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Author Topic: Here we go again!  (Read 822 times)
Jericoacoara
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« on: March 08, 2008, 07:51:42 PM »

If you thought that Denmark had a hard time with the cartoons, watch this space with Netherlands.

Zany Dutch MP Geert Wilders(an influential right winger) has released his own anti islam film. Dutch television has banned it from being shown on television however it will hit the internet soon. And when it does,presumably the same thing will happen to Netherlands as what happened to Denmark. Riots, boycott of goods, embassy threads, protests, cars being set alight etc.

The Netherlands government is extremely nervous and with good reason. They have even more reason to be nervous than Denmark, for two main reasons.

1)They have a higher muslim percentage
2)They have troops in Afghanistan at the present stage.

I keep saying this but it all comes down to common sense. If Netherlands and other european countries had maintained normal common sense immigration policies with muslims, then none of this would have happened and they wouldn't be cowering in fear over every little anti muslim action or statement that one of their citizens makes.

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Last Friday, during his weekly press conference, Balkenende asked Geert Wilders to stop and think of the consequences of releasing his anti-Islam film. That political signal was well-received in Egypt.

Geert Wilders' controversial film is casting a long shadow. In the Netherlands, the film has been discussed for months already, even though nothing is known about its exact contents. It's unclear whether the film is going to be broadcast on TV, or only via the Internet. But what's certain is that Wilders will deliver a clear anti-Islam message in the film. And, just as with the Danish cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed, that's going to lead to a commotion, not only in the Netherlands but around the world.
Violent reactions
Dutch companies fear losing business in Islamic countries. Dutch embassy staff abroad fear disturbances. And Prime Minister Balkenende warned last Friday that the film - as soon as it's released - will lead to violent reactions. As an example, he mentioned threats by the Taliban to kill Dutch military personnel in Afghanistan.

http://www.radionetherlands.nl/currentaffairs/region/netherlands/080304-wilders-film-diplomacy-mc

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Wilders, a threat to freedom of expression in Europe
In the Netherlands, the populist deputy Geert Wilders is threatening to broadcast his anti-Muslim film soon. Numerous Muslim countries have already warned the Dutch government that the broadcasting of the film could have perilous consequences. The Italian editorialist Francesco Merlo reacts to the polemic. "Is it possible that we Westerners will have to give in to the threats and ban the film simply because the thesis of the film is not to the taste of ayatollahs, imams and fundamentalists? A film that has yet to be released, that nobody has seen, but that is already endangering the world's security ... . However, promoting mediocre works of art, films and books that are gratuitously blasphemous and lift unsavoury characters such as Wilders to the rank of persecuted artists, is a way of killing freedom of expression ... ."


http://europe.courrierinternational.com/eurotopics/article.asp?langue=uk&publication=07/03/2008&cat=POLITICS&pi=6

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AUSTRALIAN and Dutch troops in Afghanistan are bracing for increased Taliban attacks and possible mass protests triggered by an anti-Islamic film made by a far-right Dutch politician.

Even before going to air, the film has added a new risk to an already complex environment confronting the troops based at Camp Holland in Oruzgan province.

The film is the work of Geert Wilders, a maverick MP with bleached bouffant hair who has a constant police guard — a result of his campaign against what he calls the "creeping tyranny of Islamisation" in the Netherlands.

The latest vehicle for his campaign is a 15-minute film that no one has seen and Dutch TV has refused to air. It is due to be launched on the internet this month.

Mr Wilders says the film — titled Fitna, an Arabic word used to describe strife or discord — aims to reveal why the Islamic holy book, the Koran, is so "terrible" and why it is necessary to fight against Islam.

"I hope that it will open people's eyes to the fact that the Koran should be banned like (Adolf Hitler's) Mein Kampf," he told a Dutch news agency.

Last week a Taliban spokesman warned of increased attacks on Dutch forces if the film goes to air. The Taliban have no reason to discriminate between Dutch and Australian troops, whom they regard as "infidel crusaders".

Oruzgan is one of Afghanistan's poorest provinces, and few people have radios, let alone the internet. But the media-savvy Taliban do, and international forces fear they may use the film to inflame local sentiment against foreign troops.

Already there have been protests against the film elsewhere in Afghanistan in a controversy that recalls the response across the Islamic world to the publication by a Danish newspaper in 2005 of cartoons seen by some Muslims as blasphemous. Danish newspapers republished one of the cartoons last month, sparking new protests in Afghanistan and elsewhere.

