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Author Topic: Universal Healthcare - For or Against?  (Read 2837 times)
Toaster
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« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2008, 06:31:15 AM »

Maybe we could afford to spend tax money on health care if we weren't protecting those silly socialist countries who wank about how America sucks, while basking in the freedom our military affords them.
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« Reply #31 on: February 26, 2008, 06:35:53 AM »

Are you for or against healthcare for all people regardless of their income or ability to pay?

I'm just curious as to where everyone stands on this issue. I'm a little confused as to exactly how Hillary or Barrack are going to makes us pay for it, despite their debates I think they're both covering the truth of exactly what their plans entail financially speaking. So let's just say that everyone pays - through taxes - and starting tomorrow you pay 0$ to go to the doctor, all insurance companies are out of business, and we have universal healthcare with doctors whose primary concerns are with your health, not with giving you prescriptions or tests you don't need. A very idealistic and simplistic version, I know. Are you for or against this idea?

I personally believe that everyone has the right to be treated medically for whatever comes up without fear of going bankrupt whether they work at Wal-mart or on Wall Street, so I am for.

Of course we want everyone to have universal healthcare.  From a moral stance it would seem inhuman to suggest that healthcare should only be available for the privileged. (even though 1 billion in the world don't even have the luxury to argue about it, they have to work on making sure they eat for the day)

But for America is it realistic? 

Unfortunately, the idealistic and simplistic version is nice, and we all want it, but it won't happen.  The problem America faces is completely different than Europe, Japan or Canada.  A nationalized government run healthcare system is too easy an answer that can not account for the actual problem that America faces.

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« Reply #32 on: February 26, 2008, 07:42:14 AM »

America isn't "everywhere else".

I thought you would have figured that out by now?

yeah but he still makes a great point
1 that deserves a better response then just America isn't "everywhere else".
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« Reply #33 on: February 26, 2008, 07:45:51 AM »

I am for universal healthcare for children under the age of 18.

Perhaps a shift could be made at a later time for all people but its too dramatic to encompass everyone immediately IMO.
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« Reply #34 on: February 26, 2008, 12:34:49 PM »

On the contrary. We're a country of fat and unhealthy arrogant individuals who don't trust government with large sums of money and fear any concept of tax hikes.

Go ahead. Tell everyone that universal healthcare isn't actually free and see how many Americans will jump to see 1/3 of their pay check go missing.

You are hysterically irrational. Much more of our paycheck already goes missing because we don't have health care. You are a bright boy, try an economy of scale. A country can and does negotiate vastly lower prices for health care than an individual, that's why medicine in Germany that cost's 30 dollars costs over 200 here. Yes, America is infantile and arrogant and ignorant for screwing themselves on principle, and living in crap rather than admitting the government is better at some things. Somewhere along the line, American babies were never told by their mommies that you can't not do something, just because "WAHHH! I DON' WANNA." Oh, yes, heap on the nonsense of how the economy will be DESTROOOOYED! As if Canada and the EU aren't filthy, stinking rich. I'm sorry you think the crap you spew is logical, but it is right wing propaganda, the poison put in the machine by Reagan. His day is almost gone, thank God. The adults are back and screechy babies like you will just have to shut up and stop helping pharmaceutical companies screw the country over with your dumb "principles."
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« Reply #35 on: February 26, 2008, 01:01:16 PM »

America isn't "everywhere else".

I thought you would have figured that out by now?

yeah but he still makes a great point
1 that deserves a better response then just America isn't "everywhere else".

Really? The Middle East is full of countries that resemble tyrannies... not to mention communist Cuba and China. Those countries seem to be doing alright... and aside from Cuba they're actually blossoming.

You still think it would be a good idea to mimic them?

America isn't like China... and China isn't like Germany... and Germany isn't like Canada...

My point was that just because it works somewhere else doesn't mean it will work here. It's not American arrogance, but rather the understanding that the populations of each country has different issues and motivations and habits and governments... and a blanket system might not work everywhere else.

That's all I was saying.

