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jpn of Seattle
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« on: September 19, 2007, 05:06:29 PM » |
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WASHINGTON, Sept. 19 — A proposal that Democrats put forward as their best chance of changing the course of the Iraq war died on the Senate floor today, dealing the latest defeat to opponents of the war as Republicans stood firmly behind President Bush. The proposal that failed today would have required that American troops be given as much time at home as they spent overseas before being redeployed. The measure, put forth by Senator Jim Webb, Democrat of Virginia, fell four votes short of the 60 needed to prevent a filibuster. There were 56 votes in favor, including six Republicans — one fewer than the seven Republicans who joined with the Democrats in July, when the measure also fell four votes short of 60 votes needed. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/19/washington/19cnd-webb.html?_r=1&hp=&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1190250271-qZQC6h+udfiqSxtTVukOTA |
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« Last Edit: September 19, 2007, 05:10:33 PM by jpn of Seattle »
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What you got is everything-and I mean everything—run by the political arm. It’s the reign of the Mayberry Machiavellis. --John DiIulio, former White House official
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WaylanderII
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« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2007, 05:22:48 PM » |
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Very sad.
It's terrible that the chickenhawks who begin wars on others have never served themselves or are draft dodgers left over from the Vietnam conflict. Also highly revealing is that very few have children or relations that are currently serving.
Speaking of Vietnam, recently Bush raised the same argument used 40 years ago with the 'domino theory' started by Johnson, Nixon and McNamara. 'We fight them over there otherwise they'd come here and that it'll spread to other countries.'
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Gojira
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« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2007, 05:48:58 PM » |
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We should of never went in.
However, if we leave the Shiites and the Sunis will tear each other apart.
We really fucked up on this one. At least we could of left Vietnam.
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Our democracy has created an environment of indecision at times of impending crisis.
If life is easy for you, then you aint livin.
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jpn of Seattle
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« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2007, 07:28:30 PM » |
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Meanwhile, the Republicans make a tough, principled stand: Senate Republicans came up with a new idea: they’ll endorse the principle of Webb’s amendment, but they’ll make it non-binding. Speaking on the Senate floor this morning, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ), an ardent opponent of a pro-troop measure to relieve the stress on the overstretched armed forces, announced he will propose a toothless, watered-down substitute to the Webb amendment.
McCain said he and Sen. John Warner (R-VA) have teamed up to put together a “sense of the Senate” amendment to express “very clearly that we all want all our troops home and we understand the stress and strain that’s been inflicted on the men and women in the military and the guard and reserves.” Got that? Republicans will grudgingly agree that troops deserve longer breaks, but they won’t do anything to make sure they get longer breaks. --the carpetbagger |
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What you got is everything-and I mean everything—run by the political arm. It’s the reign of the Mayberry Machiavellis. --John DiIulio, former White House official
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stopdemocracynow
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« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2007, 07:41:43 PM » |
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I sure as hell wouldn't want to be an American general these days.
"Invade this country and secure it without sufficient troops."
And then "Oh, sorry, we'd like to leave now, get all your men out. Yes we know what we told you to do before, we changed our mind...you see, we don't know what the hell we actually want."
Yay for our Democratic champions like Hilary Clinton who play political games with our soldier's lives and our generals. It's hard for me to take them seriously. But oh wait, they were tricked, right? Bullshit. They understood the consequences of invading Iraq, whether we found WMDs or not we'd still be in a shithole, and if they didn't understand the consequences, why the hell are they Senators?
As for getting the troops out...who am I to know? It's unfortunate we got into this mess in the first place. If we do get out of here, we better establish some safeguards to keep Vietnam/Iraq style wars from being started. I'd like to see some effort towards that end.
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« Last Edit: September 19, 2007, 08:08:39 PM by stopdemocracynow »
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machioveli
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« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2007, 08:03:26 PM » |
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WASHINGTON, Sept. 19 — A proposal that Democrats put forward as their best chance of changing the course of the Iraq war died on the Senate floor today, dealing the latest defeat to opponents of the war as Republicans stood firmly behind President Bush. The proposal that failed today would have required that American troops be given as much time at home as they spent overseas before being redeployed. The measure, put forth by Senator Jim Webb, Democrat of Virginia, fell four votes short of the 60 needed to prevent a filibuster. There were 56 votes in favor, including six Republicans — one fewer than the seven Republicans who joined with the Democrats in July, when the measure also fell four votes short of 60 votes needed. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/19/washington/19cnd-webb.html?_r=1&hp=&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1190250271-qZQC6h+udfiqSxtTVukOTAreally? If Six republicans jumped ship and voted for and democrats control the senate, how did the republicans tell the troops to"Take a Hike". Another democratic attempt to put a spin on something and blame the republicans for not getting yet something else done in congress. |
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machioveli
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« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2007, 08:07:44 PM » |
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I sure as hell wouldn't want to be an American general these days.