The Netherlands last week raised its national risk level of a terrorist attack to "substantial", the second-highest level, partly in response to Mr Wilders' film.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/dutch-mp-on-the-nose-with-troops/2008/03/08/1204780131533.html

BTW, the picture of Mr Wilders in the last link(the age) is not exactly the most flattering of him  laugh
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kactus
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« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2008, 08:16:43 PM »

Hypothetrical question Jeri and I am not trying the devil's advocate here but just invoke some thoughts. Do you think if we had the immigration under control in Netherlands and elsewhere in Europe there would still have been a demand to produce such movies?

By the way I do think this comment is a bit OTT and unnecessary:

"I hope that it will open people's eyes to the fact that the Koran should be banned like (Adolf Hitler's) Mein Kampf," he told a Dutch news agency.

If you look at americans they are quite devout christians and would take religion seriously. In contrast here in Europe people do not take religion as seriously and such issues are less of a controversy IMHO.
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Jericoacoara
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« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2008, 08:42:26 PM »

Hypothetrical question Jeri and I am not trying the devil's advocate here but just invoke some thoughts. Do you think if we had the immigration under control in Netherlands and elsewhere in Europe there would still have been a demand to produce such movies?

Probably not. The reason why Wilders has so much support is because many dutch people feel aliented by their own government and out of desperation align themselves with right wingers, as they feel they are the only people who will look after them.

It is a sad situation. IMO Europe has great swings from the right to the left and back again.

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By the way I do think this comment is a bit OTT and unnecessary:

"I hope that it will open people's eyes to the fact that the Koran should be banned like (Adolf Hitler's) Mein Kampf," he told a Dutch news agency.

I agree. I havn't seen the movie so i can't really comment but it wouldn't surprise me if it was offensive.

Just to clarify myself, I am not a fan of these right wingers like Wilders. But IMO if Europe had of had more moderate governments, then Wilders wouldn't have been elected in the first place.

The freedom of speech is a part of the argument here. But personally, I think the bigger picture is the state of European Countries and the state of fear. They are scared witless of saying something to offend islam and try to facilitate their daily business without offending anyone. I mean, what sort of state of affairs is that a way to run a country?? That is the issue that bewilders me at times.


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Viv.
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« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2008, 08:51:12 AM »

IMO that is not the situation here in the UK...

This is a multicultural society and Muslims are included in that.  The aim is to respect the views of all.  It is not fear-based.

There is an uneasy balance, though.  Some think we are too keen to do that and are losing our own culture and they will dig in if it is too overt.   This was demonstrated by the recent row over Sharia law, where an Archbishop suggested this law must be adopted into UK law in order to accomodate Muslims.

The backlash against this suggestion was pretty bad, the Archbishop was totally slated...an example from the UK press:

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Uproar over Archbishop's sharia law stance
The Archbishop of Canterbury has been widely criticised after he called for aspects of Islamic sharia law to be adopted in Britain.

Quote
Your View: Is Sharia law in Britain unavoidable?
Damian Thompson: Williams' authority is in tatters
Leader: The archbishop's inept intervention
Dr Rowan Williams said that it "seems inevitable" that elements of the Muslim law, such as divorce proceedings, would be incorporated into British legislation.
   
The Archbishop's controversial stance has received widespread criticism from Christian and secular groups, the head of the equality watchdog, several high-profile Muslims and MPs from all parties.

Amid the storm of protest, Downing Street moved quickly to distance itself from the Archbishop's remarks, insisting that British law would and should remain based on British values.

A spokesman for Mr Brown said: "Our general position is that sharia law cannot be used as a justification for committing breaches of English law, nor should the principles of sharia law be included in a civil court for resolving contractual disputes. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/02/08/nrowan308.xml

 
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Fredledingue
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« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2008, 01:33:09 PM »

Jeri,

I don't think it has anythong to do with muslim immigration.

But for sure, this is only the start. Muslims will face more and more of anti-islam material from free-lancers in the West.
This movie is not the first anti-islamic video you will find on u-tube.
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machioveli
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« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2008, 04:10:53 PM »

I never been to the Netherlands, so I cannot speak about whether or not this infringes on the lawmakers rights to speak freely. But I would like to know whether websites like Al Jazeera are still able to operate there. If so this is definitely a double standard to appease the sensitive Muslim religion once again.
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neorealist
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« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2008, 09:12:05 PM »

when is the movie coming out Jeri?
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machioveli
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« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2008, 10:36:35 PM »

when is the movie coming out Jeri?

think the release date was March 31. It may be delayed because of this though.
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Jabato
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« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2008, 09:04:48 AM »

I've read it in a local newspaper. But I also read:

The website www.fitnathemovie.com is taken off-line by it's United States based hosting provider "Network Solutions". The website only announced the Islam critical film Fitna of Dutch parliamentary member Geert Wilders and had no content besides a single page with the text: "Fitna, coming soon". Still Network Solutions claims it needs to investigate if the site violates Network Solutions acceptable use policy and replaced the website with a page with the following text:

This site has been suspended while Network Solutions is investigating whether the site's content is in violation of the Network Solutions Acceptable Use Policy. Network Solutions has received a number of complaints regarding this site that are under investigation. For more information about Network Solutions Acceptable Use Policy visit the following URL: http://www.networksolutions.com/legal/aup.jsp

Hosted by Network Solutions.


