Factinista
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« on: February 13, 2008, 10:31:46 AM » |
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All this balogna about video game violence causing real life violence has made me wonder what the real relationship is between games and violence. (I recently overheard a debate on this between a parent and child) Dispite teen violence being at a 30 year low people continue to propigate this dribble...
It seems to me that mankind has been violent and criminal to each other for tens of thousands of years without the aid of video games, so one has to wonder if there really is a corelation between violence and games. The very weak corelation that some scientists have shown has been used by politically correct nutjobs to imply that video games cause violence. If these statistics are true it does not imply causation however, I think i've come across another hypothesis.
Violence in real life causes the violence in video games!
If there is any causation between video games and the amount of violence they depict then it is that they are based on real life ideas and events that exist within the public consciousness. The myriad of World War II video games stem from the single greatest moment of glory for Americans and with the onset of new conflicts there are new video games to depict them. The explosion of the Grand Theft Auto series can be seen as a comentary on the degredation of culture and community within American cities. I doubt anyone would make the case that GTA 3 caused the rise of prison culture. Video games like Doom and Gears of War play off of innate emotions like fear and aggression.
Video games are a byproduct of society, not a cause.
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Terry Mathis
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« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2008, 10:54:10 AM » |
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Factinista, I think for the most part you are right.
Having said that, too many children are using games not appropriate for their age group and thus get a very wrong impression of real life, death, killing and such. IMHO
-Terry
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Its not what they say that bothers me, its what they say that just aint so that does ! - Will Rogers So that we may end the oppression wrought by our own hands.
- Shulman |
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Factinista
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« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2008, 12:02:11 PM » |
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Factinista, I think for the most part you are right.
Having said that, too many children are using games not appropriate for their age group and thus get a very wrong impression of real life, death, killing and such. IMHO
-Terry
agreed there is no reason for 10 year old children to be playing Doom |
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Perrin
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« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2008, 12:49:52 PM » |
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Are you kidding, those 10 year olds can kick my ass at UT. I say we stop them all so I have a chance again.  |
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A fanatic is one who can’t change his mind and won’t change the subject.
In America, anyone can be president. That\\\'s one of the risks you take.
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Terry Mathis
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« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2008, 01:43:29 PM » |
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Are you kidding, those 10 year olds can kick my ass at UT. I say we stop them all so I have a chance again. But what are they learning about reality? I mean, they come away with the concept of that is how the real world works. 'Virtual reality' does not exist as well as being 'unreal' (pardon the pun). -Terry |
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Its not what they say that bothers me, its what they say that just aint so that does ! - Will Rogers So that we may end the oppression wrought by our own hands.
- Shulman |
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IamMe
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« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2008, 01:58:22 PM » |
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But what are they learning about reality?
Who cares? |
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\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell
If you strike me down I shall become more dead than you can ever imagine.
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Terry Mathis
High Society
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Karma: +56/-92
Posts: 1,234
Goulburn NSW Australia Dual Australian/U.S.
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« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2008, 02:22:44 PM » |
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But what are they learning about reality?
Who cares? You do obviously, judging by your avatar.. there's nothing left!  |
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Its not what they say that bothers me, its what they say that just aint so that does ! - Will Rogers So that we may end the oppression wrought by our own hands.
- Shulman |
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Abraxas
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"You do not speak for the rest"
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« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2008, 02:49:35 AM » |
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Are you kidding, those 10 year olds can kick my ass at UT. I say we stop them all so I have a chance again. But what are they learning about reality? I mean, they come away with the concept of that is how the real world works. 'Virtual reality' does not exist as well as being 'unreal' (pardon the pun). -Terry I think you're making the broad assumption that kids today can't dissociate reality from virtual reality. I think this is a mistake. You said youself that video games don't promote violence (which I totally agree with)... so why pretend like we have an epidemic of kids trapped by video games? I think people just get obsessed and find little reason to join the real world when they are even happier in the virtual one. I'm talking about WoW players here. It's not that they don't know better... it's just games today play to a different drum. It's all about user interface and making it more "real" because some kids don't like the real world much. Granted, it's a small fraction of gamers, but I think your reasoning is flawed when you try to diagnose their problem. And if you incorectly diagnose the problem you can't possibly find the propper antidote. |
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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like its from Neptune.
- Noam Chomsky
... you can almost see the high water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
- Hunter S. Thompson
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Terry Mathis
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« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2008, 03:02:15 AM » |
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Are you kidding, those 10 year olds can kick my ass at UT. I say we stop them all so I have a chance again. But what are they learning about reality? I mean, they come away with the concept of that is how the real world works. 'Virtual reality' does not exist as well as being 'unreal' (pardon the pun). -Terry I think you're making the broad assumption that kids today can't dissociate reality from virtual reality. I think this is a mistake. You said youself that video games don't promote violence (which I totally agree with)... so why pretend like we have an epidemic of kids trapped by video games? I think people just get obsessed and find little reason to join the real world when they are even happier in the virtual one. I'm talking about WoW players here. It's not that they don't know better... it's just games today play to a different drum. It's all about user interface and making it more "real" because some kids don't like the real world much. Granted, it's a small fraction of gamers, but I think your reasoning is flawed when you try to diagnose their problem. And if you incorectly diagnose the problem you can't possibly find the propper antidote. I strongly disagree. How can an eight or ten year old distinguish between reality and virtual? I remember a case in Chicago where the Police said it IS a real problem, forcing them to have to choose between shooting a child or getting killed themselves. Just because you obviously are a gamer, albeit an OLDER one, you cannot possibly make your judgement stick when it comes to a child.. _Terry |
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Its not what they say that bothers me, its what they say that just aint so that does ! - Will Rogers So that we may end the oppression wrought by our own hands.
