John Murphy
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« Reply #30 on: March 08, 2008, 11:11:44 AM » |
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You actually believe it was a miracle? How quaint.
Do you have proof that they were open bleeding wounds. Are there pictures, doctor's reports etc?
Another alternative is that he simply cut himself (perhaps using the acid to steralise).
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I am sure there is plenty of documentation on padre Pio, his stigmata was well investigated.
Also I know you may find this hard to believe, but I myself have recieved a miracle that I obtained through padre Pio. I have a heridatary condition, that has already took the life of my brother, and a cousin. Though doctors said I had anywhere from maybe a couple of weeks to couple of months to live. In this time I got married, one doctor said to me he did not think I would have as I could die at any moment, though I did not care for his bedside manner that is what he believed. I believed something different, I always sort of knew I would be alright. I prayed all the time especially to padre Pio I had one of his famous mitts placed on me. I survived and I went through a liver transplant, after the operation it wasn't long till they realised something had gone wrong, I was bleeding internally. I had to go back down to the operating theatre, this time nearly all my organs failed to work. I was completely dependant on machines, I was in intensive care for a month. When my organs all started working again, I hadn't the strength of a kitten. I was still on oxygen and when I walked a physio had to walk with me carrying a tank of oxygen. I finally was able to walk the length of the ward, when I did all the staff and patients clapped and cheered like as if I had just done some big achievment. Here I am today weighing 15 stome and as fit as a fiddle. The doctors still can't explain how I survived but I think it was a miracle. They called me to the hospital for some big talk they have with other doctors were thet talk about all these extrordinary cases. I was told only because I was so young, they would never considered me for a liver transplant, they thought I was as good as dead, but because I was young they thought it was worth a chance however small.
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Biker Dude
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« Reply #31 on: March 08, 2008, 11:14:19 AM » |
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So in other words you are going to make any efort at all to back up your claims?
Welcome to irrelevancy Mr. Murphy.
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 Who will watch the watchers?A vote for McCain is a traitorous vote for the destruction of our way of life as we know it. |
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Callum
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« Reply #32 on: March 08, 2008, 12:32:26 PM » |
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Mr Murphy
I have started (not knowing of your claims) a thread on miracles. Perhaps you would like to contribute to it.... I would be very interested to understand how your story differs - in terms of generalising a definition of miracles - from the miracle old Jim recounted to me.
It would also remove your irrelevancies form this thread.
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John Murphy
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« Reply #33 on: March 08, 2008, 12:47:37 PM » |
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In todays world everyone looks for logic and science to explain everything. No longer is emmotion or faith seen as credible in a world of doubt and cynicism. Yet science still cannot explain everything, for example St. Pio, had stigmata all kinds of scientests and scholars came to uncover this hoax. He was kept under a controled enviroment to make sure he was not making these wounds himself. Many of the scientists studying this phenomeon became believers themselves. They also could smell as they themselves described a perfume like odour coming from his wounds. Yet on the day padre Pio died he had no wounds not even any scars where the wounds where his hands had automatically healed. Oh by the way he was also known to bilocate. He died in September 1968 so it was not so very long ago.
Actual proof would be nice. Even an attempt at backing your claims would be greatly appreciated. If you don't believe me research it you will find out everything you want to know. You can also check the daily mirror for their article on padre Pio. Don't expect me to chase up bits and pieces for you, you can either take me at my word or don't it's entirely up to you. |
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John Murphy
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« Reply #34 on: March 08, 2008, 12:50:34 PM » |
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So in other words you are going to make any efort at all to back up your claims?
Welcome to irrelevancy Mr. Murphy.
As I have said before you can research padre Pio yourself don't expect me to do it for you. |
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IamMe
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« Reply #35 on: March 08, 2008, 02:24:04 PM » |
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I am sure there is plenty of documentation on padre Pio, his stigmata was well investigated.
