bringbackwigs
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« Reply #120 on: March 25, 2008, 11:04:07 AM » |
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The idea of pornography "abusing" women is quite hysterical. With the exception of the sub-genres where people are literally being abused (I'm sure I don't have to go into great detail of what those are), there is nothing wrong with it.
First off, for all you feminists, stop acting like women are the only ones in the movies. I'll take a quote from Orgazmo (don't watch it if you're on the other side of the fence here):
Lisa: You pig, you're responsible for degrading all of those women.
Clark: Men are equally degradable in pornographic films.
Lisa: Men are always in a position of power.
Rodgers: They're the ones who want the product so bad, they're the victims.
Lisa: Well, it exploits men by exploiting women.
Clark: Hence, it exploits people.
Not to mention how many pornographic movies there are in this world where women can't be found in any scene. This all goes for prostitution as well. So I don't want to hear anything about how women get treated and the rest of that nonsense, because it doesn't make any sense. You feminists? Sigh...label me then, go on.  The study details how abuse is formed and how it progresses. You can read all of it if you are interested, but expect you will not as the guilt trip may not appeal to you male chauvinists  Thank you for posting Organza or w/e his handle is...Although I am one of few here who does not "use" porn and so I do not know him as you do, it seems he may not be such a respected or reliable source as a Presentation to the Special Seminar on Trafficking, Prostitution and the Global Sex Industry, of the UN Working Group on Contemporary Forms of Slavery... ..so I will go with their assessment... I am not bashing you, wigs. But I think there is this other view of porn which men do not want to accept... all I can do is put it to you and ask you to consider. Like I said, you have to exclude the slavery/corrupt parts of the trade, since that is abuse in itself, with prostitution just being the medium through which it happens. It doesn't show how P&P, by itself, is morally wrong, only how current laws and stigmas force it into a back-alley slavery type state. Which, in a way, proves my point. BTW, Orgazmo is a movie, not a person. |
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In religion and politics, people\\\\\\\\\'s beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination. - Mark Twain  |
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Viv.
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« Reply #121 on: March 25, 2008, 11:19:49 AM » |
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The idea of pornography "abusing" women is quite hysterical. With the exception of the sub-genres where people are literally being abused (I'm sure I don't have to go into great detail of what those are), there is nothing wrong with it.
First off, for all you feminists, stop acting like women are the only ones in the movies. I'll take a quote from Orgazmo (don't watch it if you're on the other side of the fence here):
Lisa: You pig, you're responsible for degrading all of those women.
Clark: Men are equally degradable in pornographic films.
Lisa: Men are always in a position of power.
Rodgers: They're the ones who want the product so bad, they're the victims.
Lisa: Well, it exploits men by exploiting women.
Clark: Hence, it exploits people.
Not to mention how many pornographic movies there are in this world where women can't be found in any scene. This all goes for prostitution as well. So I don't want to hear anything about how women get treated and the rest of that nonsense, because it doesn't make any sense. You feminists? Sigh...label me then, go on. The study details how abuse is formed and how it progresses. You can read all of it if you are interested, but expect you will not as the guilt trip may not appeal to you male chauvinists Thank you for posting Organza or w/e his handle is...Although I am one of few here who does not "use" porn and so I do not know him as you do, it seems he may not be such a respected or reliable source as a Presentation to the Special Seminar on Trafficking, Prostitution and the Global Sex Industry, of the UN Working Group on Contemporary Forms of Slavery... ..so I will go with their assessment... I am not bashing you, wigs. But I think there is this other view of porn which men do not want to accept... all I can do is put it to you and ask you to consider. Like I said, you have to exclude the slavery/corrupt parts of the trade, since that is abuse in itself, with prostitution just being the medium through which it happens. It doesn't show how P&P, by itself, is morally wrong, only how current laws and stigmas force it into a back-alley slavery type state. Which, in a way, proves my point. BTW, Orgazmo is a movie, not a person. I missed how it proves your point. Can you clarify? I don't accept that the parts of the trade which don't fit your theory are dismissable. Orgazmo...I don't wish to know that... |
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bringbackwigs
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« Reply #122 on: March 25, 2008, 11:46:53 AM » |
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Because the fact that prostitution is illegal and looked down upon pushes it into places where things like slavery are more likely to occur. There's a lot less slaves in accounting. So that part of it has nothing to do with prostitution in itself, therefore prostitution cannot be called morally wrong due to it.
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In religion and politics, people\\\\\\\\\'s beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination. - Mark Twain |
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Viv.
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« Reply #123 on: March 25, 2008, 01:56:42 PM » |
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Because the fact that prostitution is illegal and looked down upon pushes it into places where things like slavery are more likely to occur. There's a lot less slaves in accounting. So that part of it has nothing to do with prostitution in itself, therefore prostitution cannot be called morally wrong due to it.
