Abraxas
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"You do not speak for the rest"
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« Reply #30 on: March 19, 2008, 01:10:05 PM » |
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Well, you may not see this on FOX or CNN cause I'm sure they'll just show the same, tired, old videos where they yell "Death to America," but I think this story is whorth sharing. Personally I think it should be headline news... but hey, I'm not a media-mogul. 'Death to Ahmadinejad,' Iranian crowds cryTEHRAN, March 19 (UPI) -- Many Iranian youths rallied in streets across the country, shouting "Death to Ahmadinejad," in celebrations marking the end of the Persian calendar year. The last Wednesday of the Persian calendar is celebrated as the Fire Festival in Iran, with bonfires and firecrackers marking the occasion. In the western city of Ahvaz, angry mobs declared "Freedom is our legitimate right" while demonstrators in the western city of Sanandaj shouted "Death to (Iranian President Mahmoud) Ahmadinejad," Ynetnews reported Wednesday. The police in Tehran were out in force and, though they were met with a barrage of firecrackers, the situation didn't escalate beyond what is typical for the Fire Festival, local reports cited in the news report said. The rest... Thought I should stress the "youths" part... The US can work with this. They can also work with the Democratic protests in Pakistan, Tibet and Myanmar... ... but I'm sure we won't.
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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like its from Neptune. - Noam Chomsky
... you can almost see the high water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back. - Hunter S. Thompson
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Terry Mathis
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« Reply #31 on: March 19, 2008, 01:57:49 PM » |
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It's well known the youth in Iran want a more modern and less restrictive government. Their time will come.
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Its not what they say that bothers me, its what they say that just aint so that does ! - Will Rogers So that we may end the oppression wrought by our own hands.
- Shulman
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Fredledingue
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« Reply #32 on: March 19, 2008, 03:12:11 PM » |
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Abraxas
How the US can work with this? Sent them a postcard? Seriousely what the US can do with youths and protestors? There is nothing they can do.
Never these groups wil be able to overthrow these regimes. Sending them money will make things even worse as they will be seen as "puppets of the US".
What Iran needs is two millions of poeple in the streets and an general push for regime change. As long as a large part of the population believe supertitiousely that mullahcracy is good because it protect morality, there is no hope. As long as one third of the Iranian population are behind Ahmadinejahd and the radicals, nothing will change there. What they need is 90% asking for change.
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 Dr. Zoidberg is jewish (and an important AIPAC donator!) 
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Abraxas
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"You do not speak for the rest"
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« Reply #33 on: March 19, 2008, 07:04:56 PM » |
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How the US can work with this? Sent them a postcard? Seriousely what the US can do with youths and protestors? There is nothing they can do. Well, not bombing them, for a start. Perhaps giving these youths greater air time. Hell, if they can't speak out in Iran, give them a mic from CNN and let them go. Never these groups wil be able to overthrow these regimes. Sending them money will make things even worse as they will be seen as "puppets of the US". Not what I meant. I already saw how well things turned out with the Mujhadeen and Cuba. I would never agree with US involvement of that magnitude. What Iran needs is two millions of poeple in the streets and an general push for regime change. As long as a large part of the population believe supertitiousely that mullahcracy is good because it protect morality, there is no hope. As long as one third of the Iranian population are behind Ahmadinejahd and the radicals, nothing will change there. What they need is 90% asking for change.
They need a taller "soap box".
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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like its from Neptune. - Noam Chomsky
... you can almost see the high water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back. - Hunter S. Thompson
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Peisithanatos
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« Reply #34 on: March 28, 2008, 03:55:18 AM » |
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Iran holds the US presidency right now. Tehran can sink McCain in bad news that will make the notion "the surge has worked" a sarcasm. McCain is very lucky that Iranian mullahs are unbelievably peaceful people who refuse to use Iraqis as gunmeat to kill Americans. For all practical reasons, Iran has decisive word in the US election. Iran has every ability to sink McCain like an old rusty battleship by creating a derisive background for Cain's militaristic patriotic sy(m)phony.
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a big pile of bs covered with a thick layer of sugar
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Ahkenaten
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« Reply #35 on: March 31, 2008, 06:57:30 AM » |
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How the US can work with this? Sent them a postcard? Seriousely what the US can do with youths and protestors? There is nothing they can do.
Never these groups wil be able to overthrow these regimes. Sending them money will make things even worse as they will be seen as "puppets of the US". <shrugs> by ignoring them? The reason the youth won't be successful is because the right-wing elements in Iran are fed and supplied with a reason to exist by the right-wing elements in the West. Bush says, "We might need to bomb Iran because i can't think of any other way and I can't think of anything else more iportant". Alternatively the right-wing elements in Iran can point to an admittedly scary individuals like Cheny or Bush and say to their people, "See? You need a tough talking right-wing party to protect you". And it works. The two systems feed off each other. Ignore Iran and the original reason for the Mullahs disappears -- along with their power. Ahk
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« Last Edit: April 01, 2008, 07:57:22 PM by Ahkenaten »
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Fredledingue
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« Reply #36 on: April 16, 2008, 12:20:24 PM » |
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Akh, I agree with that. But the question was not "How not to nerve right-wing powers in Iran" but "How to help anonymous 18 years old demonstrators who are not grouped into an organisation listed as official partner for the CIA and who don't even have a headquarter in the US?"
The answer to this question, for the amricans is "We can't do that.".
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 Dr. Zoidberg is jewish (and an important AIPAC donator!) 
