Patton
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« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2008, 10:51:43 AM » |
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Why couldn't He have put Evolution in place as an adaptive mechanism for species to use over long expanses of time?
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Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best; it removes all that is base. All men are afraid in battle. The coward is the one who lets his fear overcome his sense of duty. Duty is the essence of manhood
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Abraxas
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« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2008, 07:07:10 PM » |
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If God was concerned with our adaptation, why wouldn't He just intervene as necessary?
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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like its from Neptune.
- Noam Chomsky
... you can almost see the high water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
- Hunter S. Thompson
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Patton
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« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2008, 08:06:02 PM » |
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If God was concerned with our adaptation, why wouldn't He just intervene as necessary?
He has........Evolution. |
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Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best; it removes all that is base. All men are afraid in battle. The coward is the one who lets his fear overcome his sense of duty. Duty is the essence of manhood
-George S. Patton
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Abraxas
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« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2008, 08:38:13 PM » |
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But Evolution is natrual adaptation.
Are you saying that the random mutations in DNA that make Natrual Selection work are made by God?
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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like its from Neptune.
- Noam Chomsky
... you can almost see the high water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
- Hunter S. Thompson
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Patton
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« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2008, 08:47:41 PM » |
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But Evolution is natrual adaptation.
Are you saying that the random mutations in DNA that make Natrual Selection work are made by God?
Let me get this straight....you're asking a known Christian whether things/processes in nature come from God? I'll let you think about that for a moment. |
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Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best; it removes all that is base. All men are afraid in battle. The coward is the one who lets his fear overcome his sense of duty. Duty is the essence of manhood
-George S. Patton
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Abraxas
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« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2008, 08:59:24 PM » |
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But mutations specifically?
Doesn't genetics kinda prove that mutations are the result of combining two different strands of DNA to make a new one? That these random mutations are the subatomic re-arrangement of amino acids and nucleotides?
I mean, if you want to view God in that, then fine... but I just see... the re-arrangement of amino acids and nucleotides...
Maybe it's cause I'm atheist.
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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like its from Neptune.
- Noam Chomsky
... you can almost see the high water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
- Hunter S. Thompson
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Patton
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« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2008, 04:17:02 AM » |
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It is because you're an atheist...but that's OK.
Sometimes analogies help....lets say God created the Kitchen...and this Kitchen is perfectly stocked with every conceivable ingredient with a stovetop, convection oven, microwave, freezer, etc.....any combination of these ingredients....any "rearrangement" due to heating or cooking or freezing....any dish....would ALL be the result of God having provided the ingredients and appliances to create it.
That help?
Sometimes you have to think outside the box....I have to do it in order to try and understand where atheists are coming from time to time.......
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Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best; it removes all that is base. All men are afraid in battle. The coward is the one who lets his fear overcome his sense of duty. Duty is the essence of manhood
-George S. Patton
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Abraxas
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« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2008, 09:03:28 AM » |
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So you're just saying God created nucleotides and amino-acids, which combine to create mutations which help us adapt to our enviroments which all help to kinda make Natrual Selection plausable?
Ok. That's simple enough - if not overly simple.
Everything kinda hedges on the fact that God created everything, though, doesn't it?
And I guess this is the fendemental difference between Atheists and the religous. We simply can't accept that concept...
I imagine at this point the debate has pretty much run its course?
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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like its from Neptune.
- Noam Chomsky
... you can almost see the high water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
- Hunter S. Thompson
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Callum
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« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2008, 10:08:44 AM » |
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Yea the debate becomes rather superfluous when the theist can only agree that the naturalist has everything right, except for the 'fact' that 'thats how god intended it'.
It rather then avoids questions about (a) how they can possibly know this (oops, sorry, god intended them to) and (b) if god made all the rules, why does he break them with miracles? Doesn't that make it inconsistent, which is a counter-indication of perfection (you have to believe in 'perfection' of course)?
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Patton
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« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2008, 11:01:22 AM » |
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Yea the debate becomes rather superfluous when the theist can only agree that the naturalist has everything right, except for the 'fact' that 'thats how god intended it'. What about Abiogenesis do the naturalists have right? |
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« Last Edit: March 13, 2008, 11:15:55 AM by Patton »
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Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best; it removes all that is base. All men are afraid in battle. The coward is the one who lets his fear overcome his sense of duty. Duty is the essence of manhood
-George S. Patton
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IamMe
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« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2008, 01:13:31 PM » |
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Yea the debate becomes rather superfluous when the theist can only agree that the naturalist has everything right, except for the 'fact' that 'thats how god intended it'. What about Abiogenesis do the naturalists have right? Interesting that you leap for the one remaining gap in our picture of how life formed. So it is your contention that God is capable of having created everything in the universe: amino acids, nucleotides etc. assembled them together into elementary life yet he needed evolution to make people? You really are stretching credibility here. |
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\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell
If you strike me down I shall become more dead than you can ever imagine.
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Patton
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« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2008, 07:31:42 PM » |
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Needed?
Or chose.
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Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best; it removes all that is base. All men are afraid in battle. The coward is the one who lets his fear overcome his sense of duty. Duty is the essence of manhood
-George S. Patton
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IamMe
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« Reply #27 on: March 14, 2008, 11:42:17 AM » |
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Needed?
Or chose.
Why would he choose it if he didn't need it? Why choose the long drawn-out million-year process over the quick one? |
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\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell
If you strike me down I shall become more dead than you can ever imagine.
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Callum
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« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2008, 01:43:21 AM » |
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Needed?
Or chose.
Why would he choose it if he didn't need it? Why choose the long drawn-out million-year process over the quick one? FFS Me!! You just don't get it do you? God cannot be known You cannot, must not enquire about anything that has been 'revealed' or you are guilty of blasphemy. (Unless of course you need the benefits of all the previous blasphemous enquiries and theorising such as biochemistry, antisepsis, anaesthesia, CT, MRI, sewage systems, crop management, transport sytems, information systems, etc etc ... dammit, even alphabetic writing! - what has 'science' ever done for us....?) Everything is for a purpose AND YOU MUSTN'T ASK WHAT IT IS. Even the fact that we mustn't ask, but when we do and find that we were misled - thats for a purpose. But don't ask. |
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IamMe
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« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2008, 03:02:28 PM » |
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Needed?
Or chose.
Why would he choose it if he didn't need it? Why choose the long drawn-out million-year process over the quick one? FFS Me!! You just don't get it do you? God cannot be known You cannot, must not enquire about anything that has been 'revealed' or you are guilty of blasphemy. (Unless of course you need the benefits of all the previous blasphemous enquiries and theorising such as biochemistry, antisepsis, anaesthesia, CT, MRI, sewage systems, crop management, transport sytems, information systems, etc etc ... dammit, even alphabetic writing! - what has 'science' ever done for us....?) Everything is for a purpose AND YOU MUSTN'T ASK WHAT IT IS. Even the fact that we mustn't ask, but when we do and find that we were misled - thats for a purpose. But don't ask.  The thing is, Patton has just declared that God created life by a process equivalent to setting off a bomb in a supermarket to make a salad. The only answer he really has left is "mysterious ways". |
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\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell
If you strike me down I shall become more dead than you can ever imagine.
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