Fuck Democracy.  Long live the Republic. 

Gojira, I'm trying to figure your remarks out. I thought to myself, is this some sort of Star Wars reference to Palpatine's Republic, or are you really referring to the U.S. republic? If it's the latter, you've completely misread this thread. I don't advocate a pure democracy. That's mob rule and worthy of your blue comments. But there are democratic features of republics like ours -- for instance, elections and majority-rule legislative votes. That's why republics are considered a form of democracy. See Webster: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/democracy.

Thanks for asking. My point relates to what it was the Founders thought they were creating. Relatively light reading of their words makes it crystal clear that nowhere in their creation did they envision a place for political parties. Representative democracy, in their eyes, was very different from the corrupting influences that control our elections and government today. This is the way it was supposed to work:

1) Voters in each district elected a representative in an open election where all candidates of all stripes and viewpoints ran against each other. No "filtering down" of candidates for a general election ballot by minorities of the electorate (party primaries). No national referendums for party control of the legislature. Nobody from other districts and states (party leaders) applying pressure to incumbents through various methods of discipline. Just pure clean elections out of which a people's rep was chosen.

2) In the legislative body, that newly-chosen rep carries a "bag" of issue positions upon which he was elected. In deliberation with reps from other districts on specific issues, coalitions of reps would form and if they got a majority of votes, the measure would pass. On the very next issue up for debate, a completely different coalition of reps would form.

Parties artificially form coalitions of people with similar, restricted bags of issue positions and control the electoral process to limit the possible choices. So if you had 10 issues with two possible positions each (A and B), parties restrict your choices to:

Party A candidate: 1-A, 2-A, 3-A, 4-A, 5-A, 6-A, 7-A, 8-A, 9-A, 10-A (A supposedly being some amorphous "conservative" ideology)
Party B candidate: 1-B, 2-B, 3-B, 4-B, 5-B, 6-B, 7-B, 8-B, 9-B, 10-B (B supposedly being some amorphous "liberal" ideology)

The Founders foresaw elections with the following kinds of candidates:

Candidate S: 1-A, 2-B, 3-B, 4-A, 5-A, 6-B, 7-A, 8-A, 9-A, 10-B
Candidate T: 1-B, 2-A, 3-B, 4-B, 5-B, 6-B, 7-B, 8-B, 9-B, 10-B
Candidate U: 1-B, 2-A, 3-A, 4-A, 5-A, 6-A, 7-A, 8-A, 9-A, 10-B
Candidate V: 1-A, 2-B, 3-B, 4-B, 5-A, 6-B, 7-B, 8-B, 9-B, 10-B
Candidate W: 1-B, 2-B, 3-B, 4-B, 5-B, 6-B, 7-B, 8-B, 9-B, 10-B
Candidate X: 1-B, 2-A, 3-A, 4-B, 5-B, 6-B, 7-B, 8-B, 9-A, 10-B
Candidate Y: 1-A, 2-A, 3-A, 4-A, 5-A, 6-A, 7-A, 8-A, 9-A, 10-A
Candidate Z: 1-A, 2-A, 3-A, 4-A, 5-A, 6-A 7-A, 8-A, 9-A, 10-A

A real election with choices. The haggling and true representation would occur in the legislative body ON AN ISSUE-BY-ISSUE BASIS.

Parties are the most un-democratic institution in our government. Most citizens have been brainwashed to think that parties are part of government, where they actually could be excised pretty cleanly ... and magically, representative democracy would appear.

What is Social Fascism? Nationalization of the economy, massive public works, isolationism in foreign affairs and love of our nation above all. It is not Nazism or genocide.

Probably not achievable (at least in our lifetime).

OswaldTheOsprey

Oswald, thanks for the clarification. I think you are swimming upstream with those thoughts. The world is moving historically to more personal freedom, and that concept has evolved from "directed" thought to more individual views. Don't think that "genie" will ever go back into the bottle ...

Perhaps not. However, I will stay with what I believe-popular or unpopular.

OswaldTheOsprey

Voting for representatives to vote on your behalf is not exactly democracy to begin with.

It is just one democratic-like process applied to a system of elite rule for the purpose of implying 'symbolic' permission of the governed.

If you seek more democracy, then refining the process of appointing elite representatives is the last thing you should be concerned with.