"Invade this country and secure it without sufficient troops."
And then "Oh, sorry, we'd like to leave now, get all your men out. Yes we know what we told you to do before, we changed our mind...you see, we don't know what the hell we actually want."
Yay for our Democratic champions like Hilary Clinton who play political games with our soldier's lives and our generals. It's hard for me to take them seriously. But oh wait, they were tricked, right? Bullshit. They understood the consequences of invading Iraq, whether we found WMDs or not we'd still be in a shithole, and if they didn't understand the consequences, why the hell are they Senators?
Yes, kind of like how it was to be a general under "hubby" Clinton when he told the generals to win a war without ground troops. Which do you think was harder? |
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freethinker
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« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2007, 11:54:20 PM » |
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author=machioveli
really? If Six republicans jumped ship and voted for and democrats control the senate, how did the republicans tell the troops to"Take a Hike". Another democratic attempt to put a spin on something and blame the republicans for not getting yet something else done in congress. It called a filibuster, remember the legislative tactic the repiglicons wanted to do away with a while ago when they had the majority. Remember Bill Frist griping about how unfair and obstructionist it is to getting anything done. Remember the cry why not let it go to the floor for an "UP OR DOWN VOTE". REMEMBER NOW???
The senate needs 60 votes to override that REPULICAN FILIBUSTER that is OBSTRUCTING this legislation from advancing to an UP OR DOWN VOTE! Dispite the clear majority in favor! Those 43 republicons are telling the troops to "Take a hike". No spin just the facts.
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« Last Edit: September 20, 2007, 02:43:59 AM by freethinker »
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Yes we can ...and now we will...
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Dog Face 11B
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« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2007, 01:02:55 AM » |
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Damn this thread is ate up with a bunch of dumbass......then the democRATS wonder why the democratic congress has record low approval ratings.....they are lazy and scared of the wacko anti American left then blame republicans for their failures......what exactly has the democrats done since taking control of congress? thats right....not a goddamn thing other than whine......frickin bunch of whining ass babies.....yes that goes for the majority of them here.....
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Sorry Dog Face 11B, you are banned from posting or sending personal messages on this forum.
Racist comments
Really BBW? Show me where I said one racist comment. But I can show you where a mod at this board has and nothing was done about it.
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freethinker
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« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2007, 02:37:38 AM » |
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Damn this thread is ate up with a bunch of dumbass......then the Democrats wonder why the democratic congress has record low approval ratings.....they are lazy and scared of the wacko anti American left then blame republicans for their failures......what exactly has the democrats done since taking control of congress? thats right....not a goddamn thing other than whine......frickin bunch of whining ass babies.....yes that goes for the majority of them here.....
Doggy face : Do you understand what a filibuster is? Do you understand how legislation gets through congress? Do you understand that a piece of legislation needs 60 votes in the senate to override a filibuster being conducted by the opposition on that bill? Do you understand that with the filibuster activated by the republicans the bill can not be voted on ,on the floor dispite a MAJORITY of support?? Do you understand that the Dem's in congress have razor thin majority margins especially in the senate? Do you understand that at least half of the diaproval is directed at the republicans in congress?? If you do understand these things then you are playing dumb and that is disingenuous and inexcusable. If you don't understand these things you have just been informed. |
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« Last Edit: September 20, 2007, 02:42:43 AM by freethinker »
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Yes we can ...and now we will...
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neue regel
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« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2007, 04:18:27 AM » |
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Do you understand that a piece of legislation needs 60 votes in the senate to override a filibuster being conducted by the opposition on that bill? Is the legislation being filibustered? The proposal that failed today would have required that American troops be given as much time at home as they spent overseas before being redeployed. As Defense Sec. Robert Gates said this past Sunday on 'This Week', the bill is little more than an effort by the Democrats in Congress to find a back door way of imposing the agenda of the moveon left to prematurely end the war in Iraq. Do you understand that the Dem's in congress have razor thin majority margins especially in the senate? We've been told over and over that the Dems have a 'mandate' and now you're telling us they....what........don't? It's a 'Democratic' Congress. Their name is on the label. Harry and Nancy are the face of Congress. It is THEM who drag around a 13% approval rating. |
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jpn of Seattle
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« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2007, 07:43:22 AM » |
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Damn this thread is ate up with a bunch of dumbass......then the democRATS wonder why the democratic congress has record low approval ratings.....they are lazy and scared of the wacko anti American left then blame republicans for their failures......what exactly has the democrats done since taking control of congress? thats right....not a goddamn thing other than whine......frickin bunch of whining ass babies.....yes that goes for the majority of them here.....