Did you know that, it seems that, Network Solutions do host the Hezbollah web site? No problems for Hezbollah, but regarding Mr.Geert Wilders, Network Solutions "claims it needs to investigate if the site violates Network Solutions acceptable use policy"
I'm sorry but we should stand right against this sort of censorship.

(Ironic mode on)
"We, western people, are the one to blame for all Muslim terrorisms. We are the one provoking by not respecting other's people belief. The Mahoma cartoons only aim is to offend Muslims in the world. No problem if the one insulted is the Christian God or his Son. If they are the insulted, we have to accept it under the freedom of speech. If the one pictured is Mahoma, we are only looking for problems. We do not respect.
(Ironic mode off)

Appeasement, the sad and bloody appeasement. We haven't learnt after the years.
I guess the first steps would be: the banning of the veil in Europe. As soon as any of the Muslims priests say a word regarding how to beat your wife in order to avoid Police investigations or talking badly about our way of life............................should be sent out of our countries in less than 48 hours.

Saludos


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gommi
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« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2008, 07:16:11 PM »

The Netherlands have been very generous to Iraqi immigrants. Hopefully Muslims can ignore such a minor offense.
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machioveli
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« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2008, 01:56:53 AM »

sad thing is they did not protest the cartoon because there was a bomb as a turban but simply because he drew mohammad himself
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« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2008, 02:12:45 AM »

I guess you guys discovered that the movie is out and that it was a lot less skocking and "offending" then most people thought. It al seems like a trick done by Wilders to focus attention on him and his ideas by having the media severly overhype the media.
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« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2008, 08:27:40 AM »

There are no substantial Muslim riots in protest to this issue at this time for the simple reason that the Muslims apparently have no direct purpose to manufacture a riot at this time.

Rest assured, that if Saudi Arabia has a need for such riots around the world to distract the local Arab media away from some local Saudi political atrocity, they will manufacture world-wide riots then.

And they will cite whatever reason is convenient - even this movie six months from now.  Anything can serve as an excuse if the political will is strong enough.

I thought all this was pretty damn obvious to anyone who did any research at all last time there were 'world-wide' Muslim riots over some silly Danish cartoons. 

What I do find most interesting about this is the number of threads (one on every forum I know of) that all predict the Muslim riots as if they are all looking forward to it.  This is an intersting phenomena.




« Last Edit: April 17, 2008, 08:36:37 AM by Dormouse » Logged

Jericoacoara
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« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2008, 12:41:12 PM »


What I do find most interesting about this is the number of threads (one on every forum I know of) that all predict the Muslim riots as if they are all looking forward to it.  This is an intersting phenomena.

Who is looking forward to it?


The point I was making in my thread is that implementing an immigration strategy with such a lack of thought, the Netherlands government has built a society where they have to be careful what they say or do.

The Netherlands is meant to be the country of total freedom and total liberalim where you can do or say anything you want. And have a look at it. You have one politician walking around with 24/7 bodyguards to avoid being assassinated by radical muslims, just as has happened in the past. And you have the netherlands having to move embassies and go into red alert because of one video being made by a politician. How free is that? They have become a prisoner to the wishes of a minority group.





« Last Edit: April 17, 2008, 12:48:02 PM by Jericoacoara » Logged

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Jericoacoara
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« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2008, 12:43:17 PM »

I guess you guys discovered that the movie is out and that it was a lot less skocking and "offending" then most people thought. It al seems like a trick done by Wilders to focus attention on him and his ideas by having the media severly overhype the media.

This was in todays news.

http://www.abc.net.au/ra/news/stories/200804/s2220360.htm?tab=latest

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The Netherlands has moved its embassy in the Pakistani capital, Islamabad, to a hotel due to security worries following the release of a film by a Dutch politician that is critical of Islam.

The embassy was previously housed in a building in a residential neighbourhood in Islamabad.

The film by anti-immigration lawmaker, Geert Wilders, accuses the Koran of inciting violence.

The film has drawn strong condemnation and protests from Islamic countries, including Pakistan.

An al Qaeda-linked Web site last month called for Wilders' death and an increase in attacks on Dutch soldiers in Afghanistan.
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