Ahkenaten
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« on: February 11, 2008, 09:50:15 AM » |
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Okay some of you may remember from a while back stories about Pakistan Army being kidnapped a hundred or more at a time in Peshawar, NWFP and the area. They were kidnapped without a single shot being fired, which of course doesn't maake any sense at all. You could kidnap 100 school children, maybe even police but not 100+ soldiers on multiple occastions without getting someone killed. So there's something odd there. Next we have this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7239555.stmPakistani ambassador goes missing
Pakistan's ambassador to Afghanistan has gone missing before he was due to cross into Afghanistan from Pakistan. Sources have told the BBC that the ambassador, Tariq Azizuddin, was kidnapped in the Khyber tribal agency close to the Afghan border.
The Pakistani embassy in Kabul says contact was lost with Mr Azizuddin at around 1045 local time (0645 GMT).
Many areas in the border regions between Afghanistan and Pakistan are strongholds of pro-Taleban militants.
The BBC's Alastair Leithead in Afghanistan says that police in Pakistan's Khyber Agency said they believed that Mr Azizuddin had been kidnapped.
There were reports on Pakistani television of his car going through a checkpoint without stopping.
The border areas are militant strongholds Hundreds of people have been kidnapped in the dangerous border region in recent years - four Pakistani Red Cross workers went missing in the same area a few days ago.
Our correspondent says that apart from roads, the Khyber Agency is outside the control of the Pakistani government.
Security officials told the Reuters news agency that the envoy was due to have changed cars at the border, but did not reach the frontier.
Pakistani foreign office Spokesman Muhammad Sadiq said that Mr Azizuddin was going to Kabul from Peshawar by road when he disappeared.
"We are looking into the matter and at this stage we cannot deny or confirm the kidnapping of the ambassador," he said.
Correspondents say the disappearance highlights continuing instability in nuclear-armed Pakistan - a key ally in the US-led "war on terror" - with important parliamentary polls just one week away.
Okay so what's wrong with this story? There's something here that sticks out, that doesn't fit, just like a story about 100 Pakistan Army soldiers getting 'captured' without a shot. Can anyone guess? Ahk |
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« Last Edit: February 11, 2008, 09:52:17 AM by Ahkenaten »
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Terry Mathis
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« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2008, 10:28:06 AM » |
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Ahk, The Tribal Mullahs (around 12 I think) run a 'country within a country' in NW Pakistan and the Pakistani government can do nothing there, as you have seen them exert their power over the Pakistani government occasionally. The 'kidnapping' of several hundred Paki soldiers every now and then is just a not so subtle reminder as to who controls the area. They'll give back the troops and ambassador eventually and may even give them a 'gift' of an out of favour Taliban leader.. As far as 'shooting' or fighting, the Paki soldiers aren't stupid. They want to live.  -Terry |
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« Last Edit: February 11, 2008, 10:30:20 AM by Terry Mathis »
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Its not what they say that bothers me, its what they say that just aint so that does ! - Will Rogers So that we may end the oppression wrought by our own hands.
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Ahkenaten
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« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2008, 11:00:36 AM » |
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What sticks out to me is this guy is an ambassador.
Since when do ambassadors drive between capitals?
Since when do they drive between capitals through at least the 2nd or 3rd most dangerous road in the world? Certainly that's the number one most dangerous road for a Pakistan ambassador at the moment.
"Pakistani foreign office Spokesman Muhammad Sadiq said that Mr Azizuddin was going to Kabul from Peshawar by road when he disappeared. "
This sticks out. It doesn't really fit. Convenience is not a reason here because no one ever considers it more "convenient" to travel the most dangerous way.
Ahk
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« Last Edit: February 11, 2008, 11:04:46 AM by Ahkenaten »
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Terry Mathis
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« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2008, 11:05:01 AM » |
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What sticks out to me is this guy is an ambassador.
Since when do ambassadors drive between capitals?