It is legal in Holland. They currently cannot staff the brothels and this has caused an increase in human trafficking. I assume, although I don't know for sure, that this staff shortage is because prostitution is not something women want to do even when it's legalised. |
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bringbackwigs
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« Reply #124 on: March 25, 2008, 02:04:48 PM » |
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Well, I don't want to work at McDonald's, as nobody does, but it doesn't have anything to do with it's stance on the morality ladder.
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In religion and politics, people\\\\\\\\\'s beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination. - Mark Twain |
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IamMe
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« Reply #125 on: March 25, 2008, 02:39:01 PM » |
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That is seriously patronising to women: the idea that they are not capable of deciding for themselves whether they want to be a prostitute or not, whether or not they consider it demeaning (it actually doesn't matter what we think) and whether or not they want to exercise their rights as human beings and custodians of their own bodies to engage in consensual sexual activity that happens to have a price tag.
You have essentially said that these women are too stupid, or too poor to make these decisions for themselves. I find this intresting from someone who essentially advocates a government controlled socialist state for things like healthcare........BECAUSE of the idea that people "are not capable of deciding for themselves" the state of their circumstances....... You obviously haven't read anything I said. Healthcare is an entitlement - a right. It has nothing whatsoever to do with people not being able to decide for themselves and everything to do with the state's obligation to provide basic services to its inhabitants. Is this to be interpreted as a flat out denial that the circumstances that leads one into prostitution are the same ones that lead to alcoholism, drug abuse, criminal behavior, homlessness and poverty?
The very things you advocate the NEED for socialized healthcare?
What the hell are you talking about? So, I guess little girls grow up and say "I want to be a whore when I grow up"........but don't say "I want to be homeless or drug addicted or alcoholic or poor or a criminal?"
Little girls don't grow up saying "I want to pick up trash for a living!" or "I want to work in a dump" or "I want to unclog blockages in sewage sytems" etc. What's your point? Can't it be a whore is a whore because she sells ALL she has in order to survive?
First of all, the use of the word "whore" only contributes to the dehumanisation that you and others complain of. Second, she doesn't "sell all she has" - she rents out her genitals. (Their hers, she can do what she wants with them) Third, not all prostitutes are homeless drug addicts who can't get any other job. Ask Elliot Spitzer. Some choice.
So, all of a sudden you are against people being forced by circumstances to do a job they don't like. I have used porn - and I totally resent the accusation that I am some sort of abusor. Funny......alcoholics say the very same thing. Perhaps you can list the virtues of pornography? -Provides employment. -Provides titillation. |
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« Reply #126 on: March 25, 2008, 02:47:58 PM » |
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Because the fact that prostitution is illegal and looked down upon pushes it into places where things like slavery are more likely to occur. There's a lot less slaves in accounting. So that part of it has nothing to do with prostitution in itself, therefore prostitution cannot be called morally wrong due to it.
It is legal in Holland. They currently cannot staff the brothels and this has caused an increase in human trafficking. I assume, although I don't know for sure, that this staff shortage is because prostitution is not something women want to do even when it's legalised. Slavery is slavery, whether it is sex slavery or picking cotton. The fact that women are trafficked does not make prostitution inherently wrong - it just means the cops aren't being tight enough with their checks. |
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\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell
If you strike me down I shall become more dead than you can ever imagine.
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Viv.
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« Reply #127 on: March 25, 2008, 03:20:53 PM » |
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Well, I don't want to work at McDonald's, as nobody does, but it doesn't have anything to do with it's stance on the morality ladder.
It is not the same. Your point is that illegality pushes the status down and causes ill treatment, I think. Holland legalised and still it is low status. It makes a difference, but not enough to raise it to the level of respectability and there is still the issue of human trafficking, coercion, drugs...all the same old. |
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Patton
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« Reply #128 on: March 25, 2008, 03:54:22 PM » |
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Healthcare is an entitlement - a right. Can I see the statute that makes it a "right" or "entitlement?" Lacking that, it will remain an opinion.....and a complete deflation of the argument. Little girls don't grow up saying "I want to pick up trash for a living!" or "I want to work in a dump" or "I want to unclog blockages in sewage sytems" etc.
What's your point? What is illegal or immoral about anything you listed? These can be jobs that have advancement opportunities within respective professions or charities......certainly something that can be used on a resume' - she rents out her genitals. (Their hers, she can do what she wants with them) Nice tactic.....like putting lipstick on a pig. ...not all prostitutes are homeless drug addicts who can't get any other job. Ask Elliot Spitzer. I'll go out on a limb and say the "homeless drug addicts who can't get any other job" VASLTLY outnumber the whores who service Governers. The scale is tilted a little more to my point. -Provides employment.
-Provides titillation. Nice try. vir·tue /ˈvɜrtʃu/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[vur-choo] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. moral excellence; goodness; righteousness.
2. conformity of one's life and conduct to moral and ethical principles; uprightness; rectitude.
