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Gojira
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« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2007, 01:48:47 PM » |
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And if Fascism was rational, then we would be speaking German here.  Not necessarily. Fascism is nationalistic rather than internationalistic. It adapts to each nation as to that nation's particular needs. OswaldTheOsprey Oswald, are you in favor of Robert Heinlan's idea of a global federation as illustrated in his book "Starship Troopers?" I am more interested in individual nations controlling their own destiny. Social Fascism is the type of government I prefer as it is both nationalistic and socialistic (not National Socialism as it evolved in 1930s Germany however). Hope I answered your question. OswaldTheOsprey Yep. |
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Our democracy has created an environment of indecision at times of impending crisis.
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Major Zee Lee
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« Reply #31 on: September 27, 2007, 02:55:55 AM » |
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And if Fascism was rational, then we would be speaking German here. Not necessarily. Fascism is nationalistic rather than internationalistic. It adapts to each nation as to that nation's particular needs. OswaldTheOsprey A consequence of nationalism is fear of other nationalisms, which eventually ends in conflict. If conflicting nationalisms are linked to independent nations, then you got international conflict as consequence of an exaggerated concern about the own nation. |
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Do not take life too seriously; nobody lives to tell.
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Factinista
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« Reply #32 on: September 27, 2007, 12:17:14 PM » |
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Nationalism itself is irrational. The effect of nationalism is to blind a nations citizens to the ill's of it's society and government. If you base a government(fascism) on an irrational system then you will have an irrational government.
Still, I think we are missing a point on rationality.
Considering that the the majority of our actions and emotions are run by unconscious drives it appears that we are at the most basic level irrational. However, it is possible to train yourself to be more and more thought provoking and rational. So, if we can train ourselves to question everything and to think for ourselves then it should be possible to improve our society by rational thought.
Granted that our politicians and buisness leaders don't manipulate the publics irrational thoughts...
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IamMe
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« Reply #33 on: September 27, 2007, 12:26:03 PM » |
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If everybody was rational, anarchy would be the best system. bullshit! |
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\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell
If you strike me down I shall become more dead than you can ever imagine.
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IamMe
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« Reply #34 on: September 27, 2007, 12:30:24 PM » |
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Nationalism itself is irrational. The effect of nationalism is to blind a nations citizens to the ill's of it's society and government. If you base a government(fascism) on an irrational system then you will have an irrational government.
Nationalism is essentially another religion. |
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\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell
If you strike me down I shall become more dead than you can ever imagine.
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Abraxas
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« Reply #35 on: September 27, 2007, 02:06:36 PM » |
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If everybody was rational, anarchy would be the best system. Rationality does not denote intelegence. Just because an individual makes the most reational decision does not mean they made the most intelegent. I think leadership is required, especially with populations of countries being what they are (US > 300 million) It's interesting though. I have held the belief that humans progressively become more rational as time goes on. In the early stages, concepts like religion were created in order to keep the irrational majority from remaining, well, irrational. Further down the road, different (and better) religions were created for the more rational, but still wholly irrational, majority. Also, better forms of government have evolved with the percentage of rational people growing.
If this keeps going, then in about a thousand years or so the majority of people will be rational, which would lead to either straight up democracies, or communism (ones that work). Plus religions will either die down or new ones will be created (for the more rational). One religion I came across seemed interesting; Foundationism. What they do is sift through other religions and remove common themes that exist in all of them. |
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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like its from Neptune.
- Noam Chomsky
... you can almost see the high water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
- Hunter S. Thompson
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bringbackwigs
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« Reply #36 on: September 27, 2007, 06:37:47 PM » |
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If everybody was rational, anarchy would be the best system. bullshit! How rational. Rationality does not denote intelegence.
Just because an individual makes the most reational decision does not mean they made the most intelegent. I think leadership is required, especially with populations of countries being what they are (US > 300 million) Yeah, and this has nothing to do with intelligence, it has to do with rationality. Where did I say anything about intelligence? |
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In religion and politics, people\\\\\\\\\'s beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination. - Mark Twain  |
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Abraxas
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« Reply #37 on: September 27, 2007, 06:44:56 PM » |
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But anarchy would only work if everyone were intelegent as well.
Personally, I don't think anarchy would work unless everyone involved were rational AND intelegent.
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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like its from Neptune.
- Noam Chomsky
... you can almost see the high water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
- Hunter S. Thompson
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bringbackwigs
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« Reply #38 on: September 27, 2007, 06:48:51 PM » |
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Says who? Example:
An unintelligent person can't figure out a way to make money. However, being the rational person that we all are, said person does not go rob a 7-11, but continues to figure out a way to make money. This dose of rationality will actually cure unintelligence.
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In religion and politics, people\\\\\\\\\'s beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination. - Mark Twain |
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Abraxas
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« Reply #39 on: September 27, 2007, 06:55:53 PM » |
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What if he runs out of options? Would the rational responce be to starve to death or to take money from those who don't need it? And the other side: a rich person has money. What would a rational responce be? Save what he needs and give away the rest? Or stock up and garuntee a good life for his children and children's children?
Many arguments have 2 moral decisions... otherwise, there wouldn't be debate. Look at the issue of abortion. If the "right" thing to do was so easy to see then there would be no debate at all.
Unless you think everyone who disagrees with you is irational.
What I'm saying is that rationality and intelegence are not the same thing because if they were, choices would be far easier to make. Some times the most intellegence decision is not always the most rational and vice versa.
That's all I'm saying.
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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like its from Neptune.
- Noam Chomsky
... you can almost see the high water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
- Hunter S. Thompson
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bringbackwigs
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« Reply #40 on: September 27, 2007, 07:10:26 PM » |
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We went from rationality to intelligence to morality...
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In religion and politics, people\\\\\\\\\'s beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination. - Mark Twain |
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Abraxas
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« Reply #41 on: September 27, 2007, 07:22:37 PM » |
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I talk too much and go OT.
Sorry.
I just think morality, rationality and intelegence sometimes prompt conflicting choices... which is why we have choice in the first place.
Alright... NOW I sound like a phylosphical jerk...
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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like its from Neptune.
- Noam Chomsky
... you can almost see the high water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
- Hunter S. Thompson
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bringbackwigs
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« Reply #42 on: September 27, 2007, 07:24:38 PM » |
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In religion and politics, people\\\\\\\\\'s beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination. - Mark Twain |
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Abraxas
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« Reply #43 on: September 27, 2007, 07:30:38 PM » |
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Ignore me.
It's better that way.
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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like its from Neptune.
- Noam Chomsky
... you can almost see the high water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
- Hunter S. Thompson
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bringbackwigs
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« Reply #44 on: September 27, 2007, 07:51:49 PM » |
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I'll do my best.  |
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In religion and politics, people\\\\\\\\\'s beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination. - Mark Twain |
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