- Shulman |
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Abraxas
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"You do not speak for the rest"
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« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2008, 03:10:05 AM » |
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I strongly disagree. How can an eight or ten year old distinguish between reality and virtual? I remember a case in Chicago where the Police said it IS a real problem, forcing them to have to choose between shooting a child or getting killed themselves. Can you expand on this? I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say. Just because you obviously are a gamer, albeit an OLDER one, you cannot possibly make your judgement stick when it comes to a child.. I've grown up with games ALL my life, so while I may be older, I remember MANY, MANY, MANY days when I was 9 playing "007: Golden Eye" (BEST GAME EVER MADE!!!!) with my friends on the N64. I remember blasting my friends with AK-47s, rocket launchers, lasers and Couger Magnums. We never confused the virtual world with the real world. We just liked the virtual one better. |
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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like its from Neptune.
- Noam Chomsky
... you can almost see the high water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
- Hunter S. Thompson
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Terry Mathis
High Society
Hero Member
Karma: +56/-92
Posts: 1,234
Goulburn NSW Australia Dual Australian/U.S.
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« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2008, 03:20:26 AM » |
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What I am trying to say is that it is a very real problem with children playing violent games above their age, so much so that Police departments are having issues with it.
As a leader, you should NOT recommend that children play games designed for a more mature user. That would be irresponsible IMHO.
Regards
Terry
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Its not what they say that bothers me, its what they say that just aint so that does ! - Will Rogers So that we may end the oppression wrought by our own hands.
- Shulman |
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Abraxas
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"You do not speak for the rest"
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« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2008, 03:24:57 AM » |
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What I am trying to say is that it is a very real problem with children playing violent games above their age, so much so that Police departments are having issues with it. I think these concerns are contrived, personally. As a leader, you should NOT recommend that children play games designed for a more mature user. That would be irresponsible IMHO. As a "leader" I'm not gonna lie in order to placate a false idea that video games promote violence. Will I keep my kid away? Probably. I think every parent should, but I'm not gonna be a video game Nazi because people don't understand the real problems. |
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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like its from Neptune.
- Noam Chomsky
... you can almost see the high water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
- Hunter S. Thompson
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Terry Mathis
High Society
Hero Member
Karma: +56/-92
Posts: 1,234
Goulburn NSW Australia Dual Australian/U.S.
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« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2008, 03:34:05 AM » |
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What I am trying to say is that it is a very real problem with children playing violent games above their age, so much so that Police departments are having issues with it. I think these concerns are contrived, personally. As a leader, you should NOT recommend that children play games designed for a more mature user. That would be irresponsible IMHO. As a "leader" I'm not gonna lie in order to placate a false idea that video games promote violence. Will I keep my kid away? Probably. I think every parent should, but I'm not gonna be a video game Nazi because people don't understand the real problems. Abraxas, I'll just have to agree to disagree. Personally you cannot compare yourself with 99.9% of the children out there. After all, why do the games have ratings? Because there have been problems. I find your viewpoint reprehensible and unsubstantiated. If you were a responsible parent, you would know better. G'Day Terry |
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Its not what they say that bothers me, its what they say that just aint so that does ! - Will Rogers So that we may end the oppression wrought by our own hands.
- Shulman |
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Abraxas
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Karma: +207/-203
Posts: 3,924
"You do not speak for the rest"
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« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2008, 04:03:06 AM » |
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Abraxas, I'll just have to agree to disagree. Personally you cannot compare yourself with 99.9% of the children out there. After all, why do the games have ratings? Because there have been problems. Actually, it was because Sen. Leiberman thought there was a degredation of morality because of games like Mortal Kombat and Doom. The religous movement of that time is also responcible for blaming music for the way kids acted. What cracks me up is that these people are too stupid to realize the same thing was said about them when they were kids. It's all one self-sustaining circle of ignorace and senility. I also don't understand why I can't compare myself to other children. In fact, I think I'm a far better judge of my own era then someone else... but hey... what do I know? I only grew up during the console era...  I find your viewpoint reprehensible and unsubstantiated. If you were a responsible parent, you would know better. Unsubstantiated? Prove to me that games promote violence. |
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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like its from Neptune.
- Noam Chomsky
... you can almost see the high water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
- Hunter S. Thompson
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Terry Mathis
High Society
Hero Member
Karma: +56/-92
Posts: 1,234
Goulburn NSW Australia Dual Australian/U.S.
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« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2008, 04:06:40 AM » |
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I already have, you don't listen (read).  |
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Its not what they say that bothers me, its what they say that just aint so that does ! - Will Rogers So that we may end the oppression wrought by our own hands.
- Shulman |
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