By the Catholic Church, who have a vested interest in creating and promoting a miracle industry. I simply do not trust them. Also I know you may find this hard to believe, but I myself have recieved a miracle that I obtained through padre Pio. I have a heridatary condition, that has already took the life of my brother, and a cousin. Though doctors said I had anywhere from maybe a couple of weeks to couple of months to live. In this time I got married, one doctor said to me he did not think I would have as I could die at any moment, though I did not care for his bedside manner that is what he believed. I believed something different, I always sort of knew I would be alright. I prayed all the time especially to padre Pio I had one of his famous mitts placed on me. I survived and I went through a liver transplant, http://www.itsallpolitics.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,26/action,post/quote,46028/topic,1802.30/num_replies,34/sesc,f52793eeedbd9bfb50d89601a09a1745/Post replyafter the operation it wasn't long till they realised something had gone wrong, I was bleeding internally. I had to go back down to the operating theatre, this time nearly all my organs failed to work. I was completely dependant on machines, I was in intensive care for a month. When my organs all started working again, I hadn't the strength of a kitten. I was still on oxygen and when I walked a physio had to walk with me carrying a tank of oxygen. I finally was able to walk the length of the ward, when I did all the staff and patients clapped and cheered like as if I had just done some big achievment. Here I am today weighing 15 stome and as fit as a fiddle. The doctors still can't explain how I survived but I think it was a miracle. They called me to the hospital for some big talk they have with other doctors were thet talk about all these extrordinary cases. I was told only because I was so young, they would never considered me for a liver transplant, they thought I was as good as dead, but because I was young they thought it was worth a chance however small. Its an odd sort of miracle that results in near-total organ failure. Why do you attribute it to pio, rather than to all of the doctors and nurses who saved your life? How horrible. If I were one of your doctors I'd be pretty hurt by that. |
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IamMe
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« Reply #36 on: March 08, 2008, 02:30:49 PM » |
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You actually believe it was a miracle? How quaint. You don't know what I believe...all I provided was information contrary to yours. Do you have proof that they were open bleeding wounds. Are there pictures, doctor's reports etc?
Another alternative is that he simply cut himself (perhaps using the acid to steralise).
I would have thought before you would make such a self-rightous and flippant reply you'd actually look into it yourself....I guess I will know better than to think you've actually looked at the body of available references before commenting..... A simple Google search for pictures of the wounds was easy enough to find....your absence in doing so speaks volumes..... What, so I am somehow deficient for not researching every crackpot miracle story? I did a Google search. There are appear to be about two different images of his hands, neither showing much detail. |
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\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell
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Biker Dude
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« Reply #37 on: March 08, 2008, 02:46:41 PM » |
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So in other words you are going to make any efort at all to back up your claims?
Welcome to irrelevancy Mr. Murphy.
As I have said before you can research padre Pio yourself don't expect me to do it for you. You made the claim. It's normal to bacj what you say if you want to be taken seriously. It's a losers game to say, 'look it up'. Why didn't you just post www.google.com and say here ya go? Loser. |
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Who will watch the watchers?A vote for McCain is a traitorous vote for the destruction of our way of life as we know it.
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Jericoacoara
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« Reply #38 on: March 08, 2008, 03:32:18 PM » |
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If you don't believe me research it you will find out everything you want to know. You can also check the daily mirror for their article on padre Pio. Don't expect me to chase up bits and pieces for you, you can either take me at my word or don't it's entirely up to you.
The Daily Mirror article mainly talks about his sainthood. But I can see why you directed us towards that 2002 story and not more recent articles  Padre Pio, the friar with fingerless gloves whose image is found on a million Catholic key chains; who was canonised before 200,000 ecstatic pilgrims five years ago, was a charlatan who deliberately mutilated himself with acid to give the appearance of bearing the stigmata of Christ, according to evidence to be published next week.
The Italian historian Sergio Luzzatto will release Padre Pio, Miracles and politics in 20th century Italy – a book producing new evidence from Vatican archives, which he says proves that the charismatic friar secretly procured carbolic acid with which to burn his hands, feet and sides.
The allegations are not new: two successive popes regarded Padre Pio as a fraud. By 1920, when Pio was 33 and was already exhibiting his scars before masses of pilgrims, the church was worried that his cult was spinning out of control. Reports commissioned by the church claimed Pio regularly scourged himself with a metal-tipped whip, and had sex with women twice a week. For many years Pio was banned from celebrating mass in public.
A doctor sent by the Vatican to examine them concluded that the wounds were probably caused and maintained artificially. To test the hypothesis he bound the wounds and sealed the bandage to prevent it being tampered with. But on examination a month later the doctor was nonplussed to find that the wounds had failed to heal.
