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I am perfectly willing to vote for Obama if he is the nominee, but until Hillary is out, as a woman, I cannot turn my back on a woman who could be president. Especially one I respect and admire so much. With all due respect, this kind of thinking is precisely the problem. Voting for Hillary Clinton simply because she is female is no better than refusing to vote for Obama simply because he is black. The Democratic Party, of which I am a proud member, needs to unite around change. And Hillary Clinton represents anything but real change. 1. Hillary Clinton has taken MORE money from Washington Lobbyists and special interest PAC's than any of the Republican candidates. How do explain that? Or better yet, how do you explain yourself? How you can support someone like that? Let alone "respect" and "admire". Puke. Barack Obama has laid down a firm position that his presidency will not be purchased by powerful special interests and has never, and would never, accept a single dime from lobbyists. Now that is something to respect and admire. 2. Hillary Clinton has refused to release their personal income tax returns, or a list of individuals and organizations who have donated to the Clinton Library and Foundation. Why? What is she hiding? Could it be the millions of dollars in special interest money she is taking? 3. Hillary Clinton voted to give George Bush the autorization to go to war in Iraq and then claimed she didn't know he was going to misuse that authorization. Thousands, if not millions, of people had the common sense to see George Bush was an incompotent unstable idiot who shouldn't be given anything close to that kind of power. Barack Obama was one of those people. He knew the war was a bad idea when 90% of the country was in favor of it (including Hillary Clinton) and was willing to stand up and say the war was wrong. Only once the war became unpopular did Hillary Clinton change her mind and decide to be against it. Going whichever way the political wind is blowing is nothing to respect or admire. Barack Obama was right from day one. Now that is truly something to respect and admire. 4. Hillary Clinton only adopted the "change" theme once she saw it was working so well for Obama. Hillary Clinton only began showing the "softer" side of herself once she saw how it helped her win votes in the New Hampshire primary. Hillary Clinton doesn't stand for anything. She stands for whatever she thinks will get her votes. She is willing to say or do whatever it takes to get elected. That is why she can sit there and tell people how she is going to provide universal healthcare for everyone and take on the drug companies and insurance companies while at the same time her largest campaign contributers are healthcare industry lobbyists. Hillary Clinton voters are either voting for her simply because she is a woman, or because they haven't done their research on her and buy into her B.S. lies she is telling them to get elected. They're all saying B.S. to get elected. Obama doesn't know anything about the job of being president, no person does until they get there, but good luck to him if he should happen to get elected. I happen to believe that we are all owned by the ruling class, the real money, and that we are not really electing anyone, it's all preplanned. I think our president should be manipulative and in control of the public's perceptions of them. I don't see Obama as change. I see him as getting into the White House and getting nothing accomplished at all because Congress and the actual ruling class will fight him tooth and nail on every issue he wants to change. But it would be great to be proven wrong. I'm entitled to want a woman in charge of the country, even if she's another puppet or insane lunatic (take your choice). It's my vote, my right. |
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