Since when do they drive between capitals through at least the 2nd or 3rd most dangerous road in the world? Certainly that's the number one most dangerous road for a Pakistan ambassador at the moment.
This sticks out. One of these things doesn't belong.
Ahk
Pakistan is in a mess right now, and the US is worried. Justifiably so since they have between 15-20 Nukes.  -Terry |
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Its not what they say that bothers me, its what they say that just aint so that does ! - Will Rogers So that we may end the oppression wrought by our own hands.
- Shulman |
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Peisithanatos
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« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2008, 12:49:27 PM » |
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so what's the spin? Pak government secretly collaborates with Taliban by framing its officials or staging a kidnapping? Pak government consists of idiots who go for a walk in world's most dangerous neighborhoods?
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a big pile of bs covered with a thick layer of sugar
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Fredledingue
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« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2008, 01:13:15 PM » |
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Desertion? Runaway ambassador?
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Ahkenaten
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« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2008, 01:30:09 PM » |
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so what's the spin? Pak government secretly collaborates with Taliban by framing its officials or staging a kidnapping? Pak government consists of idiots who go for a walk in world's most dangerous neighborhoods? Well i was planning on leaving the "spinning" to you. Unlike some I do not try to imply something I cannot prove or at least point to multiple instances of damning circumstantial evidence before I do. Unlike some I do not perceive reality based on, "That Sounds Right To Me." I am asking an honest question because this detail stands out when I read it. Got a problem with that? Figures. Or does that seem normal to you? Someone says, "Hey lets send our ambassador to Kabul. Make sure we've got animal crackers and that you go pee pee now because it's a long winding road through Peshawar.", and then someone else looks at that and says, "Yep. Sounds like a good plan". Never mind. I'm not really interested in your answer. To the rational and the honest out there: Can any of you think of an instance where an ambassador travels cross country to get between capitals? Even the poorest nation pretty much flies them everywhere right? Ahk |
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« Last Edit: February 11, 2008, 01:38:20 PM by Ahkenaten »
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Terry Mathis
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« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2008, 01:39:07 PM » |
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so what's the spin? Pak government secretly collaborates with Taliban by framing its officials or staging a kidnapping? Pak government consists of idiots who go for a walk in world's most dangerous neighborhoods? Unlike some I do not try to imply something I cannot prove or at least point to multiple instances of damning circumstantial evidence before I do. Unlike some I do not perceive reality based on, "That Sounds Right To Me." I am asking an honest question because this detail stands out when I read it. Got a problem with that? Figures. Or does that seem normal to you? Someone says, "Hey lets send our ambassador to Kabul. Make sure we've got animal crackers and that you go pee pee now because it's a long winding road through Peshawar.", and then someone else looks at that and says, "Yep. Sounds like a good plan". Never mind. I'm not really interested in your answer. To the rational and the honest out there: Can any of you think of an instance where an ambassador travels cross country to get between capitals? Even the poorest nation pretty much flies them everywhere right? Ahk Either airlines don't fly from Pakistan to Afghanistan, or perhaps the place the Ambassador was going was close and didn't have an airport Ahk. He most certainly (unless he was a fool) had quite a security detail and/or Army units escorting him. I think it was the size of his entourage that dictated land travel myself. -Terry |
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Its not what they say that bothers me, its what they say that just aint so that does ! - Will Rogers So that we may end the oppression wrought by our own hands.
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Ahkenaten
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« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2008, 02:00:39 PM » |
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Kabul has an airport. trust me.
But certainly there's a whole range of "coulda's" we're not privy too, it's true.
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« Last Edit: February 11, 2008, 02:02:20 PM by Ahkenaten »
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Jericoacoara
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« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2008, 02:08:27 PM » |
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To the rational and the honest out there: Can any of you think of an instance where an ambassador travels cross country to get between capitals? Even the poorest nation pretty much flies them everywhere right?