In the summer of 1919, the 28-year-old cousin of a pharmacist in the southern city of Foggia, a deeply religious young woman called Maria de Vito, made the pilgrimage to Pio's church, San Giovanni. The pharmacist told his local bishop, Mgr Salvatore Bella, "When she returned to Foggia she brought the greetings of Padre Pio and asked me in his name, and in strict secrecy, for carbolic acid, telling me that Padre Pio had need of it, and giving me the little bottle he had given her, capacity 100g, and with a skull and crossbones http://www.independent.co.uk/news/europe/padre-pio-faked-his-stigmata-with-acid-397811.htmlPope John XXIII believed Padre Pio, the hugely popular Capuchin monk who was canonised in 2002, was a fraud who had "incorrect" relations with women and whose soul was in danger, according to a Vatican document unearthed by an Italian historian.
Sergio Luzzatto, whose book on Padre Pio "The Other Christ" is to be published next week after six years of research, has also found documents in the Vatican archives suggesting that Padre Pio may have faked his stigmata, the marks of the wounds of Christ, with acid. Vatican officials say both allegations are already well known and were fully taken into account in the beatification and canonisation process. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2739751.ece Personally, I am extremely sceptical of miracle workers and such. But if the person is cured because of their belief, then it is all good in the end  |
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« Last Edit: March 08, 2008, 03:36:41 PM by Jericoacoara »
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John Murphy
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« Reply #39 on: March 09, 2008, 05:18:27 AM » |
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I am sure there is plenty of documentation on padre Pio, his stigmata was well investigated.
By the Catholic Church, who have a vested interest in creating and promoting a miracle industry. I simply do not trust them. I am sure there is plenty of documentation on padre Pio, that is not by the catholic church. Also I know you may find this hard to believe, but I myself have recieved a miracle that I obtained through padre Pio. I have a heridatary condition, that has already took the life of my brother, and a cousin. Though doctors said I had anywhere from maybe a couple of weeks to couple of months to live. In this time I got married, one doctor said to me he did not think I would have as I could die at any moment, though I did not care for his bedside manner that is what he believed. I believed something different, I always sort of knew I would be alright. I prayed all the time especially to padre Pio I had one of his famous mitts placed on me. I survived and I went through a liver transplant, http://www.itsallpolitics.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,26/action,post/quote,46028/topic,1802.30/num_replies,34/sesc,f52793eeedbd9bfb50d89601a09a1745/Post replyafter the operation it wasn't long till they realised something had gone wrong, I was bleeding internally. I had to go back down to the operating theatre, this time nearly all my organs failed to work. I was completely dependant on machines, I was in intensive care for a month. When my organs all started working again, I hadn't the strength of a kitten. I was still on oxygen and when I walked a physio had to walk with me carrying a tank of oxygen. I finally was able to walk the length of the ward, when I did all the staff and patients clapped and cheered like as if I had just done some big achievment. Here I am today weighing 15 stome and as fit as a fiddle. The doctors still can't explain how I survived but I think it was a miracle. They called me to the hospital for some big talk they have with other doctors were thet talk about all these extrordinary cases. I was told only because I was so young, they would never considered me for a liver transplant, they thought I was as good as dead, but because I was young they thought it was worth a chance however small. Its an odd sort of miracle that results in near-total organ failure. Why do you attribute it to pio, rather than to all of the doctors and nurses who saved your life? How horrible. If I were one of your doctors I'd be pretty hurt by that. Well it is them themselves who say they cannot explain how I survived. Even before the operation they thought I would not live long enough to have it done. Also I do appreciate everything the doctors done for me and it is also down to them as well that I am still here. |
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John Murphy
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« Reply #40 on: March 09, 2008, 05:30:38 AM » |
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If you don't believe me research it you will find out everything you want to know. You can also check the daily mirror for their article on padre Pio. Don't expect me to chase up bits and pieces for you, you can either take me at my word or don't it's entirely up to you.
The Daily Mirror article mainly talks about his sainthood. But I can see why you directed us towards that 2002 story and not more recent articles Padre Pio, the friar with fingerless gloves whose image is found on a million Catholic key chains; who was canonised before 200,000 ecstatic pilgrims five years ago, was a charlatan who deliberately mutilated himself with acid to give the appearance of bearing the stigmata of Christ, according to evidence to be published next week.
