|
gommi
|
 |
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2008, 08:02:32 PM » |
|
Anyone familiar with the political process has probably turned to faith....
Touche. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
\"Ideological and moral confusion are signs of a higher consciousness\".
__IAPer since 2004__
|
|
|
|
IamMe
|
|
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2008, 02:12:34 PM » |
|
By conducting this experiment however would you not say in a way they were putting God to the test.
Another of religion's built-in defence mechanisms. There is also thousands of examples of cases were prayer has worked. Cite one, with details. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell
If you strike me down I shall become more dead than you can ever imagine.
|
|
|
|
Callum
|
|
« Reply #17 on: February 29, 2008, 09:55:06 AM » |
|
Being a political forum, I am sure many will feel that problems are solved through the political process, not faith.
Sadly, there are plenty of people who believe this sort of generalisation. Neither the political process as commonly practiced within ANY country, nor faith, is capable of 'solving' many of the problems of the world. Only long and careful thought and education will bring soutions to those that are soluble, and neither politics nor faith are exactly renowned for that! |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Factinista
Full Member
Karma: +17/-35
Posts: 224
|
|
« Reply #18 on: February 29, 2008, 10:51:07 AM » |
|
Depending on which "faith" you are talking about...
I generally have "faith" in democracy and the rule of law, however sometimes I see that masses of people are tricked into giving up that right under the guise of democracy. So I have "faith" of a kind, because it can be tested whether or not democracies are more humane contries than others. In general this IS the case.
I do NOT have "faith" in prayer. Primarily because there have been scienntific tests on the subject and the only effect is a placebo effect, something easily replaced with a loving family or community.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
John Murphy
Newbie
Karma: +0/-2
Posts: 20
|
|
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2008, 05:53:12 AM » |
|
In todays world everyone looks for logic and science to explain everything. No longer is emmotion or faith seen as credible in a world of doubt and cynicism. Yet science still cannot explain everything, for example St. Pio, had stigmata all kinds of scientests and scholars came to uncover this hoax. He was kept under a controled enviroment to make sure he was not making these wounds himself. Many of the scientists studying this phenomeon became believers themselves. They also could smell as they themselves described a perfume like odour coming from his wounds. Yet on the day padre Pio died he had no wounds not even any scars where the wounds where his hands had automatically healed. Oh by the way he was also known to bilocate. He died in September 1968 so it was not so very long ago.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Biker Dude
A TRUE Liberal!
Forum Administrator
Hero Member
Karma: +156/-117
Posts: 2,091
Live to Ride, Ride to Live
|
|
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2008, 06:21:38 AM » |
|
In todays world everyone looks for logic and science to explain everything. No longer is emmotion or faith seen as credible in a world of doubt and cynicism. Yet science still cannot explain everything, for example St. Pio, had stigmata all kinds of scientests and scholars came to uncover this hoax. He was kept under a controled enviroment to make sure he was not making these wounds himself. Many of the scientists studying this phenomeon became believers themselves. They also could smell as they themselves described a perfume like odour coming from his wounds. Yet on the day padre Pio died he had no wounds not even any scars where the wounds where his hands had automatically healed. Oh by the way he was also known to bilocate. He died in September 1968 so it was not so very long ago.
Actual proof would be nice. Even an attempt at backing your claims would be greatly appreciated. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
 Who will watch the watchers?Now that it is over, what are we going to talk about? |
|
|
|
IamMe
|
|
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2008, 02:43:11 PM » |
|
In todays world everyone looks for logic and science to explain everything. No longer is emmotion or faith seen as credible in a world of doubt and cynicism. Yet science still cannot explain everything, for example St. Pio, had stigmata all kinds of scientests and scholars came to uncover this hoax. He was kept under a controled enviroment to make sure he was not making these wounds himself. Many of the scientists studying this phenomeon became believers themselves. They also could smell as they themselves described a perfume like odour coming from his wounds. Yet on the day padre Pio died he had no wounds not even any scars where the wounds where his hands had automatically healed. Oh by the way he was also known to bilocate. He died in September 1968 so it was not so very long ago.
