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Author Topic: Universal Healthcare - For or Against?  (Read 2414 times)
Toaster
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« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2008, 11:02:13 AM »

Oh, you Americans. So apprehensive of basic public services. A truly rational society is one that is designed to ensure that people receive all necessities.

I wonder how your society would be if not for America.
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Gane
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« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2008, 12:49:19 PM »

It really depends on how well it is done. The Japanese have done an amazing job with universal health care and they have one of the healthiest societies in the world. It works well for them and is done fairly efficiently. Our government though, has proven to be inept at everything. I think we should focus on fixing Social Security and Medicaid before we try to implement another government funded service. We are already 9 trillion in debt, and we want to add more to the budget. We need to take care of that and fix the other broken social services before we add more.
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« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2008, 01:32:58 PM »

Our government though, has proven to be inept at everything.

For some reason this comes up every time there is a debate on this (it is usually right-wingers). I don't know why US politicians might be less capable than European ones, though I suspect it has something to do with the fact that ~half the country can be wooed by a promise of lower federal spending and lower taxes.
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Abraxas
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« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2008, 02:23:17 PM »

Every day Congress does something that makes me want to hurl my shoe through the TV. I don't know much about the UK or Australia or Canada... but I'm sure they get upset with their Parliments as well... but who cares? We're talking about the US. Let's try and keep it in context.

I use the last budget as a perfect example of how things can go horribly wrong.

Bush halted additional funding on Education and Medicare/Medicaid. Why? So he can give the Pentagon another $35 billion of course - but this isn't the issue. The issue arises when Congress wants to add funding to the social structure of government. Say they want to give $10 billion to Medicare/Medicaid... but Bush doesn't want to.

What happens? No federal budget gets signed? The government shuts down? No federal payments? And what happens to the peoples' health care?

This is what I don't like. The fact that the US can be held hostage by the ineptitude of partisan wankers.

I don't want that to happen.
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« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2008, 02:32:40 PM »

Every day Congress does something that makes me want to hurl my shoe through the TV. I don't know much about the UK or Australia or Canada... but I'm sure they get upset with their Parliments as well... but who cares? We're talking about the US. Let's try and keep it in context.

I use the last budget as a perfect example of how things can go horribly wrong.

Bush halted additional funding on Education and Medicare/Medicaid. Why? So he can give the Pentagon another $35 billion of course - but this isn't the issue. The issue arises when Congress wants to add funding to the social structure of government. Say they want to give $10 billion to Medicare/Medicaid... but Bush doesn't want to.

What happens? No federal budget gets signed? The government shuts down? No federal payments? And what happens to the peoples' health care?

This is what I don't like. The fact that the US can be held hostage by the ineptitude of partisan wankers.

I don't want that to happen.

I have a Shakespeare quote that would be good here, but it would be pretentious. If you don't even try, the result will certainly be failure. Sure, the Republicans will try to derail Socialised Healthcare for their own elitist ends - but it is still fundamentally a good and just system. People will realise that with time.
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Abraxas
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« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2008, 02:42:58 PM »

Sorry, I'm a realist, and I'm not willing to risk the nations economy on a "moral idea".

There are more reasonable approaches - like a code of conduct for patients or simply destroying companies that outright screw their customers (no fines)... or maybe promoting (but not FORCING) people into a healthier life style?

We don't need to totally rebuild health care... just fix it.







And a less pretnetious quote than the one you were looking for probably would have been: "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take."
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« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2008, 03:35:45 PM »

I agree with Toaster, in that I would not ask for a right to the efforts of someone else to make me healthy. I like there being places where a problem is the only requirement for treatment, but I wouldn't say I have a right to such a place.
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And Justice For All
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« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2008, 06:46:09 PM »

This is one issue that I'm extremely torn on. I know that universal healthcare would be a great deed to the poorest and those in need but at the same time it comes at such a high cost. Now I'm not greedy but anyone who's worked their ass off and has to give half their paycheck away is bound to get annoyed including me. Also if it is going to be this way it needs to be for everyone, not just kids or certain group of people. Another thing to consider is you might well be paying for people who have no respect for their body or pill poppers who need to go to doctor every week to get their fill. But really I'm torn and honestly don't know how I feel about it. If anything we can try it for awhile and if it doesn't work we can switch back just as we did with prohibition.
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« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2008, 07:06:15 PM »

Depends on a few answers.... how it is paid for...what is increased...what is cut...what type access and for who...provisions...any lifestyle responsibility on the insured...who's taxed disproportionally for it....who's not taxed for it...who benefits....who doesn't....what's covered....what's not.....
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« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2008, 07:51:03 PM »

Quote
I am so tired of hearing what everybody is entitled to.

My wife was born a diabetic. She is fortunate enough to work in a doctor office and has pretty good health insurance. She also has access to meds. She couldn't get insurance anywhere else because of pre-existing conditions.

That doesn't seem fair to me. THAT, we have to do something about, IMO.

excellent point!
i am 110% for universal health care.

everyone deserves to be treated for all conditions whether they are preexisting or people who changed jobs or people who had to take a job that offers no benefits or people who are homeless.

but i am sick of hearing the typical BS about people not deserving it because they need to work for it.

do a search and find out who many people are employed and dont have insurance or mothers who choose to raise their children at home etc...
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« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2008, 08:19:15 PM »

National health works everywhere else, a fact of life taken for granted but not in America, a place so isolated they see health care as untried, uncertain ground, where there is the belief that health care is good as long as no one has to pay taxes for it. This is a country where your citizenship is based on you income. Rich folks have the right to murder and poor folks do not, poor people need to have little or no health coverage so the rich can have more than they need.
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Abraxas
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« Reply #26 on: February 25, 2008, 08:23:53 PM »

America isn't "everywhere else".

I thought you would have figured that out by now?
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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like its from Neptune.
- Noam Chomsky

... you can almost see the high water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
- Hunter S. Thompson
Irwin
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« Reply #27 on: February 25, 2008, 08:33:18 PM »

America isn't "everywhere else".

I thought you would have figured that out by now?

Right, it is a special race of humanity, chosen by God to be ignorant, hate the poor, pay no taxes, be angry and armed all the time and think the world is jealous of this life.
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Abraxas
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« Reply #28 on: February 25, 2008, 10:04:46 PM »

On the contrary. We're a country of fat and unhealthy arrogant individuals who don't trust government with large sums of money and fear any concept of tax hikes.

Go ahead. Tell everyone that universal healthcare isn't actually free and see how many Americans will jump to see 1/3 of their pay check go missing.
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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like its from Neptune.
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... you can almost see the high water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
- Hunter S. Thompson
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« Reply #29 on: February 26, 2008, 06:01:57 AM »

What are we paying for people who show up at the emergency room to get treatment and then don't pay because they can't afford it and couldn't get preventive care?
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