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kactus
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« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2008, 08:04:15 AM » |
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Abraxas
Never these groups wil be able to overthrow these regimes. Sending them money will make things even worse as they will be seen as "puppets of the US". It's not a group of people/ organisations as such that may be seen as puppets of the US. It's the typically puppet middle eastern governments to serve the US interest in the region. This has been a long term US policy. What Iran needs is two millions of poeple in the streets and an general push for regime change. As long as a large part of the population believe supertitiousely that mullahcracy is good because it protect morality, there is no hope. As long as one third of the Iranian population are behind Ahmadinejahd and the radicals, nothing will change there. What they need is 90% asking for change.
What Iran needs is no interferance from outside powers in its internal affairs like in 1953 (the coup of democratically elected goverment of Mossadegh by CIA) and 1978 (revolution that saw the downfall of Shah widely regarded as the US puppet that no longer served the US interest only to be replaced by mullahs in Iran). There is a great mistrust in the history of the two nations and quite rightly so. It's simple, so long as this lunatic government in the White House keep threatening Iran with war there will be a majority of iranians inside and outside the country supporting an otherwise unpopular government. Any change for Iran must be evolutionary and come from within with no interferance from outside world.
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« Last Edit: April 19, 2008, 04:13:13 PM by kactus »
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Fredledingue
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« Reply #38 on: April 19, 2008, 11:06:29 AM » |
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I agree. Kosovo and Iraq qre shining exqmple of the bankrupcy of such policy.
It's unclear at this time how many Iranian fear the regime too much to protest, how many don't care and how many believe in the superiority of the Islamic moral (over decent living conditions)...
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 Dr. Zoidberg is jewish (and an important AIPAC donator!) 
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Ahkenaten
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« Reply #39 on: April 23, 2008, 09:21:07 PM » |
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How to help anonymous 18 years old demonstrators who are not grouped into an organisation listed as official partner for the CIA and who don't even have a headquarter in the US?" Well that's the thing Fred. In all honesty since when have young radicals every really needed help from the CIA? There have been youth or new generation-inspired revolutions since forever and will continue long after the CIA is the CI- "Who?". All the CIA ever seems to do is find the loudest most violent one and pick him (crazy helps too), so why not just try a different approach for a change? Just sayin'. Just sit back. Put your feet up. Ignore the Mouth. Save some money for a change. Ahk
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« Last Edit: April 23, 2008, 09:25:02 PM by Ahkenaten »
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Dormouse
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« Reply #40 on: April 24, 2008, 08:11:49 AM » |
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The best thing the USA can do if the USA wants to see some democratic improvements in Iran is to say the heck out.
That means no CIA funding of opposition groups, no CIA covert games, no CIA involvement with exiles, and no US propaganda/disinformation campaigns in Iran.
These are the policies the USA are already using and so far have only managed to almost wipe out the 'reformist' faction in Iran and have fully entrenched the 'conservative' faction.
Democratic progress in Iran is limited by US actions. So long as the US plays the warmonger game or the Iranian subversion game, Iran will swing 'conservative'.
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Fredledingue
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« Reply #41 on: April 24, 2008, 01:33:20 PM » |
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I don't think the US is the only political factor in Iran. US or no US, the islamist clergy will always want power.
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 Dr. Zoidberg is jewish (and an important AIPAC donator!) 
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Dormouse
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« Reply #42 on: April 24, 2008, 02:31:50 PM » |
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I don't think the US is the only political factor in Iran. US or no US, the islamist clergy will always want power.
I disagree with your assertion that Islamic clergy always want power. For example, the Grand Ayatollah of Iraq (Sistani) has formally stated that he doesn't want the clerics to rule in Iraq and this is the general policy amongst Iraqi Shi'ites, a position notably shared by Muqtada Sadr. And Iran is officially the same - the clerics do not rule directly, only in an advisory capacity (officialy speaking). Their outward power is reflected by the power of the 'conservative' faction in the elected legislature. The electoral strength of the 'conservatives' seems to rise or fall in direct proportion to the amount of animosity and covert political operations coming from the US. The 'reformist' faction was rising in Iran throughout the 1990's after the Iran-Iraq war. That's the opportunity the US government took to increase their engagement with Iranian exile groups and Iranian reform groups. US support caused an immediate drop in support for the 'reformers' and a consequent rise in support for the 'conservatives'. This trend continues to the present day.
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Mingbearer
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« Reply #43 on: April 26, 2008, 12:48:04 PM » |
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It is a time to bomb Iran (as much as necessary) to solve the Middle-east's problems.
A reminder of the effectiveness of the West's nuclear arsenal might also put off any more dodgy states trying to acquire those kinds of missiles (Hiroshima and Nagasaki kept the peace - ha! ha! - for fifty years).
In this case, the opportunity is a target. And will cause less lose of life (again like nuking the Japanese homeland).
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« Last Edit: April 26, 2008, 12:50:12 PM by Mingbearer »
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I bear Ming
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Abraxas
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« Reply #44 on: April 26, 2008, 07:34:17 PM » |
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It is a time to bomb Iran (as much as necessary) to solve the Middle-east's problems.
A reminder of the effectiveness of the West's nuclear arsenal might also put off any more dodgy states trying to acquire those kinds of missiles (Hiroshima and Nagasaki kept the peace - ha! ha! - for fifty years).
In this case, the opportunity is a target. And will cause less lose of life (again like nuking the Japanese homeland). If you're an American, please refrain from posting. You're making us look stupid.
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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like its from Neptune. - Noam Chomsky
... you can almost see the high water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back. - Hunter S. Thompson
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