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Author Topic: Can a robot be human?  (Read 1551 times)
IamMe
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« on: February 17, 2008, 02:35:03 PM »

I recently read a review of a book about unresolved questions in philosophy. One mentioned was "Can a robot be human?"

My thoughts:

According to biological definitions, a human is a member of the species Homo sapiens and a species is a group of individuals capable of interbreeding. So if we make a robot capable of producing human sperm we're set, right?

Most people wouldn't agree, however. This is probably to do with intelligence - a sperm machine is not human because it doesn't have human intelligence. One test in AI (whose name I forget) is that if a human could not tell the difference (in conversation) between a computer and a real human we would declare that true artificial intelligence. So, if we crack that, do we then have a human?

I would say no. A robot might be indistinguishable from a human but it is not human. Fundamentally, computers do not think like humans - they think in binary logic. If they appear human that is simply a convincing illusion, not true human intelligence.
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Patton
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« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2008, 05:08:38 AM »

"What" something "is" is based on DNA......if the robot has human DNA, then it is surely human...
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« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2008, 02:14:33 PM »

"What" something "is" is based on DNA......if the robot has human DNA, then it is surely human...

But then what exactly is the difference, the thing that makes it a robot?
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« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2008, 07:47:12 AM »

"What" something "is" is based on DNA......if the robot has human DNA, then it is surely human...

But then what exactly is the difference, the thing that makes it a robot?

-Absence of flesh, bone, brain, kidney, liver, etc
-Absence of unique DNA derived from mother and father
-Absence of emotion
-Absence of conscience
-Absence of soul
-Absence of decision tree comprised using the above
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« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2008, 07:51:21 AM »

"What" something "is" is based on DNA......if the robot has human DNA, then it is surely human...

But then what exactly is the difference, the thing that makes it a robot?

-Absence of flesh, bone, brain, kidney, liver, etc
-Absence of unique DNA derived from mother and father
-Absence of emotion
-Absence of conscience
-Absence of soul
-Absence of decision tree comprised using the above

Well, yeah. But other than that?
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Patton
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« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2008, 08:07:08 AM »

"What" something "is" is based on DNA......if the robot has human DNA, then it is surely human...

But then what exactly is the difference, the thing that makes it a robot?

-Absence of flesh, bone, brain, kidney, liver, etc
-Absence of unique DNA derived from mother and father
-Absence of emotion
-Absence of conscience
-Absence of soul
-Absence of decision tree comprised using the above

Well, yeah. But other than that?

laugh
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tadpol
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« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2008, 12:45:34 PM »

I'm not sure that list answers the question at hand. Presuming a robot making sperm, bones flesh and organs strike me as no farther stretch. Presuming a robot making sperm there must be human dna and that comes from a mother and a father I'd think. And the other four are tricky to prove or disprove in a person so if this robot could pass a Turing test I'd be hard pressed to draw a line.

And to look at it from the other side, using the list to stop someone from being counted as human, there are some implications I'm not sure I like. Organ transplants or replacements, cloning and brain damage come to mind fast.

I'd use a purely biological definition centering on being created through cell growth controlled by human dna.
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« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2008, 12:59:24 PM »

"What" something "is" is based on DNA......if the robot has human DNA, then it is surely human...

But then what exactly is the difference, the thing that makes it a robot?

-Absence of flesh, bone, brain, kidney, liver, etc
-Absence of unique DNA derived from mother and father
-Absence of emotion
-Absence of conscience
-Absence of soul
-Absence of decision tree comprised using the above

Much of this, apart from the soul stuff (which is bullshit), is what I have been saying. However, I feel we could easily design robots to meet the first two conditions.
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« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2008, 06:21:03 AM »

Much of this, apart from the soul stuff (which is bullshit)..........

I knew you'd say that....and put it in the list just for you  Wink

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However, I feel we could easily design robots to meet the first two conditions.

........flesh, bone, brain, kidney, liver, unique DNA derived from mother and father.......how is this not a human clone?

Presuming a robot making sperm, bones flesh and organs.....

Again...seems to me this is a clone.

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Presuming a robot making sperm there must be human dna and that comes from a mother and a father I'd think.

Absence of unique DNA would make it a clone of someone elses DNA.....and sperm makes it male....what of the female?

Quote
And the other four are tricky to prove or disprove in a person.....