Padre Pio 'faked his stigmata with acid'I thought everyone knew that. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell
If you strike me down I shall become more dead than you can ever imagine.
|
|
|
allpoints
Full Member
Karma: +24/-2
Posts: 214
I don't care if it rains or freezes...
|
|
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2008, 03:20:11 PM » |
|
People kill each other every day over religious differences. I don't think more religion is gonna help, it hasn't in the entire history of the human race.
Religious moderates provide top cover for extremists of every stripe, time for religion to quit denying the problem.
Either that, or time for people to realize what their religions are telling them to do.
Does anyone really think that many of the problems in the Middle East would exist if two tribes didn't think that God granted them sole use of the same patch of desert?
Does anyone think that John 3:16 and the 14 Infallibles can ultimately peacefully coexist as happy neighbors?
The fact that people of faith combat the notion that they are to blame for a lot of problems is just one more symptom of the intractable mindset that religion promotes.
Time to put it to death.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
slide
|
|
|
|
IamMe
|
|
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2008, 03:30:45 PM » |
|
Time to put it to death.
I really wish you hadn't said that. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell
If you strike me down I shall become more dead than you can ever imagine.
|
|
|
Patton
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Karma: +105/-139
Posts: 1,807
|
|
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2008, 03:41:11 PM » |
|
In todays world everyone looks for logic and science to explain everything. No longer is emmotion or faith seen as credible in a world of doubt and cynicism. Yet science still cannot explain everything, for example St. Pio, had stigmata all kinds of scientests and scholars came to uncover this hoax. He was kept under a controled enviroment to make sure he was not making these wounds himself. Many of the scientists studying this phenomeon became believers themselves. They also could smell as they themselves described a perfume like odour coming from his wounds. Yet on the day padre Pio died he had no wounds not even any scars where the wounds where his hands had automatically healed. Oh by the way he was also known to bilocate. He died in September 1968 so it was not so very long ago.
Padre Pio 'faked his stigmata with acid'I thought everyone knew that.
"The boys in the Seraphic College could not understand why their instructor seemed to be hiding his hands under his garments during the classes that he was teaching. The Father Guardian, Padre Paolino, noticed that Pio appeared to be covering up red spots on his hands with the sleeves of his habit. However, he was not too concerned since he and Padre Pio had recently received burns on their hands from carbolic acid. The boys had needed injections to fight the Spanish Flu which was raging at that time. Due to a shortage of doctors, Padres Paolino and Pio administered the shots, using carbolic acid as a sterilizing agent."Phenol causes a chemical burn consistent with what is described above.....NOT what would be described as an open, bleeding "wound" resembling a puncture.....injected phenol causes localized swelling....it is used for treatment of minor extremity disorders like neuromas...it is also a preservative for other injected medications (steroids, insulin, heparin, etc)...how come NO ONE EVER has an open, bleeding wound when injected with a phenol preserved medication or receives treatment for neuromas? They don't. "I thought everyone knew that." |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best; it removes all that is base. All men are afraid in battle. The coward is the one who lets his fear overcome his sense of duty. Duty is the essence of manhood
-George S. Patton
|
|
|
|
IamMe
|
|
« Reply #25 on: March 07, 2008, 03:55:36 PM » |
|
In todays world everyone looks for logic and science to explain everything. No longer is emmotion or faith seen as credible in a world of doubt and cynicism. Yet science still cannot explain everything, for example St. Pio, had stigmata all kinds of scientests and scholars came to uncover this hoax. He was kept under a controled enviroment to make sure he was not making these wounds himself. Many of the scientists studying this phenomeon became believers themselves. They also could smell as they themselves described a perfume like odour coming from his wounds. Yet on the day padre Pio died he had no wounds not even any scars where the wounds where his hands had automatically healed. Oh by the way he was also known to bilocate. He died in September 1968 so it was not so very long ago.
Padre Pio 'faked his stigmata with acid'I thought everyone knew that.