Here's part of the reason that Democrats have not been as successful as they could be in getting things done:  If this pace of blocking legislation continues, this 110th Congress will be on track to roughly triple the previous record number of cloture votes — 58 each in the two Congresses from 1999-2002, according to the Senate Historical Office. http://www.mcclatchydc.com/226/story/18218.htmlOnly yesterday the Republicans in the Senate blocked Democratic attempts to finally allow the people living in Washington D.C. to have representation in Congress, provide relief for our military (the subject aired above), and to restore the right of Habeus Corpus for people suspected of terrorism. On the habeas bill, Democrats and Independents voted 50-1 in favor. Republicans voted 42-8 against. On the DC bill, Democrats and Independents voted 49-1 in favor. Republicans voted 41-8 against. |
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What you got is everything-and I mean everything—run by the political arm. It’s the reign of the Mayberry Machiavellis. --John DiIulio, former White House official
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Opmod
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« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2007, 10:09:47 AM » |
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I would be interested in knowing exactly what those bills said before I passed judgement on them but you JPN, where In the military. Infact you where an officer. So you know as well as I do how badly putting madatory terms on people like as much in the US as outside would place.
Which is easier given the nature of deployments and troop postings? Tpo have 1 guy serve 1 year i Iraq then 1 year at another place? I do not know about you but I do not know ANY 1 year postings. More likely it would lead to 2 years overseas and 2 years eslewhere. So you want to send soldiers to Iraq for 2 years instead of 1?
Plus there would have to be more soldiers released from posts to go overseas, leading to more civilians needing to be hired to fill those jobs.
The DC voting one is simple and its politics of course. DC is overwhelmingly democrat, it would give the Dems another seat. Of course the Repubes don't want that.
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\\\"Something witty\\\" Some self impotant blowhard
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freethinker
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« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2007, 11:28:47 AM » |
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This isn't exact wording ,but it explains the content of the amendment Hagel-Webb Introduce Amendment to Protect Readiness of U.S. Troops and Limit Deployments
WASHINGTON, D.C. - U.S. Senators Chuck Hagel (R-NE) and Jim Webb (D-VA) introduced a bipartisan amendment today to the Iraq War supplemental pending bill. The amendment:
* ensures that units and individuals in the Armed Forces be certified as "fully mission capable" 15 days prior to deployment;
* limits the length of overseas deployments of the Army, Marine Corps, and National Guard;
* establishes a minimum time between deployments for the Army, Marine Corps and National Guard;
* provides additional appropriations totaling approximately $3.1 billion to reset Army National Guard and Reserve equipment and to address funding shortfalls for Army National Guard training, operations and maintenance; and to fund the acquisition of additional Mine Resistant Ambush Protection vehicles for the Marine Corps;
* and requires the President to report to Congress on the comprehensive diplomatic, political and economic strategy of the U.S. regarding Iraq. Heres the full text; http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/D?d110:32:./temp/~bdPiax:: |
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« Last Edit: September 20, 2007, 11:45:55 AM by freethinker »
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Yes we can ...and now we will...
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jpn of Seattle
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« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2007, 06:17:58 PM » |
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I would be interested in knowing exactly what those bills said before I passed judgement on them but you JPN, where In the military. Infact you where an officer. So you know as well as I do how badly putting madatory terms on people like as much in the US as outside would place.
Which is easier given the nature of deployments and troop postings? Tpo have 1 guy serve 1 year i Iraq then 1 year at another place? I do not know about you but I do not know ANY 1 year postings. More likely it would lead to 2 years overseas and 2 years eslewhere. So you want to send soldiers to Iraq for 2 years instead of 1?
Plus there would have to be more soldiers released from posts to go overseas, leading to more civilians needing to be hired to fill those jobs.
The DC voting one is simple and its politics of course. DC is overwhelmingly democrat, it would give the Dems another seat. Of course the Repubes don't want that.
Iraq had been a 1 year deployment for the Army, but they recently increased it to 15 months because they are stretched so thin. The Marines have held firm on keeping their scheduled deployments to 7 months, although many units have been extended beyond that duration. National Guard troops are only deployed for 12 months at a time. As for the DC voting, the bill included giving another Congressional seat to Utah, which almost certainly would be a gain for the Republicans. So in fact, the bill was quite balanced. I don't understand why the Republicans blocked it. |
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What you got is everything-and I mean everything—run by the political arm. It’s the reign of the Mayberry Machiavellis. --John DiIulio, former White House official
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