Peis,
 Post a reply with 3 words in it, then re-edit it with your longer text.
I'm looking forward to read you.

Untouchables, your post is noticeably light in proof.  Not one link! 

Peis
Sorry if your name fell under this silly thread name. It came out like this automaticaly when I splitted the thread, because your post is at the top of it. I didn't choose to put your name.

Now for the debate, I find ok for one faction to get help from the US while the other receive an overwhelming support, financialy, military, moraly etc from the arabs (Syria etc).
If nobody helped Fatah, Hamas would control Palestine alone, with no chance ever to have a opposition.

That the US and Israel want regime change makes no doubt at all. It's not even a decision, it goes without saying.
But the very fact that they want a regime change prooves that they are not under occupation. Their regime is still the Hamas regime.
Now, it's like this for Gaza and not sure for the West Bank.
That's why I'm glad to debate.

Sherazad made a good point: It's the jewish colons who are responsible for a big part of the troubles.
Their settlements is an overt provocation. Just like Hamas rockets toward Israel.

lol. World Socialist Web Site.


lol x 10:
"All famous who wrote history were called terrorists!
It was never problem."





Ahk

And "statehood never arrived" Peisi ??  As if it was going to magically appear on it's own without Palestinians (through their leadership) giving up the goal of Israel's elimination and STOPPING THE VIOLENCE AND TERROR against Israel?  (Yes, I know you'd prefer to ignor the other facts, but that doesn't make them go away)

Maybe, Peisi, you can show this forum where/when the Palestinian leadership ACTED in a meaningful way to stop the terror aimed at Israel's destruction, ... and/or gave up there demands of "right of return" (which would affectively destroy Israel)... Can you link the documentation??  Didn't think so.

Palestine (the region), has been under "occupation" of one form or another for hundreds of years.  Prior to Israel having to police the region (for reasons which should now be obvious) , it was under the "occupation" of Jordan and Egypt... Prior to Jordan and Egypt it was under Ottoman/Turkish "occupation" which dated back to 1517.  "Palestinians" (as a unique peoples) have NEVER had autonomy in the region of Palestine... And when given some autonomy, have proven not able to conduct themselves in a peaceful manor with their neighbors (ala Gaza).

Let us not forget, it was the Palestinian people who freely elected Hamas, a terrorist organization.  The people spoke, and are now being "answered".

Palestinians weren't shooting at each other between 1987 - 2007??  Yes, Arafat did a good job of keeping their violence focused on Israel.... and "statehood never arrived".  I seem to recall Arafat walking from the peace table on more than one occation with NOTHING.... yet "statehood never arrived" (HMMMMM)....

...Could it be a coincidence that Palestinian terror never stopped, that Palestinian leadership never formally backed off their demand of a full "right of return" (a demand never conceided to Jews who were forced to flee Arab lands), ... they never actually ACTED in a meaningful way against their inbred terror... and that they recently elected a Terrorist organization into power... THAT couldn't have anything to do with the fact that their "statehood never arrived"... COULD IT??  LOL

Of course you have Peisi.... Keep telling yourself you've proven that,... when the reality is you've yet to. (You seem to have a habbit of throwing facts up, while purposely ignoring other relevant facts... This is why your "opinions" (based on purposeful ignorance to facts which don't fit your agenda) of often radically biased and exposed as such.

The REASON there's only been one suicide bombing lately IS NOT because of lack of desire, or a change in goals... iT'S because of the wall (which the Pals hate so much)....The wall keeps the wouldbe terrorists out.  Before the wall was close to being complete...WHERE did the majority of suicide bombings take place??  YOU GUESSED IT... in areas where the wall wasn't complete.  ... Pretty basic really....  And HOW did the suicide bombers get into Israel this time??  Need we go through that??  lol

Who was it again the Palestinians ELECTED into power??  A terrorist organization who's actively smuggling arms and firing daily rockets at Israel... HMMM (yet you've somehow proven some point??  lol)

Yes Peisi...I take long breaks... and come back to you spewing the same old nonsense... IGNORING the facts you don't want to see, and making claims you then refuse to rationally back up while examining ALL the relevant facts... And occasionally claiming you've previously made some point, you haven't (or maybe you can link/direct me to the post or posts where you've somehow PROVEN this??  ... Didn't think so)... Same old non-sense.

Long before Israeli occupation there was Palestinian/Arab violence.  When Israel pulls back from "occupying", you get "GAZA".... ANY QUESTIONS??  lol

AND YES, Palestinian statehood never "arrived".... And Hamas continues it's daily barrage of missles aimed at Israeli population bases... hmmm... Imagine that.


This forum should also notice how you PURPOSELY AVOIDED ANSWERING for what I directly asked you with regard to the subject... "

I asked you:

No links, no documentation (which, if existed, should be easily linked)... Just a personal opinion of " what they said informally was more important".(??)..... LOL... Laughable......

If the Palestinians (through their leadership) truly want peace they need to BEGIN BY ACTING TO STOP THEIR INBRED TERROR.  Until a willingness to ACT is demonstrated by Palestinian leadership against such entities, the process can go nowhere.  At the present time, the PA DOESN'T EVEN CONTROL a big portion of the region they want to make part of their state.  That region is run and controlled by a terrorist group who openly advocate Israel's destruction... They're not going away without a fight, and there can be no peace while they're allowed to continue their terrorist activities... Talk is fine, but meaningless without ACTION... When is Abbas going to ACT? As I recall, he was recently OFFERED an international peacekeeping forces to assist...but quickly refused such help..... hmmmm 

"Gaza" is what happens when Israel withdraws.... Until the Palestinian leadership can actively demonstrate why we should believe anything different would happen if Israel were give Palestinian leadership more autonomy,.... the answer should be clear.

Realityman, where do u get this energy for the endless moral reprimands and mentor-style slaps on the wrist? We had a debate, we made our arguments and both declared victories. If u're interested, invite the forum to cast a vote on who was the winner. Save your time accusing me of "purposefully ignoring".



i wasn't speaking of lately. I spoke of the 90s and 2000s, and the period of quiet broken after Hamas declared Hudna, and Sharon's actions that brought that quiet to the end.


maybe they hate it because it runs through their land. Build your wall on your border. How do u see the US building the wall to stop Mexican bordercrossing and annexing in the process 10% of Mexican territory?



and whom did Israelis elect into power? Annexationists who actively occupy Occupied Palestinian Territories, and actively declare "eternal" annexations of Occupied Palestinian Territories. And actively build walls in the Occupied Palestinian Territories.


no, they don't need to stop their inbred inherent innate terror because this terror is their only means of putting pressure on Israel. Will YOU be putting pressure on Israel when the terror stops? I don't think so. Not you, and not the UN, and not UNESCO or EU or Guatemala or Buggs Bunny and AIPAC, are going to pressure Israel into leaving the Occupied Palestinian Territories. Only Palestinian terrorists can do that, and HAVE DONE THAT. Once terror stops, Israel no longer has any incenstives to make "concessions", and the "Land for Peace" formula is dead because Israel already has peace, and needs not to pay for it with land.