Ahk
Its a good thread. It does seem a hell of a risk the guy was taken given the importance of his position and theremore the more collateral his kidnapping would give. The impression I got from reading the article was that he was a bit of a risk taker, who had travelled that route before and gotten away with it, so thought he would take the chance again, to save time. Maybe he was a lazy bastard or was under time constraints for his appointment so he took this route in preference to the longer safer one. It does seem puzzling though, given the high number of kidnappings that have taken place along that route. Here is a few paragraphs with possiblities of reasons why he may have taken this route. The route through the agency is believed to be the shortest and quickest way between Peshawar, the Pakistani border city in North West Frontier Province (NWFP) and Kabul.
Being the main trade route, the Khyber agency road is busy in daylight hours, and is a major route supplying reinforcements and supplies to the US and Nato forces in Afghanistan.
The border areas are militant strongholds
It is also one of the most protected of all the tribal roads, with a contingent of tribal police posted every 100m. The paramilitary Frontier Corps have a fort along the road. I don't really agree with the explanations though. It still seems risky bordering on recklessness. |
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Jericoacoara
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« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2008, 02:33:38 PM » |
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He most certainly (unless he was a fool) had quite a security detail and/or Army units escorting him.
-Terry
Terry, the guy travelled on his own because the thought an entourage would make him more conspicious. Usually Pakistan ambassadors get given a minder to travel to Afghanistan but this guy preferred to do without it. The fact that his guy travelled alone and had done that route without incident a number of times, actually supports Ahk's view IMO, that something is fishy. If I was going to fake a kidnapping, that is the way I would do it, establish a pattern of no incident, have the warlords arrange safe passage for me, then one day get kidnapped. Then upon my return to Pakistan when I am handed over, I can always use the excuse "Well it worked for me in the past". |
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« Last Edit: February 11, 2008, 04:30:52 PM by Jericoacoara »
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The greatest tragedy is for a person to die with the music still within them.
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Ahkenaten
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« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2008, 01:17:47 PM » |
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Thanks for the comments Jeri. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7240414.stmTwo employees of Pakistan's atomic energy agency have been abducted in the country's restive north-western region abutting the Afghan border, police say.
The technicians went missing on the same day as Pakistan's ambassador to Afghanistan, Tariq Azizuddin, was reportedly abducted in the same region.
Mr Azizuddin had been going overland from the city of Peshawar to Kabul.
Pakistan's north-west has witnessed fierce fighting between Islamist militants and government troops.
The pro-Taleban guerrillas declared a unilateral ceasefire last week after months of clashes with troops garrisoned there.
The workers from Pakistan's Atomic Energy Commission were on a mission to map mineral deposits in the mountains when they were kidnapped, police say.
"The technicians were going for some geological survey in the area when they were kidnapped at gunpoint along with their driver," Romail Akram, a senior police official, told Reuters news agency.
Nothign odd or disconcerting about this update  Related to the ambassador: An official of the Khyber agency tribal administration told the BBC that the ambassador went through the Khyber agency without taking a security escort that was waiting for him at the start of the tribal territory.
Correspondents say that such escorts are routinely sent with dignitaries and officials when they travel through tribal areas.
Ahk |
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« Last Edit: February 14, 2008, 03:21:47 PM by Ahkenaten »
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Terry Mathis
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« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2008, 01:58:57 PM » |
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Yes, I read that several days ago.. the Tribes want to exchange them for some of their Mullahs that have been captured by the Pakistani Army.  -Terry |
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Its not what they say that bothers me, its what they say that just aint so that does ! - Will Rogers So that we may end the oppression wrought by our own hands.
- Shulman |
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Ahkenaten
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« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2008, 02:07:28 PM » |
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Oh really? I didnt know it happened a while back. How long back?
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Terry Mathis
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« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2008, 02:14:10 PM » |
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Oh really? I didnt know it happened a while back. How long back?
Couple ,three days. Google news is my homepage so I harvest it several times a day. -Terry |
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Its not what they say that bothers me, its what they say that just aint so that does ! - Will Rogers So that we may end the oppression wrought by our own hands.
- Shulman |
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