Really?  First....are you human?
-Absence of emotion......do you not have emotion? Laugh, cry, sad, happy, mad?

-Absence of conscience.....do you not ponder over your decisions and how they might be perceived by or effect others?

-Absence of soul.......if you are not religious, theres no point in discussing.

-Absence of decision tree comprised using the above......do you NEVER make an emotional or moral, ethical decision that may defy logic?

Quote
.....to stop someone from being counted as human..... Organ transplants or replacements, cloning and brain damage come to mind fast.

Who has EVER advocated persons receiving organ transplants or sustaining brain damage as NOT being human?  How does either one change the individuals unique human DNA profile?

Cloning is a bridge not crossed....but may be under construction.

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I'd use a purely biological definition centering on being created through cell growth controlled by human dna.

This could be used to define a clone, could it not?
« Last Edit: February 22, 2008, 06:42:41 AM by Patton » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2008, 12:44:40 PM »

Much of this, apart from the soul stuff (which is bullshit)..........

I knew you'd say that....and put it in the list just for you  Wink

Cheesy

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Quote
However, I feel we could easily design robots to meet the first two conditions.

........flesh, bone, brain, kidney, liver, unique DNA derived from mother and father.......how is this not a human clone?

That is the question!
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tadpol
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« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2008, 03:20:37 PM »

........flesh, bone, brain, kidney, liver, unique DNA derived from mother and father.......how is this not a human clone?
I can imagine a bunch of life support systems keeping human parts live, even functional or necessary. Certainly in the realm of science fiction, but not ridiculous.

Quote
Quote
And the other four are tricky to prove or disprove in a person.....

Really?  First....are you human?
-Absence of emotion......do you not have emotion? Laugh, cry, sad, happy, mad?

-Absence of conscience.....do you not ponder over your decisions and how they might be perceived by or effect others?

-Absence of soul.......if you are not religious, theres no point in discussing.

-Absence of decision tree comprised using the above......do you NEVER make an emotional or moral, ethical decision that may defy logic?
I'd suggest that it'd be difficult to prove to someone other than myself that these things are true and not faked.

Quote
Quote
.....to stop someone from being counted as human..... Organ transplants or replacements, cloning and brain damage come to mind fast.

Who has EVER advocated persons receiving organ transplants or sustaining brain damage as NOT being human?  How does either one change the individuals unique human DNA profile?
A person with some one else's (or a pig's, or a machine) organ no longer has a unique dna, if you test from the transplant you get a result that could match some one else. I pretty sure brain damage can stop one from making decisions. And I'd expect brain damage could kill emotions or conscience. Not to touch souls. I'm not saying you are calling organ recipients nonhuman, but I read into the list some greyspace that could be used to that effect.

Quote
Quote
I'd use a purely biological definition centering on being created through cell growth controlled by human dna.

This could be used to define a clone, could it not?
Yes. I'd say a clone of a human is a human.
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Fredledingue
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« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2008, 08:49:33 AM »

A robot is a device build by men, not a living body. That's a first thing.
Second, emotions, sentiments, religious feeling, love etc are brain processes which involve very complex chemical reactions not only in the brain but across the whole body. It's almost impossible to reproduce these phenomenon without reproducing life.

A robot could be able to represent emotions but it will always be by logicaly processing datas through a program. It can't be human.

Here is Bender, seen begging his friend Fry for something.

Despite the appearences and his typicaly human reactions (He is even receiving a salary for his work), he is still a machine produced by Mom's Corp., not a human.

 


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« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2008, 07:57:30 PM »

I'd be fine with accepting robots as human, as soon as robo-hookers become affordable.
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« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2008, 12:31:19 PM »

This thread should be renamed the Bicentennial Man thread.  That was the entire premise of the movie.  A robot gains awareness and goes on a quest to become human.  By then end he has Flesh, stomach, blood, central nervous system, etc.  He even grows "old" and dies.  The crux of this argument is not around can a robot become a human, but more along the lines of can a robot have a soul. 
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IamMe
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« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2008, 12:42:38 PM »

This thread should be renamed the Bicentennial Man thread.  That was the entire premise of the movie.  A robot gains awareness and goes on a quest to become human.  By then end he has Flesh, stomach, blood, central nervous system, etc.  He even grows "old" and dies.  The crux of this argument is not around can a robot become a human, but more along the lines of can a robot have a soul. 

What exactly is a soul?
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