3. chastity; virginity: to lose one's virtue.
4. a particular moral excellence. Compare cardinal virtues, natural virtue, theological virtue.
5. a good or admirable quality or property: the virtue of knowing one's weaknesses.
6. effective force; power or potency: a charm with the virtue of removing warts.
7. virtues, an order of angels. Compare angel (def. 1).
8. manly excellence; valor.
—Idioms
9. by or in virtue of, by reason of; because of: to act by virtue of one's legitimate authority.
10. make a virtue of necessity, to make the best of a difficult or unsatisfactory situation.The "employment" is illegal and violates Federal and State tax and employment law......and i don't think "titillation" warrants an answer. |
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Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best; it removes all that is base. All men are afraid in battle. The coward is the one who lets his fear overcome his sense of duty. Duty is the essence of manhood
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bringbackwigs
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« Reply #129 on: March 25, 2008, 04:04:12 PM » |
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Ah, fuck it. Yes, prostitution is evil and so much worse than all the legal things in this world that go unnoticed due to its status. People have no rights to their bodies, sex is something that should be repressed until the end of time, blah blah blah blah.
Just like with the drug argument, I've grown too tired and have become jaded to the fact that I was simply born way too early in humans' evolution to enjoy a world where people stop making up morals.
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In religion and politics, people\\\\\\\\\'s beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination. - Mark Twain |
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Patton
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« Reply #130 on: March 25, 2008, 04:21:29 PM » |
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You seem surprised there are people that exist who believe in something called morality.....
Do you place limitations on what is acceptable and unnacceptable behavior?
Then you suffer from it too......your argument is just where to draw the lines.
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Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best; it removes all that is base. All men are afraid in battle. The coward is the one who lets his fear overcome his sense of duty. Duty is the essence of manhood
-George S. Patton
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Biker Dude
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« Reply #131 on: March 25, 2008, 06:20:53 PM » |
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What is illegal or immoral about anything you listed?
These can be jobs that have advancement opportunities within respective professions or charities......certainly something that can be used on a resume'
Immoral is also an opinion. Illegal is true. Because the law is stuck in th '50's. - she rents out her genitals. (Their hers, she can do what she wants with them) Nice tactic.....like putting lipstick on a pig. But true. I have not seen one valid argument for governmental regulation over a persons body. Other than that some people find it immoral. In my view you are the one putting lipstick on a pig. The pig being governmental interference. ...not all prostitutes are homeless drug addicts who can't get any other job. Ask Elliot Spitzer. I'll go out on a limb and say the "homeless drug addicts who can't get any other job" VASLTLY outnumber the whores who service Governers. The scale is tilted a little more to my point. And the illegality of it forces it this way. Based on antiquated ideas of morality. |
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 Who will watch the watchers?Now that it is over, what are we going to talk about? |
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bringbackwigs
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« Reply #132 on: March 25, 2008, 06:31:42 PM » |
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You seem surprised there are people that exist who believe in something called morality.....
Do you place limitations on what is acceptable and unnacceptable behavior?
Then you suffer from it too......your argument is just where to draw the lines.
What I find unacceptable is behavior that directly harms another. |
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Patton
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« Reply #133 on: March 25, 2008, 07:28:53 PM » |
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What is illegal or immoral about anything you listed?
These can be jobs that have advancement opportunities within respective professions or charities......certainly something that can be used on a resume'
Immoral is also an opinion. Illegal is true. Because the law is stuck in th '50's. - she rents out her genitals. (Their hers, she can do what she wants with them) Nice tactic.....like putting lipstick on a pig. But true. I have not seen one valid argument for governmental regulation over a persons body. Other than that some people find it immoral. In my view you are the one putting lipstick on a pig. The pig being governmental interference. ...not all prostitutes are homeless drug addicts who can't get any other job. Ask Elliot Spitzer. I'll go out on a limb and say the "homeless drug addicts who can't get any other job" VASLTLY outnumber the whores who service Governers. The scale is tilted a little more to my point. And the illegality of it forces it this way. Based on antiquated ideas of morality. It's simple then....change the laws....but be aware that "antiquated ideas of morality" is an opinion also. Check. |
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Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best; it removes all that is base. All men are afraid in battle. The coward is the one who lets his fear overcome his sense of duty. Duty is the essence of manhood
-George S. Patton
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Patton
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« Reply #134 on: March 25, 2008, 07:30:35 PM » |
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You seem surprised there are people that exist who believe in something called morality.....
Do you place limitations on what is acceptable and unnacceptable behavior?
Then you suffer from it too......your argument is just where to draw the lines.
What I find unacceptable is behavior that directly harms another. "Harm" would be in the "eye of the beholder" and is subject to yet.....more opinions. |
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Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best; it removes all that is base. All men are afraid in battle. The coward is the one who lets his fear overcome his sense of duty. Duty is the essence of manhood
-George S. Patton
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