You are hysterically irrational. Much more of our paycheck already goes missing because we don't have health care. You are a bright boy, try an economy of scale. A country can and does negotiate vastly lower prices for health care than an individual, that's why medicine in Germany that cost's 30 dollars costs over 200 here. Yes, America is infantile and arrogant and ignorant for screwing themselves on principle, and living in crap rather than admitting the government is better at some things. Somewhere along the line, American babies were never told by their mommies that you can't not do something, just because "WAHHH! I DON' WANNA." Oh, yes, heap on the nonsense of how the economy will be DESTROOOOYED! As if Canada and the EU aren't filthy, stinking rich. I'm sorry you think the crap you spew is logical, but it is right wing propaganda, the poison put in the machine by Reagan. His day is almost gone, thank God. The adults are back and screechy babies like you will just have to shut up and stop helping pharmaceutical companies screw the country over with your dumb "principles."

I'm "hysterical irrational"? You ever heard of the "Return" key, you rambling psycho...




I don't really have much else to say, considering you didn't actually make a point in all that.
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« Reply #36 on: February 26, 2008, 08:19:02 PM »

A nationalized government run healthcare system is too easy an answer that can not account for the actual problem that America faces.
And what are these actual problems that invalidate national healthcare?
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« Reply #37 on: February 26, 2008, 09:51:28 PM »

A nationalized government run healthcare system is too easy an answer that can not account for the actual problem that America faces.
And what are these actual problems that invalidate national healthcare?

A billion dollar industry that employs hundred of thousands of employees along with a strong influence over both national and private healthcare facilities adminstration.   

Please tell me how easy it is to get rid of the insurance system in our nation's economy.   

The only problem America faces with healthcare is rising costs.  Costs are rising because of people willingly to drop out of the insurance pool.  In a socialized system you don't have that problem because everyong pays inadvertantly through taxes.  Yet America chose a different route.

I think Hillary had a plan that would be more inclined for saving our healthcare system but mandating people to make payouts to the insurance company of their choice sounds like we are making insurance companies have too much control than they already do.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #38 on: February 27, 2008, 05:45:29 AM »

Hillary said about 20% of the uninsured are 20 year olds who believe they are indestructable......but when you look at the population most associated with risky lifestyles, gang shootings, drugs, speeding, trauma....it's these "indestructables"......many have no job......live with parents or are "students" sucking off their parents teets.......the thing about young people and trauma is they are the ones who have strong hearts and linger for months and years......you don't wanna know how much that costs.......
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« Reply #39 on: February 27, 2008, 05:46:30 AM »

By putting a cap on the amount an insurance company is allowed to charge (based on a person's income) and legislating that they are not allowed to turn anyone down, wouldn't that turn the insurance agencies into government agencies? I mean, what forseeable problems are there with this solution?
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« Reply #40 on: February 27, 2008, 07:00:37 AM »

Please tell me how easy it is to get rid of the insurance system in our nation's economy.   
In my opinion, a state-funded healthcare service should be provided in addition to the existing private system, allowing people choice and maintaining employment. This does reflect the current situation with medicare/medicaid, however this should be greatly expanded to cover all procedures.

Let me add that private health insurance may gradually be "phased out" as the national plan gains prominence and generates its own employment.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2008, 07:03:01 AM by gommi » Logged

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« Reply #41 on: February 27, 2008, 08:28:53 AM »

I am strongly against government run "universal" health care.  The government does nothing but help to inflate the cost of health care and limit the rights and choices of the patients and doctors.


"If you think health care is expensive now, wait till it's free"  --  P.J. O'Rourke
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« Reply #42 on: February 27, 2008, 09:11:02 AM »

How does it limit the doctors and patients choices? What about the people with no health care, they don't have doctors or choices? That seems pretty limited to me.
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« Reply #43 on: February 27, 2008, 09:22:52 AM »

just a though i had while reading the replies....

the way things are now we pay for $50 advils, and who knows what other rip off meds while in the care of the hospitals now. also tons of tests a doctor couldnt even tell us how much it cost.

insurance companies get discounted rates vs people who dont have insurance.

the whole system needs to be fixed and quickly.

i see no better way.

the canidates offer no better way.
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« Reply #44 on: February 27, 2008, 03:31:21 PM »

How does it limit the doctors and patients choices? What about the people with no health care, they don't have doctors or choices? That seems pretty limited to me.

Some doctors (today, even) don't like working with Medicaid cause they don't pay out enough. Plus, if doctor's charge too high a rate, federal health insurance won't pay if you see a doctor like that.

I just think a federal system has too many oppurtunites to fall apart... and it's extremely risky... and I think it's a risk we shouldn't take, ESPECIALLY after an administration that thought it was a good idea to cut taxes AND fight a global war. We can't transition to a massive federal program like this with the economy in the shape it is right now.
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