"The boys in the Seraphic College could not understand why their instructor seemed to be hiding his hands under his garments during the classes that he was teaching. The Father Guardian, Padre Paolino, noticed that Pio appeared to be covering up red spots on his hands with the sleeves of his habit. However, he was not too concerned since he and Padre Pio had recently received burns on their hands from carbolic acid. The boys had needed injections to fight the Spanish Flu which was raging at that time. Due to a shortage of doctors, Padres Paolino and Pio administered the shots, using carbolic acid as a sterilizing agent."Phenol causes a chemical burn consistent with what is described above.....NOT what would be described as an open, bleeding "wound" resembling a puncture.....injected phenol causes localized swelling....it is used for treatment of minor extremity disorders like neuromas...it is also a preservative for other injected medications (steroids, insulin, heparin, etc)...how come NO ONE EVER has an open, bleeding wound when injected with a phenol preserved medication or receives treatment for neuromas? They don't. "I thought everyone knew that." You actually believe it was a miracle? How quaint. Do you have proof that they were open bleeding wounds. Are there pictures, doctor's reports etc? Another alternative is that he simply cut himself (perhaps using the acid to steralise). |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell
If you strike me down I shall become more dead than you can ever imagine.
|
|
|
Patton
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Karma: +105/-139
Posts: 1,807
|
|
« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2008, 04:07:07 PM » |
|
You actually believe it was a miracle? How quaint. You don't know what I believe...all I provided was information contrary to yours. Do you have proof that they were open bleeding wounds. Are there pictures, doctor's reports etc?
Another alternative is that he simply cut himself (perhaps using the acid to steralise).
I would have thought before you would make such a self-rightous and flippant reply you'd actually look into it yourself....I guess I will know better than to think you've actually looked at the body of available references before commenting..... A simple Google search for pictures of the wounds was easy enough to find....your absence in doing so speaks volumes..... |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best; it removes all that is base. All men are afraid in battle. The coward is the one who lets his fear overcome his sense of duty. Duty is the essence of manhood
-George S. Patton
|
|
|
allpoints
Full Member
Karma: +24/-2
Posts: 214
I don't care if it rains or freezes...
|
|
« Reply #27 on: March 07, 2008, 05:31:01 PM » |
|
Time to put it to death.
I really wish you hadn't said that..  I debated stating it like that, but in the end I wanted to provoke someone of faith to call me on it Yes, it is an intolerant notion, but only towards some silly ideas. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
slide
|
|
|
|
Callum
|
|
« Reply #28 on: March 08, 2008, 12:26:04 AM » |
|
In todays world everyone looks for logic and science to explain everything. No longer is emmotion or faith seen as credible in a world of doubt and cynicism. Yet science still cannot explain everything..... The interesting underlying ideas here are that (a) science claims to explain everything. It doesn't. It claims to approach the events of the world in a systematic manner to discover what and how they interrelate, to discover what things actually exist and their interrelationships. It accepts thats its approach is one of constant revision and correction to closer to a complete description of reality. Whether it is possible to get there is moot: what isn't is that testable and relatively accurate theories now account for much of the ongoing operation of the physical world, and that these go far beyond what is our common-sense' or 'folk' views. (b) emmotion and faith can provide an explanation of anything. They can't. They are merely a way of saying 'I don't know how this happened'. With the corollary 'I do not have the ability to investigate it'. Science accepts that there are things yet to be explained, and attempts to derive means of doing it: faith declares there are things that WILL NOT be explained, and denies attempts to do so. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
John Murphy
Newbie
Karma: +0/-2
Posts: 20
|
|
« Reply #29 on: March 08, 2008, 10:27:41 AM » |
|
In todays world everyone looks for logic and science to explain everything. No longer is emmotion or faith seen as credible in a world of doubt and cynicism. Yet science still cannot explain everything, for example St. Pio, had stigmata all kinds of scientests and scholars came to uncover this hoax. He was kept under a controled enviroment to make sure he was not making these wounds himself. Many of the scientists studying this phenomeon became believers themselves. They also could smell as they themselves described a perfume like odour coming from his wounds. Yet on the day padre Pio died he had no wounds not even any scars where the wounds where his hands had automatically healed. Oh by the way he was also known to bilocate. He died in September 1968 so it was not so very long ago.
Padre Pio 'faked his stigmata with acid'I thought everyone knew that. Then how come there was no scars on his hands. Where were the scientist when he was using the acid. Also explain how after being dead and buried nearly fifty years he is almost perfectly perserved. They just exhumed his body last week, there was an article in the daily mirror about it only 3 or 4 days ago. They never used any embalming techniques on him and yet him and his robes are still in almost perfect condition. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