The Italian historian Sergio Luzzatto will release Padre Pio, Miracles and politics in 20th century Italy – a book producing new evidence from Vatican archives, which he says proves that the charismatic friar secretly procured carbolic acid with which to burn his hands, feet and sides.
The allegations are not new: two successive popes regarded Padre Pio as a fraud. By 1920, when Pio was 33 and was already exhibiting his scars before masses of pilgrims, the church was worried that his cult was spinning out of control. Reports commissioned by the church claimed Pio regularly scourged himself with a metal-tipped whip, and had sex with women twice a week. For many years Pio was banned from celebrating mass in public.
A doctor sent by the Vatican to examine them concluded that the wounds were probably caused and maintained artificially. To test the hypothesis he bound the wounds and sealed the bandage to prevent it being tampered with. But on examination a month later the doctor was nonplussed to find that the wounds had failed to heal.
In the summer of 1919, the 28-year-old cousin of a pharmacist in the southern city of Foggia, a deeply religious young woman called Maria de Vito, made the pilgrimage to Pio's church, San Giovanni. The pharmacist told his local bishop, Mgr Salvatore Bella, "When she returned to Foggia she brought the greetings of Padre Pio and asked me in his name, and in strict secrecy, for carbolic acid, telling me that Padre Pio had need of it, and giving me the little bottle he had given her, capacity 100g, and with a skull and crossbones http://www.independent.co.uk/news/europe/padre-pio-faked-his-stigmata-with-acid-397811.htmlPope John XXIII believed Padre Pio, the hugely popular Capuchin monk who was canonised in 2002, was a fraud who had "incorrect" relations with women and whose soul was in danger, according to a Vatican document unearthed by an Italian historian.
Sergio Luzzatto, whose book on Padre Pio "The Other Christ" is to be published next week after six years of research, has also found documents in the Vatican archives suggesting that Padre Pio may have faked his stigmata, the marks of the wounds of Christ, with acid. Vatican officials say both allegations are already well known and were fully taken into account in the beatification and canonisation process. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2739751.ece Personally, I am extremely sceptical of miracle workers and such. But if the person is cured because of their belief, then it is all good in the end I did not direct you to the 2002 articles, I don't know how you came to that conclusion. The story was in the daily mirror I think less than a week ago. Also padre Pio's body is currently on display for the next 6 months and their is no scarring on his hands. If I poured acid on your hands it would leave a scar, also his stigmata was puncture wounds, not burns. Believe all the propaganda of the enemies of the church you like, but padre is now on display for you to go check it out for yourself. There was no scars when he died the stigmata vanished he made himself available to scientists who put him under supervision they could not explain the stigmata. Now take from that what you like believe or dis-believe entirely your choice. |
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John Murphy
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« Reply #41 on: March 09, 2008, 05:37:00 AM » |
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So in other words you are going to make any efort at all to back up your claims?
Welcome to irrelevancy Mr. Murphy.
As I have said before you can research padre Pio yourself don't expect me to do it for you. You made the claim. It's normal to bacj what you say if you want to be taken seriously. It's a losers game to say, 'look it up'. Why didn't you just post www.google.com and say here ya go? Loser. Well for a start I don't even know how to post links on posts. Also I am not going to trawl through books, or articles, or the internet to prove something to you. You can do your own homework, don't expect me to do it for you. One other thing are you not breaking site rules by calling me a loser. I hope you edit this remark and erase it from your text please. |
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IamMe
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« Reply #42 on: March 10, 2008, 02:01:04 PM » |
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Well it is them themselves who say they cannot explain how I survived. Even before the operation they thought I would not live long enough to have it done. Also I do appreciate everything the doctors done for me and it is also down to them as well that I am still here.
Could you clarify, were they saying it was physically impossible for you to survive from that situation or just highly unlikely? (The difference is important.) |
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\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell
If you strike me down I shall become more dead than you can ever imagine.
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wooddcutter
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« Reply #43 on: March 19, 2008, 08:59:42 AM » |
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Yes, i agree with the world unite thing but not necessarily in a religious sense. As unrealistic as it may sound scrapping capitalism and introducing a fairer more equal system world wide is the only way forward.
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